Familiar: Speak with Deaf Master?

[Zathyr]

So, the familiar's Speak With Master ability:

"Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help."

It's not actual speech, but it's verbal. It's an exceptional ability, which would mean non-magical, but the text implies it is magical somehow. What kind of magical help do other creatures need to understand it, exactly? Have master/familiar just worked out some new unique language that no one else could possibly know (without magical help)? Or ...

As a special ability of a magical beast specially attuned to a character, I was trying to decide if it should work with an Oracle with the Deaf curse. (multiclassed or eldritch heritage or whatever) Initially I figured that'd be a simple question I could figure out just by reading the description, but the description is confusing the heck out of me the more I read it/think about it. Currently I'm leaning towards "yeah it'll work" since verbal doesn't have to mean spoken, even though "Speak" is in the name of the ability. Maybe they have some special sign language? However you want to flavor it. It seems reasonable enough to me. At the moment I'm not seeing any particularly compelling reason why the deaf curse would negate this ability.

But I know this forum is filled with folks who seem to love over-analyzing this stuff as much as I do. ;) So I figured I'd toss the question out to the wolves. Heck, there may even be an official clarification somewhere.

[Alleran]

I usually consider it a kind of cryptophasia.

[LazarX]

It's speech, not telepathy. The familiar speech ability is built under the standard assumption that you can hear. So it won't do anything for your deaf oracle.

[Captain Zoom]

I don't think there's any magical component to the ability. It's kind of like how a little kid's parents seem to know what the little guy is saying when everyone else around them is just hearing semi-intelligible gibberish. Heck, my wife (who spends all day with him) can understand what our youngest is saying when I can't figure it out.

RAW, it's verbal and if you're deaf, you can't hear what your familiar is saying.

BUT I say talk to your GM, he might allow you to treat the ability as a form of sign language with the limitations that go with it. For example, your familiar can't shout a warning to you. It must first get your attention to do the signing. Or if you're tied up, you can't tell your familiar what to do (though your GM might go for a variation where the familiar communicates with you by sign, but you communicate with it by voice). On the other hand, there are some pluses, like being able to communicate silently, or having your familiar sign you from afar while you watch him with a telecope. I don't think it's a big deal and won't break the game in any way.

If your GM insists on RAW, the workaround is the Linguistics skill. Remember:

"For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better."

You can take a rank in Linguistics to learn sign language and your Familiar gains sign language too!

[Zathyr]

Alleran wrote:

I usually consider it a kind of cryptophasia.

That's kind of how I was leaning. It seems like the simplest explanation that fits the description, barring anything that elaborates on it further. And there are cases of cryptophasia that take the form of sign languages.

Captain Zoom wrote:

RAW, it's verbal and if you're deaf, you can't hear what your familiar is saying.

Well "verbal" just means it uses words, as opposed to the empathic link you get at 1st level. Words don't need to be spoken aloud. I am typing words right now. Sign languages are verbal. Telepathic communication can be verbal as well. The only thing that indicates sound/hearing would be required is the name of the ability "Speak with Master" but even then "speak" is sometimes generalized to mean communication in whatever form.

That earlier empathic link is fairly powerful in its own right as a means of communication. The familiar doesn't need to speak a warning - a sudden sense of alarm, fear, or apprehension serves the purpose well enough, though without specific details. A sense of annoyance can get your attention in other cases. :)

Quote:

If your GM insists on RAW, the workaround is the Linguistics skill. Remember:

"For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better."

You can take a rank in Linguistics to learn sign language and your Familiar gains sign language too!

Does that work? I tend to think of your ranks in linguistics and the bonus languages gained from putting ranks into the skill as different things.

[Winfred]

Zathyr wrote:

Alleran wrote:

I usually consider it a kind of cryptophasia.

That's kind of how I was leaning. It seems like the simplest explanation that fits the description, barring anything that elaborates on it further. And there are cases of cryptophasia that take the form of sign languages.

Captain Zoom wrote:

RAW, it's verbal and if you're deaf, you can't hear what your familiar is saying.

Well "verbal" just means it uses words, as opposed to the empathic link you get at 1st level. Words don't need to be spoken aloud. I am typing words right now. Sign languages are verbal. Telepathic communication can be verbal as well. The only thing that indicates sound/hearing would be required is the name of the ability "Speak with Master" but even then "speak" is sometimes generalized to mean communication in whatever form.

That earlier empathic link is fairly powerful in its own right as a means of communication. The familiar doesn't need to speak a warning - a sudden sense of alarm, fear, or apprehension serves the purpose well enough, though without specific details. A sense of annoyance can get your attention in other cases. :)

Quote:

If your GM insists on RAW, the workaround is the Linguistics skill. Remember:

"For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better."

You can take a rank in Linguistics to learn sign language and your Familiar gains sign language too!

Does that work? I tend to think of your ranks in linguistics and the bonus languages gained from putting ranks into the skill as different things.

I don't believe it does. From the Paizo blog

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y

Blog wrote:

Gaining a language does not necessarily grant the ability to speak. Most animals do not possess the correct anatomy for speech. While a very intelligent dolphin might be taught to understand Common, there's no way for him speak it. There is also the issue of learning the language. The rules are mostly silent on this front, due to ease of play for PCs, but a GM should feel safe in assuming that it might take years to actually teach Common to an intelligent animal. All of this, of course, assumes that the animal even bothers to fill that language slot. Possessing the ability to use a language does not necessarily mean that such an ability is utilized.

[seebs]

I would tend to assume that an intelligent familiar which picks up your skills and can use your ranks would in fact develop the ability to understand your language, at least, and to speak any languages you know if it can speak at all. Which not all can. (An improved familiar, like a faerie dragon, I would expect to do just fine.)

[Cayzle]

I prefer the summoner/oracle option, because you get true master-eidolon telepathy with your eidolon, and it can speak common, letting it translate for you just fine if you want to play deaf-and-dumb.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Well, plus keep in mind... a cat doesn't just meow. It also swishes it's tail, flattens it's ears against it's head... animals speak more with body language than they do with actual vocalizations. I usually know what my cat wants... most of her meows sound the same, but it's the visual context of her body language that tells me she's hungry or wants the litter box cleaned NOW, or just wants some cuddles. So, just like I for the most part can understand my cat IRL from more than just the meows... I'm sure it's the same for a familiar, only easier due to the increased intelligence. The cat can flatten it's ears and widen it's eyes and hiss (which you can't hear but you can see) "OMFG there is a dragon behind you!!!!" and you'll know but everyone else will be like "What's wrong with your cat?"