New Summoner build - thinking of going for Serpentine Eidolon


Advice

Silver Crusade

I realize that most players will try to build the eidolon with the most DPR potential. I agree, that will likely not be for the serpentine type. However, if you get the serpentine eidolon to large size (always have Enlarge spell ready to go; and much later take the large size evolution) and grapple the bad guy and constrict; that could essentially end the encounter. Plus, doesn't it add a bit more flavor to have a serpent instead?

That said, what would be the most practical and power track to build a serpentine eidolon? Are there advantages that could be had by utilizing such an eidolon other than what I noted above?


Cool shape. I like it the best myself.

It's been a while since I've looked at this, but one thing that bugged me was the only way I could increase the base speed was by adding legs.

I want a straight serpent, no stumpy little legs hanging off my eidolon (even if I pay for them with evolution points).

Don't know if the little things bug you like they do me, but talk with your dm about the appearance.

But you are right most people seem to favor the quadruped form, then the biped form is a little less popular.

Also I have no idea how high you can get the CMB for doing maneuvers. Since the eidolon can't take class levels you lose a few of the multi classing tricks that PC's that go this route take.


Swallow Whole.

Also, serpentine form just looks more awesome.

Silver Crusade

I forgot to mention this is for PFS play.

Don't get me wrong, I want to make it a powerful opponent. But, I want to keep the serpentine flavor and not start adding a gazillion limbs to it to turn it into a quadruped snake. It should be a snake and take on all advantages possible a snake could get.

So, it would be great to up its Dex, raise it's CMB, protect it from attacks, and make sure it goes in for the constriction grapple (or as someone suggested...swallow whole...but I'd had to have my poor eidolon have it guts ripped out as they exit!).

Silver Crusade

sunbeam wrote:

Cool shape. I like it the best myself.

It's been a while since I've looked at this, but one thing that bugged me was the only way I could increase the base speed was by adding legs.

I want a straight serpent, no stumpy little legs hanging off my eidolon (even if I pay for them with evolution points).

Don't know if the little things bug you like they do me, but talk with your dm about the appearance.

But you are right most people seem to favor the quadruped form, then the biped form is a little less popular.

Also I have no idea how high you can get the CMB for doing maneuvers. Since the eidolon can't take class levels you lose a few of the multi classing tricks that PC's that go this route take.

One solution is to take reach for the bite a couple of times. You already get reach once for 10' so for 1 evolution point each you could be attacking at 20 feet away for two points, more useful then simply 10 more feet of movement since you can attack them but they can't attack you.

Add in the enlarge person nand constrict and you are golden.


I would probably add a mere 2 limbs, make it a dervish dancer, and have it fight with bite, tail slap & scimitar. There are some folks that have the cheesy interpretation that having a scimitar in one hand allow ALL attacks to get dex to damage, but I digress. Have it look like some sort of serpentine centaur.


It is less optimal than the more standard approaches (quadruped + pounce + claws, or a biped eidolon with reach and lots of Strenght), but it can be done pretty effectively, espacially for PFS.

You need Grab + Constrict, Ability Increase (Strength) every time it is available and Improved Damage (bite). Also note that, apart from the standard improved/greater grpple and rapid grappler, you should take the final embrace master feat tree to bring your damage on par with the rest of the group.

Swallow Whole is fun and you should eventually take it, but the Large evolution takes priority.

Silver Crusade

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a Dervish Dancer (heard of that term a LOT lately) and how would I turn the eidolon into that if that was desired?

williamoak wrote:
I would probably add a mere 2 limbs, make it a dervish dancer, and have it fight with bite, tail slap & scimitar. There are some folks that have the cheesy interpretation that having a scimitar in one hand allow ALL attacks to get dex to damage, but I digress. Have it look like some sort of serpentine centaur.


A dervish dancer refers to the feat "dervish dance", which allows you to use dexterity for damage & attack while attacking with a scimitar.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/pel-s-lab/dervish-dance

Dark Archive

Are you saying serpentine is more flavor because it us the.least popular of the three base? Not sure if it is above/below the aquatic form, but guessing above. What leads you to believe it us mire flavorful? Because pleanty of fantasy has a 4 legged mount or because the biped sort of blends in with the other biped races?

Silver Crusade

Let's just say, I like to sometimes swim upstream from everyone else. Every time I've seen an eidolon build it some sort of biped/quadruped power build with DPR melee in mind. Yes, I want to have fun knocking out the bad guys. But, it might be more fun (and probably a tad bit more challenging) doing it in a form that I seldom see (and as of yet have not seen at any of my PFS tables I've played at).

Raymond Lambert wrote:
Are you saying serpentine is more flavor because it us the.least popular of the three base? Not sure if it is above/below the aquatic form, but guessing above. What leads you to believe it us mire flavorful? Because pleanty of fantasy has a 4 legged mount or because the biped sort of blends in with the other biped races?

Dark Archive

Agile maneuver can use dex to CMB, though I hate downing feats on it and weapon finesse to hit in the first place.

Get a wand of enlarge person. Summoners have a special clause that allows them to use it on an Eidolon while the spell normally would not work on an outsider.

I am not convinced the reach evolution("The eidolon's reach with that attack increases by 5 feet.") and size increase should lead to a 20 foot threat range. I understand it works that way for a medium with a reach weapon enlarged but I do not think the reach evolution works the same way. I should start another thread for this.

Reach on the bite combined with trip and combat reflexes is very nice.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The errataed information for the Large/Huge evolution tells you everything you need to know about reach.

A serpentine eidolon gets reach with its bite attack for free. Since by default you cannot take an evolution more than once, you cannot take that evolution again to gain further reach with your bite or even equal reach with other attacks (so you have the weird situation that you have reach with your bite attack but not your gore attack in the event that you take the Gore evolution).

The Large evolution increases the reach of the biped form only. If you go for Huge size, a non-biped gets an additional 5 feet of reach with all attacks, meaning that it has 15 feet of reach with its bite and 10 feet of reach with all other attacks.

The best way I know of to increase speed without growing legs is to take the Flight evolution and spend the extra points to go wingless and to increase flight speed as desired. Your eidolon will seem to have a very fast land speed until somebody notices that it hardly ever touches the ground -- which could also explain why its several tons of weight at size Huge generally don't cause the floor to collapse under it.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

One other thing -- if it does not go against your concept, you should definitely give your eidolon arms. There are many things that can be done much better with hands than with the mouth, and it also gives you a way to justify the eidolon having every magic item slot except the feet slot.

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