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requesting some advice on how to make this class work.
My concept is haveing a Lawful Neutral Shifter with the Bear Bloodline. that is a monk/druid. I figured that the natural armor gain from the shifters racial abilities would help with the lack of actual armor, and the druids ability to shift into animals while still useing improved grapple and improved unarmed strikes should be benificial.
The smartest way to make it work, is to make it a Dex/Wis build. Combine Qinggong Monk and the standard Druid with -whatever-Domain. The Str/Wis wouldn't be disqualified from this, you would just be taking a lot more damage in the longrun due to the lower AC, a much small iniative, a much lower reflex save and touch AC, a lower CMD, and a few other not so great perks for just a smidgen more static damage. It's not worth it in my honest opinion. Anyways, I can list all of the Feats, Bonus Feats, Class Abilities, as organized as I can if you wish, but I'll hold off until I see a response.
QMonk1/Druid4/QMonk5/Druid4/QMonk6 - In that order. That is probably the most graceful growth of this class combination.
Perks:
Very High AC
Very High Damage
Various Forms and Immunities
Enhanced Movement
Ki Pool AND Spells
All Around High Defenses
Great Attack Value
Up to 15 Attacks per Round
Superb at Combat Maneuvers
A good selection of Class Trained Skills
The list goes on....
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I may have to build this and see how it functions with the way we are starting. What would you use for wild shape?
Please do build it and test it! I'm trying my best to do that as well, preferably without overpowering the field(assuming this thing could do so, as it has the damage potential).
This build greatly depends on what your DM will allow for your Amulet of Mighty Fists. It seems that half the DM population generally doesn't carry over the Guided enchantment from D&D 3.5, into their strict Pathfinder games.
.............................Kazumetsa Raijin; Monk of the Shoata Fist and Exile of Carrenia.............................
Attribute Paths:
Strength and Wisdom():
Recommended for mostly Beast/Magic Beast Early Elemental. Overall, not recommended. Snake Style and Combat Reflexes would be essentially pointless for this build. At most, you'll get 6 attacks per round(maybe more with a form I don't know about). I advise seeking a different Style tree, or different feats entirely. I cannot say much about this build, as I have yet to experiment with it, and it seems inferior to the others on paper. Natural Attacks or Flurry still work with this build.
Dexterity and Wisdom():
Recommended if mostly Air Elemental and Cat(for the pounce). This is obviously best for Air Elemental, or anything that increases Dex. Pretty much the opposite of Wisdom based(next paragraph).
Wisdom and Wisdom():
Recommended if you use Multiple Forms. No matter what form you choose, you'll always use your Wisdom for attack/damage. It'll always be the same, so less math to deal with. In the longrun you sacrifice that attack/damage, Reflex Save, and potential AoO, for more Spells, higher Will Save, Skills(Sense Motive in particular), and higher DC to all Spells and Monk Abilities.
Your Primary Purpose:
Purposely provoking Attack of Opportunity - You want to do this, as often as possible(or to the limit of your Dex Mod+1), for more chances at returning those attacks at your opponents. Don't be cheesy and run in and out of their threatening area repeatedly. Run through fields of opponents, or stick to one foe. Do not fear your lack of Improved CMB options, for the AoO are welcome. When you get to return that attack, it can be damage, trip, disarm, or a sunder. Put them to good use.
Damage - Be careful with this, as it could break the typical Adventure Path and/or unbalance combat for you and your team in a bad way for any campaign. Your primary will be Unarmed Strikes or Natural Attacks(if you are going Wisdom based, and later retrain Weapon Finesse to Feral Combat) for damage. Your Monk level will eventually hit 12, you'll have Monastic Legacy adding an additional 4 levels of Monk AC/US Damage, and you'll have a Monk's Robe capping you out at 20. By level 15, you should have the necessary gear and feats, and will be fully optimized. Your Wildshape Sizes and Strong Jaw are your best friends in Greatly changing your Unarmed Damage and Static Damage(to Colossal at the most). You will eventually reach 12d8 per Unarmed Strike or Natural Attack(with Feral Combat Training)+Static+Other. The highest mod in Str you'll get is probably a 14, the highest mod in Dex you'll get is probably a 13, and finally the highest mod in Wis you'll get is probably a 10. These Attributes are a combination of Your Starting Attributes, Size Bonus to Attributes, Attribute Gains from Levels 4/8/12/16/20, Enhancement Bonuses. Flurry is the best way to deliver these attacks, but Natural Attacks work fine too. Snake Style helps to greatly support giving more attacks no matter what form you stick with.
Defenses - You have very high levels of CMD, saves, and each AC. Not to mention nearly all of the defensive perks of the Monk class(their last 8 levels aren't that fantastic, though I wish I didn't have to give up Quivering Palm) in combination. You need to be the guardian and the "wall" of the group. Put them to good use, and do not fear your opponent. Between either Mage Armor/Shield(from a good friend or a wand), Barkskin, Ki Pool, Natural Armor, Dex, Ring of Deflection, Monk AC Bonus(especially), AC and AC Bonus(if you have the coin for Wild Enchantment), Full Defense, and Wildshape forms; You are Golden.
Flavor - You can truly flavor this however you want. This fits quite a number of backgrounds. To help with the RAI of Unarmed vs Natural attacks and Flurrying in Beast/Elemental/Plant form, you can simply use the strength of your paw or headbutt, as opposed to extending and using your claws or teeth. Remember that since you are Monk, you are entitled to using any part(nearly but to an extent) of your body as your Unarmed Strike.
Fighting Tactics - If you're 20, then pounce is outdated vs Abundant Step(and it's combined Dimensional Feats) and it will work for any form. At lower levels(below 5) you should move in with Scorpion Style, Spell, or Trip initially. Next round, assuming things were successful, stunning fist, trip, disarm, and otherwise bludgeon them. Once you have Snake Fang, start having the courage to purposely provoke and run through many enemies, then stopping at one target and beating on him. With each AoO they take, you will more than likely return it along the way and while you're there. This includes the AoO's from when you provoke for using Combat Maneuvers. Delicious. Damage spells aren't really what you should prepare. Keep spells that are of odd Utility, Enhancing your Team, or Hindering your Opponents. You will use these very selectively. Control the field as best as you can first, then do damage as best as you can second.
The Build:
Format: Feat -> Class Ability -> Bonus Feat
LvL 1 Weapon Finesse -> IUS, FoB, Stunning Fist -> Combat Reflexes
LvL 2 xxxx -> Nature Bond, Nature Sense, Orisons, Wild Empathy, Wooden Fist -> xxxx
LvL 3 Natural Spell -> Woodland Stride -> xxxx
LvL 4 xxxx -> Trackless Step -> xxxx
LvL 5 Shaping Focus -> Resist Nature's Lure, Wild Shape x1 -> xxxx
LvL 6 xxxx -> Evasion -> Scorpion Style
LvL 7 Snake Style -> Fast movement, maneuver Training, Still Mind -> xxxx
LvL 8 xxxx -> Ki Pool(Magic), Barkskin -> xxxx
LvL 9 Snake Sidewind -> Purity of Body, Ki Stand -> xxxx
LvL 10 xxxx -> xxxx -> Improved Trip
LvL 11 Snake Fang -> xxxx -> xxxx
LvL 12 xxxx -> Wild Shape x2, Aura of Decay -> xxxx
LvL 13 Monastic Legacy -> xxxx -> xxxx
LvL 14 xxxx -> Wild Shape x3 -> xxxx
LvL 15 Dimensional Agility -> Ki Pool(Cold Iron/Silver), Power Attack -> xxxx
LvL 16 xxxx -> xxxx -> xxxx
LvL 17 Dimensional Assault -> Improved Evasion -> xxxx
LvL 18 xxxx -> Ki Pool(Lawlful) -> Medusa's Wrath
LvL 19 Dimensional Dervish -> Diamond Body -> xxxx
LvL 20 xxxx -> Abundant Step -> xxxx
Recommended Equipment:
Neck: Amulet of Mighty Fists +4 w/Guided or Agile
Chest: Bane Baldric
Body: Monk's Robe
Armor: Padded Armor +1 w/Brawling
Waist: Belt of Incredible Dexterity +6
Eyes: Not Sure
Feet: Boots of Speed
Hands: Not Sure
Head: Not Sure
Headband: Headband of Inspired Wisdom +6
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance +5
Wrists: Not Sure
Finger 1: Ring of Freedom of Movement
Finger 2: Ring of Protection +5
Slotless: Lord's Banner of Victory
Slotless: Ioun Dusty Rose Prism
Slotless: Ioun Dark Blue Rhomboid
Slotless: Ioun Pale Green Prism
Slotless: Ioun Orange Prism
Recommended Base Attributes(Before Racials+Others):
Str: 10-14
Dex: 16-18
Con: 10-12
Int: 10-14
Wis: 16-18
Cha: 7-10
***Remember: Be very considerate for your DM and fellow Players. Just because you have the potential, doesn't mean you have to use it.***
Also, there is no possible way I've covered everything possible with this build. There are still many mysteries in it!
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Rough base is druid 8/monk 4/Brother of the seal 8.Get the feats that boost shapeshifting level so you can get huge size. The trick is to get as much stuff that will boost your size or effective size as you can for biggest hits with unarmed strike.
Brother of the Seal isn't necessary, and can be made up for with Monastic Legacy and Monk's Robe. :P
Druid has all the size enhancing things you could want/need. It maximizes at Strong Jaw + Huge Wildshape(Total of Colossal). You can't go any higher than that as Size Bonuses to the same thing do not stack, and only the better one takes over.
It's not that the size curve stoa at colossal, it's just that when an effect makes you hit as if you were two sizes bigger (strong jaw) it doesn't stack with effects that make you hit as if you were one size larger (hands of stone).
There are stacking rules for bonuses, but this isn't specifically a bonus, it doesn't give you a +1 to hit or your CMB or your damage.
I agree with you that it does stack with actual increases in size (such as from Wild Shape or Enlarge person), as it is a "virtual" increase, but would it stack with another virtual increase?
In other words, if you can cast Strong Jaws, does Improved Natural attack do anything?
prototype00
