Using your Intelligence bonus skill points only for intelligence skills

[YASD]

So our GM was getting cranky that at, level 12, my wizard was rocking 12 skill points/level between class, intelligence and the human bonus skill. His (correct) point is that at that level of skill a wizard makes a better skill monkey than a rogue does and that that level is enough to max out most of the critical skills (arguably about half of all of the 'useful' skills).

After thinking up various ways to nerf skill points, I was wondering about the viability of limiting the bonus skill points one gets to just intelligence based skills. While this won't have much impact on a 'book-work' type wizard, it does prevent a wizard who can afford to get magic skills (and knowledge) to decent levels while also getting huge face and sneaking skills.

Is this too much of a nerf or are there unseen consequences I am not seeing?

[Aratrok]

You'd end up basically forcing high Int characters to take skills that they don't actually want, and limiting player choice significantly. The wizard in your example would only be able to be good at a tiny handful of non-Knowledge, Appraise (which is almost worthless), and Craft skills, and would be forced to take knowledges irrelevant to his interests, like possible Nobility or Engineering.

[aboniks]

I see where you were going with this, but I'm not sure it actually makes sense, thematically speaking.

Being smarter can actually make you better at pretty much every non-int skill in the list. Acrobatics, as an example. You may not be any more dextrous, but you are smart enough to learn what the limitations of your own body are, and how to exploit them to the best effect.

Personally I'd find a different justification for the nerf, and approach it a different way mechanically.

That said, this is going to be a house rule test, so the wider implications beyond your character aren't really a huge consideration. Go with what works for you and the DM. Worst case, it doesn't work out, and when you retire this character the rule goes away.

Just my 2cp though.

[YASD]

Thanks for the replies.

As I said, this would be a nerf and honestly it does not make much more sense than allowing the skill points to go anyway (as abonicks stated).

The biggest weakness is that every intelligence based caster will end up knowing everything.

The biggest strength is that keeps int based casters from being the best skill monkey in the game (in addition to generally primary casting).

The other alternative was to just give int based casters zero base skill points per level.

It is possible that our GM was just being cranky.

[Avatar-1]

An easier fix might be to have int-based classes use wisdom instead of intelligence to determine skill points.

It's a bit messy, but it should accomplish what you're trying to do. A rogue would still use int to get skills, a wizard would use wis. Neither class gets their primary stat doing both.

[Gherrick]

Perhaps just tweak the ratio of Int bonus to skill points. Try using a 2:1 ratio of Int bonus.

[rainzax]

there are 10 Knowledge skills (!), plus Appraise, Linguistics, Spellcraft, and many Craft skills. that's at least 14+ possible skills. plus traits which modify other skills to key off of INT.

i kind of like this rule i think. it echoes 1ed/2ed "# Bonus Languages"

if you do this, maybe offer a feat that grants +1 skill point per HD (similar to Toughness).

[HaraldKlak]

YASD wrote:

Is this too much of a nerf or are there unseen consequences I am not seeing?

I get the idea, and don't it is too much of a nerf per se. But I do think there is unforseen consequences.

It probably hits non-wizards, more than wizards.
So I am a fighter, and want to utilize more than 2 skills? Tough luck.
So I am a paladin or cleric who wants to be Mr. Face? Sure you can get diplomacy and bluff, but that all the skills you got.

Ultimately, it could make Int the go-to dump-to-10 stat for others than arcane prepared casters.

[Calybos1]

You could reduce the ratio, as Gherrick says, or just set a cap: Int over 18 doesn't grant any additional skill points.

[anthonydido]

I don't think the wizard class needs a nerf. One of the niches of the class is you get a lot of skill points. Sure, if you max out non-class face skills like diplomacy and bluff you can be a good face character but, unless you take a trait to give it to you as a class skill or feats to boost it, you will never be better than the class that has it as a class skill and maxes it.

So even if the wizard maxes stealth, the rogue will almost always be better because of his high dex.

At that level GMing becomes a science. Players have many ways to do things (especially with a wizard in the party) so the GM needs to be ready for just about anything.

EDIT: deleted some stuff because I read the OPs post wrong.

[marcryser]

Since you're talking about a home rule, where anything goes, you could divide skills into 'physical' skills, 'social' skills, and 'knowledge' skills.

Characters get their class skills (based on class alone) and then get bonus skills of each category based on their stats in those categories.

Bonus 'physical' skills: Based on str, dex, con stat
Bonus 'social' skills: Based on cha or wis
Bonus 'knowledge' skills: Based on Int

Treat the stat as intelligence, then give bonus skills at half the normal rate (minimum 1 if a stat is high enough to give a bonus)

Under the normal system a Wiz with 18 int would have 6 skill points/level.

Under this system, a wiz with 18 int 14 con, and 12 cha would have 2 class skills, 2 knowledge skills, 1 physical skill, and 1 social skill.

[Gilfalas]

One home rule would be that only native Intelligence points give skill points. That way magic +int items don't grant you skills out of nowhere (beyond the skills already granted in some of their descriptions). That is how we handle it in our home game.

That goes a long way to handling issues like this.

It also means you don't have to separately track what skill points are in what skills based on the bonus points from the magic item.

But adopting the rule that bonus Int skill points only go into Int based skills completely kills off other classes abilities to have skills at all. It will even make the skill monkey rogue worse in comparison than it was before.

[christos gurd]

MDT had an elegant solution to this problem.

mdt wrote:

Halve the # of skill points each class get's per level. So, Fighters/Wizards get 1, Rogues get 4, Bards get 3, etc.

Grant everyone skill points equal to their stat bonuses that can only be spent on skills associated with that stat.
So, someone playing a fighter with the following stats :
Str : 16 (+3)
Dex : 14 (+2)
Con : 16 (+3)
Int : 10 (+0)
Wis : 12 (+1)
Cha : 8 (-1)
Would have the following skill points to distribute :
Class : 1
Str : 3
Dex : 2
Wis : 1
Cha : -1
So they'd be very good at physical stuff, not so good at mental, and awful at charisma things.
You were allowed to trade 2 of one stat skill points to get 1 of another (so 2 str's to get one cha for example) to indicate concentrating more on diplomacy than on climbing or swimming.
Finally, if you had a negative stat, and you wanted to spend points on it, you had to spend enough that level to 'overcome' the negative. So from our example, if you wanted to put a point into diplomacy, you had to put spend your class point (1) to negate the -1 charisma skill level, then trade in two attribute skill points (1 str/1 dex, 2 str, 1 dex/1 wis, etc) to get another Cha skill point.
This worked really well, it gave people more skill ranks overall, but it also meant they usually ended up with skill curves that fit their stats, those who were smart ended up with lots of INT based skills, those who were really strong but not so bright (18 str/8 int) usually ended up with lots of climb and swim and not so many Knowledge skill.
EDIT : Note class skill points were 'unaligned' and could be spent on any skill.