Not talking optimization or anything, just how many encounters are you prepped for, right out the gate? I was on a walk a bit ago and had a thought: if PFS assumes every level 1 starts with 150 GP, then the PCs can reasonably portion starting cash as 50 on weapons, 50 on armor, and 50 on gear.
Now take it a step further. If you're NOT playing PFS but still start the PCs with 150 GP each, then you could have a PC who begins the game with the ability to scribe scrolls/brew potions. This cuts the cost of starting consumables in half.
So a starting wizard with 150 GP could have 50 GP worth of offensive scrolls(weapons), 50 GP worth of defensive scrolls (armor) and still afford a few flasks for power components/dealing with swarms. These scrolls would be 1/2 price since the wizard makes them themselves, so a total of 4 in each category.
I postulate then that, before needing to rest, a wizard could conceivably be ready for 8 combats in one day.
So I guess I'm putting it out there into the boards: how many encounters/combats do you think is reasonable to deal with in a day of adventuring at 1st level?
It depends on the encounters. If the encounters don't do a lot of damage they 5 for sure. There are CR= encounters that kill 1st level PCs if they did 5 of them. It's the like the Orc that gets the critical with the great axe. If you fight orcs all day eventually that will occur.
So figure that the encounters will equal out to APL 1 for a first level party. Some will be CR 1/2, some will be CR 2, but they will average to CR1 or APL 1.
So 4 well-equipped PCs entering a dungeon with, say 12 encounter areas planned. All of these encounters will average to CR 1. How many could they survive?
I hear it all the time that this game is based around 4-5 encounters a day, but that seems ridiculously boring to me. You meant to tell me that the average PC at first level works for roughly 2-3 minutes of the day and then rests for 23 hours and 57-58 minutes?
I'm thinking that a well-armed group of PCs running smart and careful tactics should enter said 12-room dungeon and clear most of it in a single run. Depending on rolls it might be six with a PC killed by a crit; it might also be all 12 with favorable scouting and attack rolls on their side.
It just seems like I hear a lot of gripe on either side of the 4-5 encounter threshold, but I don't know that I've ever seen the math that says "by law of averages the PCs should be exhausted after 4-5 encounters."
I never understood the 4-5/20%/whatever rule. It will vary wildly based on party makeup, encounter makeup, and (most of all) player behavior. All the min-maxing in the world won't help if their first encounter is with a mosquito swarm and they all decide to charge.
You know you've played too much PFS when...
So my guys in my current game came upon a Beheaded Swarm. Essentially a hallway filled with ossuary designs came alive and became the swarm. Anyway I just figured "meh; they're experienced players, its a CR 1, how bad can it be?"
It was a nightmare.
Cleric walks in, triggering the swarm. At that moment he realizes "I'm out of channels for the day!" Players start attacking; no one bothers to roll Knowledge checks and they don't understand their weapons are useless. A couple rounds in, the cleric drops; a round later the paladin, after that the ranger. Finally the magus remembers an acid flask - fight ended.
I essentially removed the next two encounters and gave them a couple cure light potions in the process.
At 1st level, it really depends on what you prepared for, what you get, and luck. The fighter could down an awful lot of skeletons/etc if the GM never rolls above a 10. :)
It just seems like I hear a lot of gripe on either side of the 4-5 encounter threshold, but I don't know that I've ever seen the math that says "by law of averages the PCs should be exhausted after 4-5 encounters."
I am not sure for Pathfinder (I thought I was but couldn't find anything to verify it from the PRD).
I imagine it is a holdover from 3.5; from the 1st printing 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, p 49:
So, what counts as a "challenge"? Since a game session probably includes many encounters, you don't want to make every encounter one that taxes the PCs to their limits. They would have to stop the adventure and rest for an extensive period after every fight, and that slows down the game. An encounter with an Encounter Level (EL) equal to the PCs' level is one that should expend about 20% of their resources - hit points, spells, magic item uses, and so on. This means, on average, that after about four encounters of the party's level the PCs need to rest, heal, and regain spells. A fifth encounter would probably wipe them out.
Though 3.5 defined encounters with EL = APL as Challenging (the only levels below that were "Easy" and "Easy if handled properly"). I am not sure with Pathfinder if they have changed the intent - I couldn't find anything with a quick look that seemed to indicate one way or the other.
I never understood the 4-5/20%/whatever rule. It will vary wildly based on party makeup, encounter makeup, and (most of all) player behavior. All the min-maxing in the world won't help if their first encounter is with a mosquito swarm and they all decide to charge.
Like the CR system itself, 4 encounters a day is a loose general guideline, not an ironclad rule.
Personally, I find first-level encounters a bit tricky to balance, because they swing very heavily depending on how the d20 falls. Most character abilities haven't come online at first level, and HP pools are very shallow all around. When a single good hit can drop a full-health character into negatives or even kill them outright...
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A day is more than just combat.
So let's assume there is four fights, in a day. The players might have done some investigation to find the dungeon, some skill checks to navigate the terrain to get to the dungeon, search checks within the dungeon, speaking to NPCs or using stealth to bypass encounters.
On top of which, some combats might be CR 1/4 or CR 1/2, in which case the players will have had two of those battles, before facing a CR 1 monster or two and finishing the day with a CR 2 or 3 boss battle.
All up the entire day could have been 3-8 hours of adventuring before the PCs are too low on resources and dailies to go find somewhere safe to camp (another encounter).
PLUS a group with a higher point buy might be able to go more than the 4-6 assumed daily encounters (since +2 cha converts to an additional round of bardic music, an additional channel energy etc).
A max of 1,300 to 3,000 XP worth.
Because after that I'd be handling encounters at second level ;)
Not talking optimization or anything, just how many encounters are you prepped for, right out the gate? I was on a walk a bit ago and had a thought: if PFS assumes every level 1 starts with 150 GP, then the PCs can reasonably portion starting cash as 50 on weapons, 50 on armor, and 50 on gear.
Now take it a step further. If you're NOT playing PFS but still start the PCs with 150 GP each, then you could have a PC who begins the game with the ability to scribe scrolls/brew potions. This cuts the cost of starting consumables in half.
So a starting wizard with 150 GP could have 50 GP worth of offensive scrolls(weapons), 50 GP worth of defensive scrolls (armor) and still afford a few flasks for power components/dealing with swarms. These scrolls would be 1/2 price since the wizard makes them themselves, so a total of 4 in each category.
I postulate then that, before needing to rest, a wizard could conceivably be ready for 8 combats in one day.
So I guess I'm putting it out there into the boards: how many encounters/combats do you think is reasonable to deal with in a day of adventuring at 1st level?
Hell if I know. Level 1 combat is incredibly swingy. CR 1/3 Orcs are swinging with attacks that will can one hit KO your 1d8 characters.