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So I'm trying to make something that will really really challenge both the players and myself. I'm also a mild sociopath. So instead of actually becoming a serial killer (please don't call the cops) (yet), I'm going to make a campaign around one. This is my idea. Help me refine it, if you would.
My gimp is that my BBEG can't use magic. No spells or spell-like abilities. I can use scrolls or wands though.
Human. 1 Monk (Wanderer)/4 Rouge (Knife Master)/5 Assassin/10 Master Spy
Feats
Level 1: Iron Will, Combat Expertise, use Far Traveler from Wanderer to get either Kukri or Kerambit proficiency
Level 3: Quick Draw, Rouge Talent [Finesse Rouge]
Level 5: Weapon Focus [Kukri/Kerambit], Rouge Talent [Combat Trick: Improved Feint]
Level 7: Deceitful
Level 9: Wave Strike
Level 11: Disengaging Feint
Level 13: Greater Feint
Level 15: Improved Critical
Level 17: Critical Focus
Level 19: Bleeding Critical
Stats (25pt buy)
Str: 11
Dex: 15 (+2 racial= 17)
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 16
All levels go to dex. So, any comments/critiques/questions?
1-on-party encounters don't work. Your party WILL win by sheer action economy alone.
Have an entire party of serial killers working together. It's a bit too late for me to think of an entire party of BBEGs at the moment, but I'll think about it and try to suggest something tomorrow.
Stealth and social skills are a must. Ninja, rumormonger rogue, barbarian, archer fighter, possibly.
It could work. What if they never encounter him, but just the extensively boobytrapped lairs he always leaves behind? Kind of like Jigsaw.
Also, who is this character? What is his story? Who does he target? What does he use? etc etc etc.
I always thought a Ranger would make a great serial killer class, what with the Favored Enemy, and the Terrain bonuses, and how great they are at stalking and pursuing.
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If going with this concept, I'd go Ninja 10/Master Spy 10, and use wakizashis. That gives pretty much all the stuff you want, plus a Charisma-based Ki Pool, a variety of supernatural (not spell-like) abilities if you like (and you should), the ability to take Advanced Rogue Talents (many of which are pretty good) by spending Feats on it, and just generally does what you seem to be aiming for better than your current build. At least, IMO.
You'd obviously seriously rearrange Feat choices, but frankly Rogue-type + focusing on criticals too heavily is a bad combination, since Sneak Attack doesn't multiply on a critical.
Feat wise, I might do something like this:
1: Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
2: Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick)
3: Quick Draw
4: Ninja Trick (Combat Trick: Two Weapon Fighting)
5: Weapon Focus
6: Ninja Trick (Forgotten Trick)
7: Deceitful
8: Ninja Trick (Any one you like. )
9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10: Ninja Trick (Invisible Blade)
11: Extra Rogue Talent (Crippling Strike)
13: Anything
15: Extra Rogue Talent (Skill Mastery - Bluff and stealth, plus whatever others you'd like)
17: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
19: Anything
Note: If you're willing to bend the rules a bit, you can use the 13th and 19th level Feat Slots to get Evasion and Greater Evasion. But that requires more transparency between the Ninja Tricks and Rogue Talents list than there technically is. It's definitely what I'd do, though.
This build lets him Greater Invisibility as a Swift Action, which, due to Master Spy's Mind Blank, pretty much can't be seen through. This allows his Sneak Attacks to apply to basically all attacks, gives him some solid defense against just being attacked and, as an added bonus gives a great visual of people just exploding in blood and dying with no visible cause.
If supernatural abilities don't work for you, then obviously this build won't...but in that case why did you include Master Spy, which has loads of them?
1-on-party encounters don't work. Your party WILL win by sheer action economy alone.
Have an entire party of serial killers working together. It's a bit too late for me to think of an entire party of BBEGs at the moment, but I'll think about it and try to suggest something tomorrow.
Stealth and social skills are a must. Ninja, rumormonger rogue, barbarian, archer fighter, possibly.
I have no intention of engaging in a straight up fight.
It could work. What if they never encounter him, but just the extensively boobytrapped lairs he always leaves behind? Kind of like Jigsaw.
Also, who is this character? What is his story? Who does he target? What does he use? etc etc etc.
I always thought a Ranger would make a great serial killer class, what with the Favored Enemy, and the Terrain bonuses, and how great they are at stalking and pursuing.
They will encounter him, but never with the same face twice. I don't have a firm backstory for him yet, other than generic serial killer. Wanna get the build first. When I do I'll send you a pm if you're still curious.
1) What level are your PCs? Because a group of well built PCs of 14th level or higher will quickly locate this guy and take him down. No offense, but he has no ranged attacks and very mediocre Will and Fort saves. So once they find him (and with medium-level divination spells and skills, this shouldn't be a challenge), they stand off and zap him with ranged attacks and save-or-suck spells.
2) What's your intended role for this guy? BBEG at the end of a dungeon crawl? Secret mastermind behind an evil organization? Or just a Jack the Ripper type killer that the PCs must track down and defeat? -- If the latter, think long and hard first. You're setting up a detective/investigative/mystery type scenario, and those are much harder than they seem.
Doug M.
And when I say "harder", I mean "harder to play through and have fun with", not "harder mechanically for the PCs". While it is possible to do mysteries in PF, the system isn't really designed for it. It's easy to end up with a bunch of annoyed, frustrated players making random attacks on the butler or whoever.
Also: note that in combat, high level rogue builds tend to be glass cannons -- good at dishing out sudden shocking amounts of damage, but fragile both in terms of AC/hp and saves. So, the most likely outcome of a melee is "rogue build pops up out of nowhere, gains surprise and wins initiative --> rogue build cuts one PC's throat with massive SA damage --> other PCs dogpile rogue build with attacks and spells --> rogue build dies in a round or two."
Doug M.
You should probably check out the Master Spy class, which this guy is. That would address many of your points. And I have no intention of engaging the PCs in a scenario where I don't have extensive advantages. For example, I wouldn't try and fight the entire group.
If going with this concept, I'd go Ninja 10/Master Spy 10, and use wakizashis. That gives pretty much all the stuff you want, plus a Charisma-based Ki Pool, a variety of supernatural (not spell-like) abilities if you like (and you should), the ability to take Advanced Rogue Talents (many of which are pretty good) by spending Feats on it, and just generally does what you seem to be aiming for better than your current build. At least, IMO.
You'd obviously seriously rearrange Feat choices, but frankly Rogue-type + focusing on criticals too heavily is a bad combination, since Sneak Attack doesn't multiply on a critical.
Feat wise, I might do something like this:
1: Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
2: Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick)
3: Quick Draw
4: Ninja Trick (Combat Trick: Two Weapon Fighting)
5: Weapon Focus
6: Ninja Trick (Forgotten Trick)
7: Deceitful
8: Ninja Trick (Any one you like. )
9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10: Ninja Trick (Invisible Blade)
11: Extra Rogue Talent (Crippling Strike)
13: Anything
15: Extra Rogue Talent (Skill Mastery - Bluff and stealth, plus whatever others you'd like)
17: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
19: AnythingNote: If you're willing to bend the rules a bit, you can use the 13th and 19th level Feat Slots to get Evasion and Greater Evasion. But that requires more transparency between the Ninja Tricks and Rogue Talents list than there technically is. It's definitely what I'd do, though.
This build lets him Greater Invisibility as a Swift Action, which, due to Master Spy's Mind Blank, pretty much can't be seen through. This allows his Sneak Attacks to apply to basically all attacks, gives him some solid defense against just being attacked and, as an added bonus gives a great visual of people just exploding in blood and dying with no visible cause.
If supernatural abilities don't work for you, then obviously this build won't...but in that case why did you include Master Spy, which has loads of them?
For some reason I had completely forgotten about the ninja. That is excellent. I will definitely reevaluate. That will certainly make things much easier. Thanks.
Thank you everybody for your comments and suggestions.
1-on-party encounters don't work. Your party WILL win by sheer action economy alone.
Have an entire party of serial killers working together. It's a bit too late for me to think of an entire party of BBEGs at the moment, but I'll think about it and try to suggest something tomorrow.
Stealth and social skills are a must. Ninja, rumormonger rogue, barbarian, archer fighter, possibly.
IE: The Following?