How can you tell...

[DarkKnight27]

...if a creature that has flight is using magical/supernatural flight or has natural flight?

Both an eagle and a dragon (and many other creatures) have wings and can fly but I've heard it argued that a dragon's flight (for instance) is supernatural not natural.

Is there an entry somewhere that says what creatures have supernatural flight and which don't? Does "supernatural" flight only refer to flight caused directly by magic such as the Fly spell?

I ask because I was reading up on spells like Hold Person and Hold Monster and there's a reference that if a creature doesn't have "supernatural" flight and is held it will fall.

Thanks for the help!

[DarkKnight27]

Bump.

[Sleet Storm]

If it has wings its an extraordinary abiity (Ex),if not its supernatural (Su).
There are some (Su) abilities that grant wings(like Draconic Wings) but the flight itself would still be (Ex) for effects like hold person.

[DM Under The Bridge]

Lol, if the dragon didn't use its wings to fly, they would atrophy.

[Ascalaphus]

It's a bit of a grey area really. The best you can do is look at the picture in the bestiary. If it has wings...

[williamoak]

This is complicated by the fact a number of dragons (outer dragons) have wings and can fly in space, where wings are useless...

[Ascalaphus]

Dragons are really pushing it. It's not all that realistic that they can actually fly without any magic at all, being all that bulky and such. But dragons operating in anti-magic zones is well-attested, so there we are.

[Zhayne]

I think it's fair to say that the laws of physics in Pathfinder are at a significant variance from our own. The Square-Cube Law and the Laws of Conservation are particularly tortured.

[VRMH]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Dragons are really pushing it. It's not all that realistic that they can actually fly without any magic at all, being all that bulky and such.

They're actually blimps. They need to be that big to fly. ;)

[DarkKnight27]

Alright, so accepting the fact that certain creatures (like Dragons or a Nalfeshnee) must have a little bit of something assisting their flight a good rule of thumb would be if the creature can fly in an area of Anti-magic/Dead Magic and it has wings then it's using "natural" flight so if it get's held or paralyzed in some way (assuming it can be held or paralyzed) it would drop like a stone to the ground.

This makes sense to me.

Thanks!

[Ascalaphus]

VRMH wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

Dragons are really pushing it. It's not all that realistic that they can actually fly without any magic at all, being all that bulky and such.

They're actually blimps. They need to be that big to fly. ;)

Dragons actually featured in Shadowrun:

* Dunkelzahn
* Nachtmeister
* Nebelherr
* Schwarzkopf
* ...

"Hindenburg" doesn't sound so out of place to me :P