I have a level 1 Ranger that I like a lot, and he's half-elven, so he gets two favored classes.
I don't multiclass - I'm new to PFS, so I haven't tried to overcomplicate things. But now I've been playing for 9 months or so, and after picking up the APG and the Animal Archive, I'm really super-duper excited to have an active animal companion. Thus, why I took the Ranger.
And I am planning to be a light armor wearing, archery type ranger, so I was thinking IF I multi-class, I would either go Rogue for a couple dips (because I find disable device to be an under-present skill in my area for PFS).
But after reading a thread about druid vs. cleric, and hearing the ways you can use instant summoning, and wild shape, and knowing the spells I have access to for an animal companion already, I wonder if I just don't take the Druid at level 2 or 3 and do it a few times.
Can you tell me if Ranger-Druid is dumb and too redundant?
If it's viable, can you tell me any advice about when to take druid and how far?
I had planned to be a standard ranger, but if I add druid, then I can take one of the archetypes that I like (skirmisher or the one where you give up favored enemy to help your group get a FE-like bonus).
Thanks for any insight you can add.
You'd be better off going straight Ranger or straight Druid.
It's generally considered a bad idea to dip if you're a caster as you want full casting progression. Druid also has the Wildshape which you don't want to delay either. In your scenario I think I would say just go straight Druid. Rangers are good in their own right, but it really sounds like you want more Druid stuff than Ranger stuff, so cut out the middle man and go straight for what interests you.
In regards to Rogue, that and Monk generally make good 2 level dips, but I don't think Rogue really goes well with Ranger. Sure you get some extra skills, but it's not like Ranger is really hurting for them anyway. Instead of delaying your primary class features, it may just be better for you to pick up the Extra Traits feat and spend one of them on Trap Finder if that is applicable in PFS.
Druid and Ranger don't synergise well at all I'm afraid. The ranger levels are delaying your spellcasting/wildshape and the druid levels are delaying your ranger bonus feats/FE progression.
I would recommend going pure ranger or pure druid, and not mixing classes at all. Rogue is also mostly worthless for you.
If your group desperately needs a trapfinder, you could always pick up the trapper archetype for the ranger (assuming it's legal in PFS)...... but be warned that it is strictly worse than a straight ranger as it loses spellcasting progression.
*edit*
There is also the trait mentioned above and Urban Ranger, both of which are decent pickups (better than trapper at least).
Also, remember you can just train in Disable Device, even if it isn't a class skill; plus, there are traits that give it to you as a class skill.
Trap Finder isn't applicable but I'd look into the Trapper Ranger.
Urban Barbarian is a solid dip for a Ranger.
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The Shaping Focus and Shapeshifting Hunter Feats combined actually make this...not necessarily a bad idea.
The two ways to do it are as follows:
Ranger 1/Druid X with Shapeshifting Hunter to basically be a Druid with Favored Enemy.
Ranger 1/Druid 4/Ranger X with Shaping Focus and Shapeshifting Hunter to be basically a Ranger with Wild Shape.
Neither's a real good idea as an Archery Ranger, though. And Urban Ranger is just better than multiclassing Ranger/Rogue.
Thanks guys.
My plan was to go straight ranger originally, but half-elf is (to me) the best ranger class. Also my first PFS class was a ranger (who died at level 3 because I had a bad stat setup for my first char).
Maybe I do want to be a druid... BUT... he's already got a module under his belt. I know you can change everything at level 1, but I already spent the money from that one (on a MW comp longbow). Can I undo all that?
(Technically it was a scenario credit from GMing, and no one has seen my GP expenditures yet...)
Otherwise I'll stick straight Ranger and hurry to Level 4 to get my AC, then I can use the feat from Animal Archive to make my AC level equal to my Ranger level, and have it at full power relative to a druid (right?).
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Thanks guys.
My plan was to go straight ranger originally, but half-elf is (to me) the best ranger class. Also my first PFS class was a ranger (who died at level 3 because I had a bad stat setup for my first char).Maybe I do want to be a druid... BUT... he's already got a module under his belt. I know you can change everything at level 1, but I already spent the money from that one (on a MW comp longbow). Can I undo all that?
(Technically it was a scenario credit from GMing, and no one has seen my GP expenditures yet...)
I'm pretty sure you can, yeah. I'm not an expert in PFS, though.
Otherwise I'll stick straight Ranger and hurry to Level 4 to get my AC, then I can use the feat from Animal Archive to make my AC level equal to my Ranger level, and have it at full power relative to a druid (right?).
This you can definitely do, but you only get the Feat at 5th since you don't get a Feat at 4th.
This you can definitely do, but you only get the Feat at 5th since you don't get a Feat at 4th.
My reading of it in the Animal Archive is that the animal takes the Feat.
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My reading of it in the Animal Archive is that the animal takes the Feat.
This you can definitely do, but you only get the Feat at 5th since you don't get a Feat at 4th.
That's incorrect. Re-read it...just to start with the prerequisites are having the Animal Companion class feature, something the animal companion itself definitely lacks.
That's incorrect. Re-read it...just to start with the prerequisites are having the Animal Companion class feature, something the animal companion itself definitely lacks.My reading of it in the Animal Archive is that the animal takes the Feat.
This you can definitely do, but you only get the Feat at 5th since you don't get a Feat at 4th.
Ah, yeah, that would change that. Again, thanks.
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Ah, yeah, that would change that. Again, thanks.That's incorrect. Re-read it...just to start with the prerequisites are having the Animal Companion class feature, something the animal companion itself definitely lacks.My reading of it in the Animal Archive is that the animal takes the Feat.
This you can definitely do, but you only get the Feat at 5th since you don't get a Feat at 4th.
No problem, happy to be of assistance. :)
I agree with deadman walking, they have really good synergy together with the additions of certain feats. I keep having to talk my self out of dipping ranger with my druid because I want the spells, but next level thats 3 favored enemies(one at +6 or two at +4) for a one level dip! I delay my casting (whichdoes suck) and my animal falls behind a level though. I think they can work very well together though doing exactly what deadman said.
Its especially tempting in pfs where I have a pretty good chance of predicting whats goin to beencountered a good vchunk of the time. If only I could find a way to get instant enemy on my spell list...
If you haven't played your character above level 1 yet, you can change everything about him. Stats, classes, faction, even reverse spent gold and prestige.
Have you looked at the Hunter from the Advanced Class Guide playtest? That's a Ranger/Druid hybrid.
It's legal in PFS, but when the book comes out, you have to own it to keep playing it and have to update the character to any charges in the book.
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I agree with deadman walking, they have really good synergy together with the additions of certain feats. I keep having to talk my self out of dipping ranger with my druid because I want the spells, but next level thats 3 favored enemies(one at +6 or two at +4) for a one level dip! I delay my casting (whichdoes suck) and my animal falls behind a level though. I think they can work very well together though doing exactly what deadman said.
Yeah, it's workable. Especially with certain other additions like the Magic Academy boon to get the caster level back or other such things.
Its especially tempting in pfs where I have a pretty good chance of predicting whats goin to beencountered a good vchunk of the time. If only I could find a way to get instant enemy on my spell list...
Doable as a Samsaran with Mystic Past Life, though I don't know any other way to manage it.
Interesting, one of my players is building a Druid-4/Fighter(Savage Warrior)-X focusing on wild shape.
I think Druid-4/Ranger-X would also work quite well so long as you do not care about spells.
Last question:
At level 3, can I decide to delay choosing a feat until I hit level? Then I could take the Boon Companion ability and at level 4 get an AC at same level as Ranger.
Actually, Ranger / Druid is one of the more supported multiclass combinations in the game.
Shapeshifting Hunter and the fact that animal companion levels from different classes stack makes it possible to multiclass between Druid and Ranger without loosing much of anything save for spellcasting ability.
If you go World Walker druid, you can even stack your druid and ranger levels together for determining when you get your favored terrains.
The combination even has a Prestige Class dedicated to it: the Nature Warden, though the class is really only worth it for two levels so you can pick up Mystic Harmony, which adds your Favored Terrain bonuses to your AC as an insight bonus.
In short, you can basically gain all of the ranger and druid's most powerful class features at full power (except wild shape, which never becomes at-will) if you're willing to sacrifice your spellcasting ability for it.
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The Shaping Focus and Shapeshifting Hunter Feats combined actually make this...not necessarily a bad idea.
The two ways to do it are as follows:
Ranger 1/Druid X with Shapeshifting Hunter to basically be a Druid with Favored Enemy.
THIS! I've run a couple of Druids (actually Animal Shamans) with a 1 level dip into Ranger using Shapeshifting Hunter and they've been great. Losing 1 level of spellcasting is worth getting the full Favored Enemy ability. Full access to Martial Weapons, extra skill points, and a boost to saves doesn't hurt too.
Well I don't have access to UC or UM, and I'm not willing to playtest the classes for something that may turn out awful on a character I want to love. I'm also new enough to have no idea what a Shapeshifting Hunter is. And this character is for PFS play too, so if those things aren't legal, they're out (and I probably don't have the books).
I'm a little confused now, because some people have said they do Ranger/druid in some very complicated way I don't quite understand, and it's awesome. Others, in ways I do understand, say it's a bad idea to mix these two.
The draw right now for me is the animal companion for the Ranger, so that's my emphasis. I'm still mulling it over, but... the only animal companion I want is a cat (small) (for personal reasons, and because I have an amazing miniature pair for the ranger/AC, and I'm a very good painter.)
I wouldn't mind losing one class or the other's spell ability. I enjoy buff spells (particularly those for the AC), I obviously have a wisdom handicap since I'm a ranger and I had to put my best score into Dex. The druid class, with 1-2 dips (if I did any) wouldn't lose much in terms of spells, as I see it. The ranger side isn't going to be casting much more than 3rd level spells anyway, I imagine (I've never had a character above level 3), and ranger/druid overlap a lot. I wasn't really looking to get wild shape, just a full level AC (or almost, if I only took 2 levels of druid). Does that change any opinions? Or only prove I'm dumb ;)
Someone said "Urban Barbarian" is great for a level dip, and that would be good, because of the speed increase (rangers are always great with more speed). I don't know much about the class otherwise.
Does anyone else think that's a useful dip? If so, when, and how many times?
Heliodorus04, I think the reason you are getting both types of responses is because it depends on what you want. Different people have different priorities.
Here is a list of priorities and whether you should multiclass based on that priority.
Druid spells: do not multiclass or multiclass 1 level only (1 level is usually considered a tolerable delay).
Ranger spells: do not multiclass, rangers have a slow enough progression as is.
Animal Companion: multiclass with a class that also has an animal companion or multiclass a limited amount (no more than 1 level if Ranger or 4 levels if druid) and take Boon Companion.
Favored Enemy: Multiclass only with classes that add to this or with a Druid and take Shapeshifting Hunter.
Wild Shape: Go for Druid 4, 6, or 8 (depending on what level of Wild Shape is your goal (8, 10, or 12) and then multiclass into some other class. Take Shaping Focus to add up to 4 levels from the other class to your Wild Shape progression.
So, you have to decide your priority. If your priority is Druid spells then do not multiclass but if your priority is Wild Shape and you do not care about spells then multiclass all you want after you get Wild Shape to where you want it.
As an example: The Druid4/FighterX concept doesn't care about spells at all. The sole reason for Druid is to acquire Wild Shape.
I have never played PFS, but I think you can only use books you bring to the table in your build. Knowing what books you have can help people advise you.
Alternately, I think if you own the PDFs and bring copies of the relevant pages it is proof of ownership and of the rules involved (your name/email address is printed at the top/bottom). However, I am a bit rusty on my PFS rules so don't quote me on that.
If you like the Ranger/Druid, you might consider the Hunter from the Advanced Class Guide. For PFS, you can use the beta (free) pdf. It has 6th level Druid spells, Rangers animal companion and various feats that help with the AC. The one thing it does not have is wildshape.
-- david