Wizard and Witch, who get's the scroll

[nosig]

Ok, this is a minor thing, but...

During the adventure the PCs recover a scroll of a spell on both the Wizard/Sorcerer list, and on the Witch spell list. There is a Wizard & a Witch in the group of PCs and both would like to add the spell to their book/familiar.

Who get's it?

Clearly they both can't, there is only one scroll and the process of adding it distroys it.

Could we do something like have them each pay half the access cost to add the spell? but this would violate the rule of giving money to another PC right?

[Alex McGuire]

If they are learning it during the adventure, then they would probably flip a coin. After the scenario, the loser could learn it from the scroll on the chronicle sheet.

[nosig]

Alex McGuire wrote:

If they are learning it during the adventure, then they would probably flip a coin. After the scenario, the loser could learn it from the scroll on the chronicle sheet.

actually, they can't learn it from the scroll on the chronicle sheet unless they buy it (unless there has been a change to allow it in the last season or two rules changes). The Chronicle sheet does not grant access...

[Chris Mortika]

nosig, that's my understanding as well. After the adventure, they would each need to buy a copy of the scroll.

During the adventure, they would need to come to some agreement. I don't believe there are any rules as to how that comes about -- Alex's suggestion of flipping a coin seems reasonable -- and I hope that the rules of the campaign never get minuscule enough to provide one.

[Blackbot]

Why is this in GM Discussion? Seems like a general topic to me.

Anyways: Buying the scroll is possible, but not advisable. You pay lots of money for a scroll and there is always the possibility to botch the roll.
On the other hand, if you pay half the inscribe costs you gain access to the spells between scenarios. A witch doesn't even need to pay the inscribe costs itself since she doesn't have these.
Take for example a 4th level spell:

80 gp (NPC spellbook/familiar) vs. 700 gp (scroll)
Quite a difference!

[Avatar-1]

Chris Mortika wrote:

and I hope that the rules of the campaign never get minuscule enough to provide one.

I think this is a grey area that is actually important enough to clarify.

I would have thought the idea was they would both probably need to buy the scroll before inscribing it, or they would both get it free.

Flipping a coin or coming to an agreement (or similar) is perfectly fine too, but I'm not sure that aligns with the intent of PFS rules where every player gets the loot in a scenario. I know it's a bit like a potion, but the player keeps this particular "item" forever after, so there might be an exception here.

[LazarX]

nosig wrote:

Ok, this is a minor thing, but...

During the adventure the PCs recover a scroll of a spell on both the Wizard/Sorcerer list, and on the Witch spell list. There is a Wizard & a Witch in the group of PCs and both would like to add the spell to their book/familiar.

Who get's it?

Clearly they both can't, there is only one scroll and the process of adding it distroys it.

Could we do something like have them each pay half the access cost to add the spell? but this would violate the rule of giving money to another PC right?

Wrong. this is Pathfinder Society...

They can both buy it after the session, assuming it's on the Chronicle.

Same rule applies to EVERY ITEM ON A CHRONICLE unless the GM has crossed it off the sheet due to scenario instructions.

[andreww]

You are misreading the question. The issue is can you can add scrolls to your spellbook or familiar that you find during an adventure for the normal scribing costs. No-one doubts that both characters can purchase the scroll off the chronicle afterwards, not that it is ever a good idea, far better to buy access to a spell library at a much cheaper cost.

The Guide is actually not entirely clear on this. It says that you can freely use items that you find, including consumables, but you must purchase the item to continue to use it on subsequent adventures. Does having the spell in your spellbook/familiar count as continuing to use the item. Arguably not.

As for which of them gets to scribe/add it mid level I would leave it to the players to decide between themselves. The access cost isn't going to break anyone's bank.

[Matthew Pittard]

Flipping a coin seems best.

[DesolateHarmony]

Give it to the wizard. He inscribes it in his main spellbook, and then again in the spare traveling spellbook the group bought in the town they passed through. Then the witch's familiar eats the traveling spellbook.

Divide the costs as appropriate.

[nosig]

DesolateHarmony wrote:

Give it to the wizard. He inscribes it in his main spellbook, and then again in the spare traveling spellbook the group bought in the town they passed through. Then the witch's familiar eats the traveling spellbook.

Divide the costs as appropriate.

the familiar can't learn the spell by "eating the traveling spellbook" - just from a scroll or another witchs' familiar.

[BigNorseWolf]

Let the wizard copy it and have the familiar eat the ashes.

Or have both players split library fees after the adventure

I'm leaning more towards fair/equitable than raw here.

[Akerlof]

LazarX wrote:

nosig wrote:

Ok, this is a minor thing, but...

During the adventure the PCs recover a scroll of a spell on both the Wizard/Sorcerer list, and on the Witch spell list. There is a Wizard & a Witch in the group of PCs and both would like to add the spell to their book/familiar.

Who get's it?

Clearly they both can't, there is only one scroll and the process of adding it distroys it.

Could we do something like have them each pay half the access cost to add the spell? but this would violate the rule of giving money to another PC right?

Wrong. this is Pathfinder Society...

They can both buy it after the session, assuming it's on the Chronicle.

Same rule applies to EVERY ITEM ON A CHRONICLE unless the GM has crossed it off the sheet due to scenario instructions.

Let me reword the question: The party finds a +3 Flaming Burst Greataxe during an adventure. Who gets to use it during the rest of the scenario, the Barbarian or the Fighter?

This is a question of how to divide up a resource that only one player can use during a scenario, not who gets access to something on their chronicle sheet.

My vote is that one of them carries the scroll during the scenario and _uses it_ if it turns out to be useful. If it wasn't useful during the scenario, then the two players work it out between themselves who gets to keep the spell through whichever means they find equitable (flip a coin, roll off, rock-paper-scissors, hangman, a dance off, whatever. My vote is for dance off.)

Like Blackbot said, the cost of access to an NPC's spellbook is trivial after all.

[LazarX]

Akerlof wrote:

Let me reword the question: The party finds a +3 Flaming Burst Greataxe during an adventure. Who gets to use it during the rest of the scenario, the Barbarian or the Fighter?

I'm the strange kind that believes that each pair of players in a scenario like this can work it out for themselves.

[godsDMit]

They discuss it like mature and rationale adults and figure out who will give it up.

If they cant manage that, I agree with flip a coin.

[Silbeg]

So, to take the Wisdom of Solomon.

You cut the scroll in half, giving the wizard and the witch each half of the scroll.

Problem solved.

Spoiler:

Explosive Runes! That was the scroll, right?

[BigNorseWolf]

Silbeg wrote:

So, to take the Wisdom of Solomon.

You cut the scroll in half, giving the wizard and the witch each half of the scroll.

Problem solved.

** spoiler omitted **

Why is the wizard covered in funny looking writing and why is the witch on fire?

Me barbarian solve argument!

[Majuba]

I would be fine (as a GM) with the witch paying half of the library fee for the wizard, while taking the scroll. Technically this is a during-game purchase that can be cost-shared. Just like someone buying a scroll and letting the wizard scribe it.

Just FYI, since some seem unclear, the "Issue" is that the scroll can be 'used' for free during the scenario to learn the spell by either the wizard or witch (scribed or eaten), and the other would have no free way of getting access to the spell. The wizard has a cheaper option than the witch (who can only learn from scrolls and familiars, not spellbook access).

["Auntie" Baltwin]

Majuba wrote:

I would be fine (as a GM) with the witch paying half of the library fee for the wizard, while taking the scroll. Technically this is a during-game purchase that can be cost-shared. Just like someone buying a scroll and letting the wizard scribe it.

Just FYI, since some seem unclear, the "Issue" is that the scroll can be 'used' for free during the scenario to learn the spell by either the wizard or witch (scribed or eaten), and the other would have no free way of getting access to the spell. The wizard has a cheaper option than the witch (who can only learn from scrolls and familiars, not spellbook access).

Sorry - this line of yours struck me funny - "...The wizard has a cheaper option than the witch...". Having just started playing a witch (playing wizards for years), I was struck by how little it cost the witch to add spells when compared to the wizard. The witch doesn't have scribing cost, just access cost. So a witch can add a spell for 1/3 what it costs a wizard...

Two wizards sit down at the same table and swap spells can result in them each spending more than they make during the scenario just to scribe spells in their book. Two witches sit at the same table and swap spells, doing it for free...

[BigNorseWolf]

The witch can pay library fees and have her familiar commune with another familiar in the lodge, same as a wizard can borrow a book from the library. The wizard can crib off of spells in the rare occasion the scenarios ever bothers to mention the wizards spellbook.

I'd forgotten the witch doesn't have scribing costs...

[Majuba]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The witch can pay library fees and have her familiar commune with another familiar in the lodge, same as a wizard can borrow a book from the library. The wizard can crib off of spells in the rare occasion the scenarios ever bothers to mention the wizards spellbook.

Thanks for clarifying AB's post, I was confused for a moment. Is this ruling formalized somewhere? I'm not aware of access to a Witch's familiar being defined as purchasable.

Spellbook Rule:

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.

Familiar Rule:

Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service.

PFS FAQ:

LINK
The FAQ mentions witches, and then says: "In the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks, this fee is equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells do not change the fee in PFS."

[BigNorseWolf]

Dig dig dig dig BONE!

[Alecak]

I would have the Wizard copy it and then let the Witch see the spell from his book. You don't have to pay the fee to see another book if they are both willing and at the same table. If the Wizard screws up and burns the scroll then they are both out.

[Dan Simons]

Alecak wrote:

I would have the Wizard copy it and then let the Witch see the spell from his book.

A witch's familiar cannot learn a spell from a wizard's spellbook.

[SCPRedMage]

Dan Simons wrote:

Alecak wrote:

I would have the Wizard copy it and then let the Witch see the spell from his book.

A witch's familiar cannot learn a spell from a wizard's spellbook.

It truly astounds me how many times this has needed saying in this tread...

[Majuba]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dig dig dig dig BONE!

Danke BNW.

For others:

Michael Brock wrote:

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Witches ... method for learning is to have their familiar commune with another witch's familiar. Is this an avenue available to them for spellbook-sharing prices, or are they still required to purchase scrolls for spells they don't receive while leveling?

Yes it is available.

Emphasis and editing added for clarity.

That's really ridiculously cheap, but certainly answers the OP's question: Burn the Witch - Wizard gets the scroll!