Maul, Demon of Battle
PFS legal build submitted for your critique:
Classes Archetypes
1 Barbarian Brutal Pugilist
2 Barbarian
3 Barbarian
4 Barbarian
5 Barbarian
6 Monk Martial Artist
7 Fighter Savage Warrior
8 Fighter
9 Fighter
10 Fighter
11 Fighter
Alternate Racial Traits
0 Prehensile Tail
0 Claws
0 Fiendish Sprinter
Traits
0 Adopted
0 Tusked
0 Beserker of the Society
Feats
1 Power Attack
3 Raging Vitality
5 Celestial Obedience: Falayna
7 Lunge
9 Snake Style
11 Feral Combat Training: Claws
Rage Powers
2 Lesser Fiend Totem
4 Strength Surge
Monk Bonus Feats
1 Improved Grapple
Fighter Bonus Feats
1 Final Embrace
2 Hamatula Strike
4 Weapon Focus: Claw
Items
Anaconda's Coils 18,500gp
+1 Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists 16,000gp
COMBAT
Bite 1D4+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled) Constrict Grab(Pin) Constrict
2x Claw 1D4+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple for damage Constrict Grab for damage Constrict
Gore 1D8+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple for damage
Questions, comments, concerns, suggestions, damnations, persecutions?
Approximately 1d8+12d6+3d4+241 damage per round with a full attack on anything size large or smaller.
Flagged for the advice forum...
Are you doing a grab/constrict off of attacks that are already getting a grapple/constrict off of hamatula strike? You're already grappling, I don't think you can double-dip like that.
Qlippoth Spawn Tiefling
STATS
Str 19
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 5
Wis 12
Cha 7
There have been lots of discussions about whether one may both bite and gore with a full attack given that both originate from the head area. Not sure if that has been resolved. Sorry to bring that up, I am hoping to see it resolved as well (maybe it has been and I haven't seen the official or unofficial answer).
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My Dwarven male Tetori worships her as well. He is a Jeweler specializing in ring making who's wife was a warrior who was killed in the line of serving as a Bodyguard. He follows Falayna as a tribute to his wife's sacrifice and to his craft. He is adventuring to find who or what killed her and every morning when he wakes he pummels a training dummy in preparation for when he finds the killer.
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I must be missing something. Where are you getting the constrict ability from?Final Embrace. It grants grab and constrict. He qualifies for it by having a belt of anaconda's coils, which gives a set constrict attack.
With you now. I really need to spend the time to pore over Ultimate Equipment and look at all the weird stuff some of that gear does. How about being able to grab a large size while being medium?
Other than that it looks legal although as Zefig mentioned I don't think you'll get two constricts per attack. Hamatula Strike and grab both let you make a free grapple. Constrict damage happens when you succeed on a grapple. The "grapple, constrict, release" trick lets you do this multiple times in the same round BUT if you've already constricted (and released) from Hamatula then you no longer have "contact" with the enemy to use the free grab. I understand the argument in favor of doing both but it's just that - an argument. Most GMs will probably not allow it.
Also, you're going to have a miserable time with leveling. Skill checks are going to be far outside your capabilities. And the social aspects of PFS are going to just pass you by. You'll be an awesome single-target damage machine once you get to level 8 though :). I see this character as a great "dungeon crawl, wall-to-wall combat" concept but somewhat lacking for PFS.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Constrict-Ex-
Constrict (Ex)*
FAQ
When a creature with constrict grapples a foe, when does it deal constrict damage?
A creature with constrict deals this additional damage every time it makes a successful grapple check against a foe. This includes the first check to establish the grapple (such as when using the grab universal monster rule).
[Source]
*A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.
Format: constrict (1d8+6); Location: Special Attacks.
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The question isn't whether you can constrict when you make a grapple. The question is if you can make *two* grapple checks from the same attack hitting. Hamatula Strike "impales the creature on your weapon" and grab "attempts to start a grapple." Both appear to be free attempts to start a grapple on contact. If the first attempt succeeds you have already started a grapple and would not get to start it again.
I agree it's a cool thought experiment and a crack in the rules, but it's a crack, not a break. Since you asked about PFS I wanted to warn you: a lot of GMs are going to say "no."
What about the "anything size large or smaller" ability?
Maul, Demon of Battle
Questions, comments, concerns, suggestions, damnations, persecutions?
One concern, two damnations.
Concern: I don't think Hamatula Strike does what you think it does. Check out the "Normal" clause of it.
Damnations:
- Celestial Obedience + Lesser Fiend Totem
- Adopted -> Tusked
Also, this is why Constrict should only work when maintaining a grapple, not on the initial check. {Note: Should}
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Bruno not that smart, so he not quite understanding your full attack routine. Bruno try to walk through it, show problems with and then offer up two ways it could go.
You wrote:
COMBAT
Bite 1D4+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled) Constrict Grab(Pin) Constrict
2x Claw 1D4+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple for damage Constrict Grab for damage Constrict
Gore 1D8+18 Hamatula Strike Grapple for damage
Bruno walk through the first attack:
You Bite
Bite attack is successful
(this triggers)
Hamatula Strike
Grapple Check is successful
both you and monster gain grappled condition
(this triggers)
Constrict
1) At this point, you do not gain a Grab attack as you are not starting a grapple--you already have the opponent grappled. If you fail the Hamatula Strike grapple check, then Grab would trigger. If your Grab is successful, then you would do Constrict damage.
2) Even if a GM allowed you a bonus grab attack and Constrict damage on top of a successful Hamatula Strike and subsequent Constrict, it would not progress the grapple from Grapple to Pin.
3) On further claw and gore attacks, you already have the creature Grappled via your Bite Hamatula Strike. The GM would be well within his purview to disallow future Hamatula Strikes on a creature you have already have grappled due to a previous Hamatula Strike.
4) You can only do constrict damage to a creature your size or smaller. Yes, I know the Brutal Pugilist has this special ability:
At 5th level, the brutal pugilist takes no penalties to Dexterity, attack rolls, and combat maneuver checks when she has the grappled condition. She also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple or be grappled by another creature.
By default, Grapple has no size limit. The first part of that sentence ("She also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple") literally has no effect. The second part of that sentence ("or be grappled by another creature") may be specifically intended as defense against Swallow Whole or Snatch monster abilities, but again, it has no effect against normal grapple maneuvers.
Please note that ability only affects your effective size in relation to grappling checks. It does not affect the Constrict ability or its restrictions in any way. You would still be limited to Constricting creatures your size or smaller.
All that being said, let's revisit that attack routine in two versions (this assumes creature is constrictable):
VERSION A
Attack 1
Bite 1D4+18, Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled), Constrict 1D4+18
Attack 2
Claw 1D4+18
Attack 3
Claw 1D4+18
Attack 4
Gore 1D8+18
4d4 + 1d8 + 90 points of damage
However, you can use the free action to release the creature from your grapple to further grapple it again and get that constrict damage
VERSION B
Attack 1
Bite 1D4+18, Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled), Constrict 1D4+18, free action drop grapple
Attack 2
Claw 1D4+18, Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled), Constrict 1D4+18, free action drop grapple
Attack 3
Claw 1D4+18, Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled), Constrict 1D4+18, free action drop grapple
Attack 4
Gore 1D8+18, Hamatula Strike Grapple(grappled), Constrict 1D8+18, free action drop grapple
6d4 + 2d8 + 144 points of damage
Version A will fly at any PFS table.
Version B will fly at most PFS tables given a) you clearly explain how your attack routine works and b) your GM does not limit your number of free actions. Also, as this attack routine is VERY dice intensive (8 attack rolls and related damage calculations) you would need to be extremely diligent with moving your turn along.
Bruno sure he missed something, but Bruno can only grapple so many concepts at once.
I see no mechanical conflict between Celestial Obedience and Lesser Fiend Totem.
What issue is there with the Adopted: Tusked combo?
The only alignments this build could not be is any lawful and any evil.
If it makes a difference the grab can happen before the Hamatula Strike.
Round 1
Claw, Stun, grab (grapple), constrict, Hamatula strike(pin), constrict, free action release grapple
Claw, grab (grapple), constrict, Hamatula strike(pin), constrict, free action release grapple
Bite, grab (grapple), constrict, Hamatula strike (pin), constrict
Gore, Hamatula strike (damage)
Round 2
Free action release
Restart mangle machine...
EDIT: Thank you Bruno. The second attack routine you described would make a great combo with:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/vampiric-hunger
To add 3d4 constitution damage and heal 15 HP
Breakdown of actions:
Swift action: Snake Style
Free action: Rage
Full round action: Full attack
Free action: Grab
Free action: Release
Free action: Grab
Free action: Release
Free action: Grab
5' step :)
If it makes a difference the grab can happen before the Hamatula Strike.
In terms of each attack there is no before hamatula strike. Its part of the attack. The double up on grapple constrict would not happen as far as I can see.
Master Bruno's option Version B would be the correct (and devastating) full attack.
An interesting combo but to be honest I would personaly prefer to never see someone this fully specialized at a pfs table.
I come here to say that one of my favorite characters I ever built was Maul Daemous; the grappling Teifling fighter... Go you.
Edit: Also he was An Unarmed Fighter/Master of Many Styles/Brutal Pugilist.
That does make sense Kolby. The Hamatula Strike would only really apply to the Gore attack.
So Final Embrace OR Hamatula Strike? No sense in giving the build both.
Bruno your version two: If Maul doesn't drop the grapple at the end of each natural attack could he not pin then subsequently damage on the other grapple checks?
Qlippoth Spawn Tiefling
Statistics
Str 19
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 5
Wis 12
Cha 7
Classes Archetypes
1 Barbarian Brutal Pugilist
2 Barbarian
3 Barbarian
4 Barbarian
5 Barbarian
6 Monk Martial Artist
7 Fighter Savage Warrior
8 Fighter
9 Fighter
10 Fighter
11 Fighter
Alternate Racial Traits
0 Prehensile Tail
0 Claws
0 Fiendish Sprinter
Traits
0 Adopted
0 Tusked
0 Beserker of the Society
Skills
Knowledge: Planes 3
Sense Motive 3
Acrobatics 5
Feats
1 Power Attack
3 Raging Vitality
5 Weapon Focus: Claws
7 Snake Style
9 Celestial Obedience
11 Toughness
Rage Powers
2 Lesser Fiend Totem
4 Strength Surge
Monk Bonus Feats
1 Improved Grapple
Fighter Bonus Feats
1 Feral Combat Training
2 Hamatula Strike
4 Lunge
Items
Anaconda's Coils 18,500gp
+1 Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists 16,000gp
MW Mithral Fullplate 11,000gp
Headband of Havoc 8,000gp
Ioun Stone Dusty Rose Prism 5,000gp
Pauldrons of the Serpent 3,000gp
Armbands of the Brawler 500gp
Wayfinder 250gp
Cloak of Resistance
Ring of Protection
COMBAT
Round 1
Snake Style, Rage, Power Attack
Claw 1d4+18, Stun, Grapple (grapple), Constrict 1d6+12
Claw 1d4+18, Grapple (pin), Constrict 1d6+12
Bite 1d4+18, Grapple (damage 1d8+18), Constrict 1d6+12
Gore 1d8+18, Grapple (damage 1d8+18), Constrict 1d6+12
Round 2
Free action release grapple
Second verse same as the first
3d4+3d8+4d6+156 max possible damage
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Bruno your version two: If Maul doesn't drop the grapple at the end of each natural attack could he not pin then subsequently damage on the other grapple checks?
No.
It looks like you are conflating the Hamatula Strikes special grapple check to impale with a normal standard action grapple check. They are NOT the same.
"Whenever you damage an opponent with a piercing weapon, you can immediately make a grapple check; success means the opponent is impaled on your weapon and you both gain the grappled condition."
If you are successful with Hamatula Strike, you can make a special grapple check--the outcome of this this special grapple check is impaling and the grappled condition. It is NOT the standard grapple check which would give you, among other options, the ability to progress the grapple to a pin.
While you can impose the grappled condition with a Hamatula strike, you cannot use it in lieu of a standard grapple check.
Ah, "success means..." so it replaces the usual outcome. 3d4+1d8+4d6+120 max possible damage. A far cry from my original estimate but it's good to know that this is correct.