It works exactly as described as far as I am aware. My current character build relies exactly on this actually. I've combed the rules over and over making sure it works and I've yet to find a snag.
It should work as follows:
1) cast spell (chill touch/frostbite/etc.)
2) provoke AoO
3) opponent misses
4) make unarmed strike AoO (free action)
5) hit and deliver spell charge 1
6) make unarmed strike AoO (immediate)
7) hit and deliver spell charge 2
8) make free attack from spell with weapon charge 3
9) make bab attacks to deliver remaining charges.
So long as you never use a swift action, you can repeat this process round after round.
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It doesn't quite work that way.
The attack you are provoking interrupts you casting the spell. The spell hasn't happened yet.
So you'd get some unarmed strikes in, but they won't have any touch spells associated with them, yet.
EDIT: Also, you don't threaten when you're in the middle of casting a spell, so the first AoO you make in that sequence might not even be possible.
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I believe what you're saying, Nefreet, but for posterity, could I have a source on where it says you don't threaten while casting?
Sure thing. HERE is the relevant text:
A spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.
When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from 1 round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, you lose the spell.
You only provoke attacks of opportunity when you begin casting a spell, even though you might continue casting for at least 1 full round. While casting a spell, you don't threaten any squares around you.
This action is otherwise identical to the cast a spell action described under Standard Actions.
Here's why you both CAN take the AoO's for this set up, and why you DO get the spell effect: because everything the caster does, happens AFTER the AoO the opponent makes. So both the completion of the spell, and the attacks you make (which use up your #of AoOs, but are in fact not normal AoOs) happen once the opponent misses their AoO.
Relevant text:
While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent's attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent
And as it happens, the second unarmed strike isn't even an AoO at all.
The reason that this feats special AoO doesn't follow normal rules for AoOs when it comes to interrupting the flow of the game is that it is dependent on the result of the attack it is triggered from. If you made this attack BEFORE your opponent made theirs, then I'd fully agree, but as written, this is a special rule that works differently.
Actually, after re-redaing your post nefreet, I think I see what you are saying, that even though you can make these attacks, they happen after the AoO from the opponent, but before the completion of the spell being cast? Correct? So effectively you can't be threatening at that point. But special still overrides general in that case. As to the spell completion, I would argue that because no "time travel" takes place with snake fang, that the only thing interrupted in the flow would be the spell as its cast (from the AoO that misses), after which the spell finishes, and then you would apply the "he missed me, I get to do thus now" parts.
I agree with nefreet. If the casting of the spell provokes an AoO, that AoO and all consequences it entrains/triggers (other AoOs, for example if a disarm was attempted without improved disarm) resolve before the completion of the spell (including any concentration check for taking damage while casting, if that happens to occur).
Normally, I would agree, but AFAIK, unless the chain of events continues the backwards time travel, the immediate next thing to happen (before anything else, but after the first AoO) is the resolution of the spell. So any thing that happens AFTER the first AoO that happens, must also happen AFTER the trigger for that AoO. At least that is my understanding. There is no other instance of time travel that I am aware of that forces a resolution after instead of before.
Can you clarify something for me please ? When your earlier post mentions "spell charge 1" and "spell charge 2", are you assuming a spell (like chill touch) that provides multiple touches ?
Yes
That was confusing because the OP specified Arcane Mark. I'll work through it all again later to see if my conclusion changes.
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If my magus somehow had Combat Reflexes and Snake Fang, could she -
1. Cast Arcane Mark and attack with her scimitar using Spellstrike to deliver the touch, triggering an attack of opportunity
=> IF the attack misses, unarmed strike (free action opportunity attack) with Snake Fang
=> If her unarmed strike hits, follow through with another unarmed strike (immediate action) using Snake Fang, then
2. Attack again with her scimitar using the free attack provided by Spell Combat/Spellstrike?Are these 2 weapon/2 unarmed attacks legal for a full-round attack? The only thing I can see that MIGHT get in the way would be the 1 swift action/immediate action per round limitation, but I didn't catch anything about that in the description for Spell Combat and Spellstrike. Thanks!
1. Yes to the first part, and please keep in mind an AoO is a No Action ability => Yes to the AoO with your free hand => No, because you already used a swift action with Arcane Mark(that is a swift isn't it?). Swift and Immediate effectively are the same action, but used on different occasions.
2. Yes, as this has nothing to really do with AoO. AoO's occur between your normal attacks. Think of positioning yourself in a weird receptive, but ready to strike stance, almost weaving around your opponents failure to contact, then strike them wherever they are vulnerable in their offensive reach.
I am pretty sure all attacks of opportunity (including special immediate action strike, pretty much happen simultaneously with the action that provoked them, completing before the provoking action is completed (and possibly effecting it negatively or preventing it from happening at all).
So you would cast a spell using spell combat (making all attack rolls this round at -2), the opponent would attack you while you were doing it, his clumsy (missed) attack allows you to attack him while he attacks you (possibly twice if you hit and spend an immediate action) then you finish your spell, make a free attack (based upon touch spells and spellstrike) adding the effect of the spell presuming you hit, and then finish your attack routine, with the effects of the spells on the attacks if it allowed multiple touches (such as chill touch).
This seems to follow the rules, and make perfect thematic sense as well, which isn't always the case.
I am pretty sure all attacks of opportunity (including special immediate action strike, pretty much happen simultaneously with the action that provoked them, completing before the provoking action is completed (and possibly effecting it negatively or preventing it from happening at all).
So you would cast a spell using spell combat (making all attack rolls this round at -2), the opponent would attack you while you were doing it, his clumsy (missed) attack allows you to attack him while he attacks you (possibly twice if you hit and spend an immediate action) then you finish your spell, make a free attack (based upon touch spells and spellstrike) adding the effect of the spell presuming you hit, and then finish your attack routine, with the effects of the spells on the attacks if it allowed multiple touches (such as chill touch).
This seems to follow the rules, and make perfect thematic sense as well, which isn't always the case.
Again, as I said to nefreet, I agree that thus makes sense. The problem that I see, is that mechanically speaking, there is nothing in the "chain" of events between the missed AoO from the opponent and the completion of the spell because the snake fang AoO HAS to happen after the trigger, not before, as a normal AoO does. Because of this, the spell completes either at the same time as, or just before you make use of snake fang.
Unless you can show me how mechanically speaking, they remain in the same chain...
See, that's how I see it too. Although I refer to "chain" because I'm using yugioh! In my description, but same system mechanic. Problem I see is that they are two seprate stacks, or chains. See where I'm coming from?
There are two timelines here. One is what the players experience, entirely sequential, and one is what the characters experience, more simultaneous.
For the players spell causes, AOO which misses which causes another attack of opportunity.
For the character, While casting a spell an opponent swings at you, missing, and you hit him as he attacks when his clumsy strike leaves him vulnerable. They all happen pretty much the same time.
The mechanical part is that doing one thing (ie casting a spell or missing an opponent with snake fang) causes something else (an attack of opportunity) to happen during that action. That is the core idea of what an attack of opportunity is, a sudden opening that you can exploit because, and while, something else is happening. They don't 'chain' as far as time goes, although they sometimes can interrupt or effect the original action.
dave, we are all in agreement on what you've said. however, snake fang's particular AoO does not follow the typical interrupt rules like the one provoked from casting a spell does because it can only happen AFTER the trigger for it. you cant make the AoO from Snake Fang before the attack that triggers it, nor can you make it before the [more specific] miss from that attack. it can only be taken AFTER its trigger, which means that its not interrupting anything.
i completely understand that the trigger for Snake Fang is the "miss". but there is no possible way to interrupt that unless you make the AoO before the attack itself. if that were the case, then there would be no way to know if the attack missed. so it has to go attack>miss>AoO, whereas normally its something like AoO>cast spell>finish spell.