I have never been a fan of the Free-to-Play model simply because I believe that something that is free has no value. However, I have come to realize that the Free-to-Play model can be an excellent way to attract large amounts of both positive and negative players alike.
The question is how to attract and keep the positive players of a Free-to-Play system while minimizing and rejecting the negative players.
I believe a community-based model is the solution.
Every MMO that I have played recently has been a 'single player game within an MMO environment'. This sacrifices the sense of community for ease of play.
So how do we rectify the situation? I propose the following:
- Subscribed PfO Players volunteer to be 'Mentors'
- All Free-to-Play players are required to create both a PfO Game Client login and a Pazio Forum account login
- All Free-to-Play players will be redirected to a 'Free-to-Play/Mentor' Pazio forum thread where they will request a 'Free-to-Play' pass
- Subscribed PfO Mentors will generate a Free-to-Play pass using an in-game command(eq:/genf2ppass).
- Each Subscribed Mentor will have a fixed amount of Free-to-Play passes that they can generate, which can be used to limit the Free-to-Play population
- Subscribed PfO Mentors will respond to the 'Free-to-Play/Mentor forum thread' and hand out their F2P passes.
- After character generation, the Free-to-Play player will be prompted to enter their 'Free-to-Play' pass
- Upon Free-to-Play player login, the Mentor and Free-to-Play player are added to each other's in-game friends list
My initial PRO/CON list:
PROS:
- This promotes the PfO community
- This provides in-game mentorship. F2P players won't log in and wander around like 'Baby Huey' wondering what is going on
- This is an excellent Company/Settlement recruitment tool
- This is (hopefully) enough of a convoluted process so that it deters at least some griefers
- Limiting the number of Free-to-Play passes per Mentor can be used to limit the Free-to-Play population
- Allows Mentors to police offensive character names as they are created
CONS:
- Makes trying PfO more of a convoluted process
- Requires PfO Mentors to watch the forums 24-7-365
I have no doubt that this is a flawed system, but I believe the general concept is workable.
The more elitist this game gets, the more likely it is to bomb. I wish I could think of some clever wordplay to get that point across, but there it is. This game needs to be accessible, and that system flies in the face of how an MMO is supposed to work.
Sorry. It's good to come up with radical ideas, so don't let this discourage you from posting them here.
EDIT: The problem with this system is that it assumes that good players = dedicated players. In truth, the vast majority of MMO players start out as casual players who get more invested over time. A system that makes it impossible to casually enter the game is not going to stop real griefers, it is the griefer.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The point of a F2P option is to dramatically reduce the barrier to entry for new players. Putting a barrier to entry back in defeats the purpose, and making it labor-intensive is expensive in terms of moderator time, which is the same thing as money.
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I can't stand MMO elitism. I outright despise a small percentage of players 'Lording' over the rest.
I believe that in order for an online community to thrive, it must first a) be a community and b) be challenged enough to grow. Within this challenge there will be winners and losers but I hope that PfO is able to find a healthy balance.
Per my original post, I refer to the first Goblin Works blog A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step
From the 'Big Things Come in Small Packages' section:
At launch, and for the first seven months following, we will cap new paying players at 4,500 per month. Four thousand five hundred new paying players monthly. We expect to keep only about 25% of those players on a long-term basis, so after we factor in attrition of each month's signups, we end up with 16,500 paying players at the end of that seven-month period.
This game is starting small, which is one of the things that really appealed to me. I didn't propose a Free-to-Play/Mentor gateway to limit new players. Once Free-to-Play is implemenmted, they were already going to be limited.
The reason I posted what I did is because I have played so many MMOs where I started the game and there is no sense of community. I end up wandering around, figuring things out on my own. This isn't to say I'm looking for someone to lead me by the nose, quite the contrary, I would describe myself as a 'Lone Wolf'. But it's the human interaction that makes a game worth playing for a long period of time. Otherwise, you are left with zerging through content and then yawning until the developers present something new.
Goblin Squad Member
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Lol actually I posted a thread about this just this morning, but it got a little buried ^^ I'll just link it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not the same exact topic, so I'll keep that a separate thread. But anyway, Really it is up to the players for this.
Make no mistakes: THIS IS A GAME THAT LEADS ITSELF TO ELITISM.
The best nation, the best company, the best at teaching newbs, or acquiring land, or whatever.
And to be perfectly honest those forms of elitism are fine. If someone is able to kill, outsource, whatever they have the right to brag even if they are going to be little @!#$& when they do so.
What we need to control is the flip coin of that. The people who take "I'm the best" and turn it into "You're the worst" the people who say "I am better than you" and those types. This will need to be monitored with constant vigilance and is one of the things I am dedicating my character to clearing up: the humbling of the proud is his alma mater.
As Beleriand states, however, we are going to be starting small. This says to me two things:
1) We can create a strong precedent of mutual respect and healthy boasting between comrades (Better to control it than try to prohibit it in this instance, and what friends don't like a little banter now and again?)
2) We will be the power base, the "best" at least starting up. By being here early on we will have the advantage of position and level, or at least of knowledge of mechanics. This means that naturally, with the exception of a few quick learners and their groupies, we are the ones who are going to be the beginning's "elite" society.
I really would recommend reading through my linked thread, as it covers a lot of the issues brought up by Decius and Beleriand.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@myself:
On the subject of elitism.
Friendly elitism:
"Man, we are so good, Brian ;) we totally beat you in that last one!"
"Haha, yeah but we got you the time before!"
"2:1 baby... 2:1..."
Constructive elitism:
"I'm the best. Here is how I did it, if you need help I can show you some of the basic steps, and from there you can step off into your own."
Negative:
"Our guild is the strongest. Yours cannot even compete, so don't even try."
"Oh look, another batch of newbies. Go back to crusader road where you belong!"
Summary:
Obviously there is a line here, and sometimes it is very fine. So basically if it is with a friend in private and both of you do it all the time to each as a joke it is fine. If you are doing it with a friend, or new battle buddy that is fine, just make sure you listen to everyone, and don't go overboard. Constructive is fine, but make sure you are not demeaning or overboard.
When in doubt, just don't say anything at all, and if someone protests stop immediately and apologize.
Anything that is like "well yeah SOME people could see it that way" is generally a no, or at least only in private with people you know are completely fine with it.
Golden Rule people: DON'T BE A JERK
This game is starting small, which is one of the things that really appealed to me. I didn't propose a Free-to-Play/Mentor gateway to limit new players. Once Free-to-Play is implemenmted, they were already going to be limited.
That limit is only for the first seven months, though, and it's not for free-to-play players at all. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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I never really understood how PFO can be FTP when you have to pay for XP. If you do not spend any dollars you will be locked into a level 1, no-skills character, that can not even earn in-game gold that he could convert to game-time (if that gets implemented ever). In other FTP games you can earn xp just fine and grow more powerful, it is just that the game offers less convenience and content. In PFO your powercurve is locked behind a paywall. And I like that just fine, btw.
In fact I love PFO's monetization scheme because now I can just buy the monthly xp, and then work towards goals and achievements in the game. That is so much better for me then having to grind xp, even though I expect some achievements to be somewhat grindy; I also like how characters are locked to a certain maximum xp per month. The "getting more powerful" is now more about learning to use your skills and the workings of the Game of Thrones and not so much about an xp-race to the top.
I do not understand why not more games use Eve's and PFO's monetization scheme: there must be more people that are willing to have (a few)subs on autopay, earning xp for their character. If even for later use. I am sure many Eve-players do this, even in times they are not playing much, just to keep the skillpoints coming in. If the game is any good off course.
I understand that some players will rather buy an xp-package here and there and not put a sub on autopay, but in the end it is the same thing; pay, or get to play a pretty much useless character.
I am all for letting players get a taste of the games atmosphere though, so in that regard FTP is good in my book.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well if you but enough in game gold you can buy those packages with said in-game gold. So it takes a while for a new FTP character but it is possible. I also imagine the low levels will be rather cheap.
We will just have to see.
That said, I also like this monetization scheme, even if it can appear to some as a PTW system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, it could be that for the first monthly packages of xp, you can buy a relatively large amount of skills so new players can get into the game quicker. It would make sense. This would still require a purchase though. GW has said that because of the skillsystem, a new player can become usefull rather quickly so that is a very good thing.
But I do not see how a no-skill character could earn a lot of gold, unless he is sponsored by someone, which wouldn't really make that character FTP in my opinion. Maybe play the auctionhouse-game but you would still need starter capital for that. Not even sure if the old "buy low/sell high" will work in PFO. :)
I also agree with your assesment that some people will consider this PTW. I hope they can see beyond that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, it could be that for the first monthly packages of xp, you can buy a relatively large amount of skills so new players can get into the game quicker. It would make sense. This would still require a purchase though. GW has said that because of the skillsystem, a new player can become usefull rather quickly so that is a very good thing.
But I do not see how a no-skill character could earn a lot of gold, unless he is sponsored by someone, which wouldn't really make that character FTP in my opinion. Maybe play the auctionhouse-game but you would still need starter capital for that. Not even sure if the old "buy low/sell high" will work in PFO. :)
I also agree with your assesment that some people will consider this PTW. I hope they can see beyond that.
No-skill character making money?
Back to the daily grind...
Hate how that sounds? Deal. There are so many things in this, and GW already said all characters, new or old, can contribute meaningfully. There are SO many things you can do in this there is no way you can't acquire currency. I mean, I plan on traveling from PoI to PoI, Settlement to Settlement and force political issues. Just the process of going there to there I will make gold in the form of loot from wandering monsters. At the very least, after enough of this you will have enough to buy a skill package, then enough for two. Then three. And so on
I mean ssssshh...eriously.
Also, having it this way reduced multi-boxing. The effort per individual will have to go up, or the money paid will have to.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not see how you would defeat a wandering monster when you did not buy any xp and have zero skills. Well, maybe the low level mobs near NPC starter-cities but I do not see you getting rich from that.
I could be wrong, maybe a completely FTP character can grind his way to a few skill packages in a few months. It does not sound fun though, not because of the grind but because you are a weakling all the way through.
What will you do with your no-skill character when you get pulled out of fast travel in an ambush?
"So where is this ambassador that was supposed to mediate here?"
"yeah, got killed again"
You could go with a seasoned group, but why would they want to keep carrying a no-skill character?
I do see some use for FTP characters (if they are even allowed to log in while they are not accumulating xp, this is still a questionmark):
Throw away scouts;
We have been told that new players will be wanted by Settlements because populationcount increases the DI: however I am not sure if Settlements are interested in players with no skills; also maybe the increase in DI is dependent on the level of skill of the character.
This needs a lot of tweaking: else people will create 10 accounts, make as many newbie characters on each account as allowed, and then start padding the population count of a Settlement. You can even log them all in at the same time, from the same account.
There will be all sorts of restriction I Imagine, and making sure that characters cost money to use/maintain sure is a way to do that. Not saying the only way, or the best way(it is hurdle after all), but certainly a way.
Maybe I am missing something, it could be that characters start out as being viable combatants or harvesters (to a point) without having spent a single skillpoint;
Or that you also get xp from killing lowbie monsters (I hope not);
Or even that buying a single month worth of XP already makes a huge difference.
If players get some basic harvesting skills from the get go, and they just roam the NPC starter areas for low-level resources then I guess there may be something to do for FTP characters. This could even apply to harvesting the nearby resources of a player-settlement(there are resources in a settlement hex, right?).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think PFO is only going to be subscription-based for Early Enrollment:
Because the game design will be evolving during Early Access Beta, we don't feel it is appropriate to monetize through micro-transactions. We will require anyone participating in Beta to be a subscriber. After Release, we plan to roll out a hybrid microtransaction/subscription model. It will be easier to tune that model and make sure it works for all players then.
This is good for a combination of reasons. It means we don't have to worry straight away about the F2P wave.
I suspect, by the time F2P is ready or more accurately "MTX" (Micro-Transactions pricing alongside a "sub + benefits" option), Goblinworks will have been able to work it into the game appropriately and selectively; tutorial option before the NPC starter towns will have more theme-park content, the NPE (New Player Experience) will be more fleshed out to feed into the theme-park content nice and dandy if some players want to test/taste the game via MTX.
By then player-run settlements will be as content rich and more dynamic for player then wanting to experience more of the game - which will require a social transition/commitment. And players will be forming their own methods of recruitment in NPC towns to integrate already there for again by-passing for players straight into the thick of it.
So it's all about successive transitions that allow players flexibility and which blurs the world from tutorial, new player experience, themepark friendly islands and the deep blue sea beyond - where the sharks and krakens lurk (lol).
Speculative Option for MTX differentiation:
Perhaps a month or so after joining a CC or settlement a different form of MTX pops up that due to the above status, excludes the former MTX-newb option and requires a "access-to-trade" MTX or "access-to-membership-MTX" where the influence of the MTX player on the game economy and on other players increases requires a larger minimum MTX commitment per pop?
ie keeping player's time feeding some value into the economy, settlement and/or member player's combined resources, as well as the presence of that player providing value to others by interactions? Possibly Goblinballs will be a nice sweetener provided by settlements for such transition players to join their settlements to pay the first few transition payments to a larger mimimum MTX category?! Atm MTX provides access to skill-training. But you could form categories for group-membership on a more permanent basis and economic rights and even settlement skill-training buildings access over a certain level. It could be lumped together as per "slaves earning citizenship" via service but as paying the higher level as Citizenship access option?
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Goblin Squad Member
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...limit the Free-to-Play population
Unfortunately, limiting Free-to-Play, by definition, makes it no longer free. Can you imagine the commentary the gaming press would deliver?
Ryan's already commented on the difficulties the game may face due to not attempting cutting-edge graphics. Not having Free-to-Play, which I believe may be the correct goal, will give them another hurdle requiring constant explanation; having poorly-implemented Free-to-Play may make that hurdle un-clearable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avenaoats Without buying XP, either through a sub or a MTX, your character will not skill up. At least that is what I understand. So no matter what or when or how, if you want your character to progress, you will need to spend dollars(or ingame gold, which means having a character that can earn that). I do not see much real use for a character that will never buy xp. I probably misunderstood your post though so disregard if I did.
@BrotherZael. I figured that you wanted to travel the world with a level 1 character that had never bought any xp/skills, and I think that will be hard to do, no matter your social/mediating/political skills. But it would certainly be an interesting experiment. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@BrotherZael. I figured that you wanted to travel the world with a level 1 character that had never bought any xp/skills, and I think that will be hard to do, no matter your social/mediating/political skills. But it would certainly be an interesting experiment. :)
Nah, I got a job full of money to blow hah. Seriously though, I'm going to at least go through EE on the subscribe system... obviously xD That said, I probably could make it through the world as a level 1... just... VERY SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWLY...
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Goblin Squad Member
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A relevant, recent post from Ryan:
Here's my thoughts about free to play in Pathfinder Online.
In a perfect world we would have a free to play tier in our pricing system that was truly free to play - you wouldn't have to pay us anything to play the game at least at some minimal level of character ability. Its the ideal way to get a lot of people into an MMO, and once ours has matured to the point where it is robust in many dimensions of development we'd like to have as many people play it as possible as each additional player creates more content for everyone else already in the game.
The downside is that unlike the traditional theme park MMOs which use shards, and which have hard caps on how many people can log in at any one time (a hard cap only works when you have shards because you can just add more shards as the demand exceeds the caps) we will have one server, with no cap (hopefully). So we are bound by server limitations and could easily find ourselves in a situation where we can't keep up with server demand if we had a huge population of free players. In order to keep the environment optimal for our paying players we could find ourselves in a position where we just can't offer a free to play option.
We will probably experiment with a lot of options in the 2017+ timeframe, by which time we should have a pretty good handle on server loads and strategies to keep characters from "over populating" a given area.
I think the key thing to consider right now is that the entire Early Enrollment period (likely 18 months or more), there will be no Free to Play option, but there will likely be lots of constructive discussions about them and maybe even some great ideas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A relevant, recent post from Ryan:
I think the key thing to consider right now is that the entire Early Enrollment period (likely 18 months or more), there will be no Free to Play option, but there will likely be lots of constructive discussions about them and maybe even some great ideas.Here's my thoughts about free to play in Pathfinder Online.
In a perfect world we would have a free to play tier in our pricing system that was truly free to play - you wouldn't have to pay us anything to play the game at least at some minimal level of character ability. Its the ideal way to get a lot of people into an MMO, and once ours has matured to the point where it is robust in many dimensions of development we'd like to have as many people play it as possible as each additional player creates more content for everyone else already in the game.
The downside is that unlike the traditional theme park MMOs which use shards, and which have hard caps on how many people can log in at any one time (a hard cap only works when you have shards because you can just add more shards as the demand exceeds the caps) we will have one server, with no cap (hopefully). So we are bound by server limitations and could easily find ourselves in a situation where we can't keep up with server demand if we had a huge population of free players. In order to keep the environment optimal for our paying players we could find ourselves in a position where we just can't offer a free to play option.
We will probably experiment with a lot of options in the 2017+ timeframe, by which time we should have a pretty good handle on server loads and strategies to keep characters from "over populating" a given area.
you are absolutely correct. In fact, EE is EXACTLY Pay to play. I mean you can't get in really without paying something right?
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Goblin Squad Member
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A relevant, recent post from Ryan:
I think the key thing to consider right now is that the entire Early Enrollment period (likely 18 months or more), there will be no Free to Play option, but there will likely be lots of constructive discussions about them and maybe even some great ideas.Here's my thoughts about free to play in Pathfinder Online.
In a perfect world we would have a free to play tier in our pricing system that was truly free to play - you wouldn't have to pay us anything to play the game at least at some minimal level of character ability. Its the ideal way to get a lot of people into an MMO, and once ours has matured to the point where it is robust in many dimensions of development we'd like to have as many people play it as possible as each additional player creates more content for everyone else already in the game.
The downside is that unlike the traditional theme park MMOs which use shards, and which have hard caps on how many people can log in at any one time (a hard cap only works when you have shards because you can just add more shards as the demand exceeds the caps) we will have one server, with no cap (hopefully). So we are bound by server limitations and could easily find ourselves in a situation where we can't keep up with server demand if we had a huge population of free players. In order to keep the environment optimal for our paying players we could find ourselves in a position where we just can't offer a free to play option.
We will probably experiment with a lot of options in the 2017+ timeframe, by which time we should have a pretty good handle on server loads and strategies to keep characters from "over populating" a given area.
Ideal situation would be when the 2017+ timeframe comes around and GW starts to think about F2P. We have enough "paying" players that GW doesn't think the server would be able to handle the influx of F2P players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avenaoats Without buying XP, either through a sub or a MTX, your character will not skill up. At least that is what I understand. So no matter what or when or how, if you want your character to progress, you will need to spend dollars(or ingame gold, which means having a character that can earn that). I do not see much real use for a character that will never buy xp. I probably misunderstood your post though so disregard if I did.
Tbh I was getting carried away on a wave of transitions of MTX players from tutorial upwards. Just a thought experiment.
Pretty much, to progress as you describe. But to transition players via pricing options and what value per option, the wider access to social and economic options have value and pricing them even just a tiny bit higher MTX even if not intended to generate profit in theory could symbolize paying for wider access to the game (interactions such as major groups or trading options). Could even be some custom of the River Lands that wastrels convert into "show a scrap of paper with a ink seal on it" suggesting they come to the RiverK's with a "note of recommendation" that is required etc etc. :)
On a related note, you want players to pay and play for their entertainment not pay to not play! Leveling devalues WoW. ~ by Simon Ludgate
Hello everyone!
i am checking the site and the forum alot the last year as i am very interesting in pathfinder online game.
Ryan said that he probably follow turbine's hybrid model.
and that the game will start as subscription only.
they will switch to hybrid later on.
Turbine's Hybrid method offer 2 types of payment
-the subscription payment that you own all the content as your subscrption is active.
-another method that you can permenant buy adventure packs-classes or races.
the 2nd option is just a flexible way to pay.starting as f2p thats its something like a free trial.
BrotherZael you said we have to pay to get xp?never heard of anything like that.its something i missed to read or its a speculation?
the only thing i saw from Ryan is that you get xp over time from the first moment your char is created.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hello everyone!
i am checking the site and the forum alot the last year as i am very interesting in pathfinder online game.Ryan said that he probably follow turbine's hybrid model.
and that the game will start as subscription only.
they will switch to hybrid later on.
Turbine's Hybrid method offer 2 types of payment
-the subscription payment that you own all the content as your subscrption is active.
-another method that you can permenant buy adventure packs-classes or races.
the 2nd option is just a flexible way to pay.starting as f2p thats its something like a free trial.BrotherZael you said we have to pay to get xp?never heard of anything like that.its something i missed to read or its a speculation?
the only thing i saw from Ryan is that you get xp over time from the first moment your char is created.
You get XP for a month based either on a Subscription or eventually a MTX purchase. No grinding for XP and such.
i see thanx for the reply.
you know if there is a cap?like 1 package per char per month or something?
or you can stack package over package?(really dont like that idea)
yep i know that there is no grind for xp but its the first time i heard something about the xp pack.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hello Tolath and a warm welcome to the forums with good questions like that.
You may find the "Nihimonicon" useful (as we call it) for unofficial faqs, links, quotes and guild links etc.
you know if there is a cap?like 1 package per char per month or something?
or you can stack package over package?(really dont like that idea)
I think your character can buy a ton of skill-training time in advance but can only be skill-training one thing at a time: So rate is always constant for all characters for all skills all the real time. The character would then need to fulfill achievements and the like as well as the time-ticker for skill-training being activated.
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Goblin Squad Member
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i see thanx for the reply.
you know if there is a cap?like 1 package per char per month or something?
or you can stack package over package?(really dont like that idea)yep i know that there is no grind for xp but its the first time i heard something about the xp pack.
You'll probably find most of the answers you want in Are You Experienced? You might also check out Kickstarter Community Thread: Subscriptions & Microtransactions for more info on the kinds of things you can buy.
Hope you find these links helpful :)
Hello AvenaOats i am reading the forums and Goblinworks blog more than a year but its the first time i post in the forums.
Nihimonicon hehe i will take a look.
so the xp package will make you generate xp for X amount of time.
nothing like double the xp rate or give you a huge amount of xp right away.right?
ah sorry for all that questions.
Questions make us feel relevant, so don't be sorry. ;D
And you are right. Here's a key quote:
Our time-based system means that no character can advance past a certain point in real time regardless of how much game time the player invests. We can thus build our design plan around a much lengthier calendar than a typical theme park MMO. We'll be able to ensure that game systems get lots of testing at each stage of the character power arc before the next stages come available. And we can also ensure that we don't have max-power characters running around in the game for a very, very long time, which promotes our ideas about long-term focus and commitment to the game.
According to this, there will be no way to speed up progression, meaning that buying extra xp will not be possible.
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yep really thanx Nihimon.
ok all very helpful guys.
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Goblin Squad Member
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i see thanx for the reply.
you know if there is a cap?like 1 package per char per month or something?
or you can stack package over package?(really dont like that idea)yep i know that there is no grind for xp but its the first time i heard something about the xp pack.
yo, if you are at all familiar with league it is that setup. The skill packages are supposed to be purchased with in-game gold, much like the EVE system.
When I mentioned we are going to be paying for the EE I was referring to the store deals or kickstarter packages we have that allow/allowed/are allowing us the opportunity. Take that as you will
Welcome Tolath!
Ideal situation would be when the 2017+ timeframe comes around and GW starts to think about F2P. We have enough "paying" players that GW doesn't think the server would be able to handle the influx of F2P players.
Yeah, this thread is about 3 years too early, if not more.
I really hope they avoid Turbine's hybrid model. It discourages people from subscribing in favor of simply buying adventure packs.
The thing that you can trade store good in game its fine.
i was against that for years but its better for the company to get the money than gold sellers.
yep i wanted to be sure there is nothing game breaking in the store.
btw we are out of topic.sorry for that.
about the mentor system i see some good points but overall the f2p trick is like a trial.you let people log to your game see it a litle and decide if they continue to play it.
nothing to worry about.
yep i agree i was playing ddo for alot of years.and at some point i switched from subscription to simple buy adventure packs.
but that move with hybrid payment saved the game some years ago.
also a subscription requires a Credit Card.I am from europe and i experienced alot of issues with my credit card being rejected in games from USA companies.so i had to use an alternate method and no subscription.
for me its good to have alternate payment methods and to be sure that people that want to play the game they can play it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know why i said "league" earlier...
@Tolath
GW is based in Seattle which, if you know anything about, is kidna of a techno savvy place. The compannies there do A LOT of overseas deals with other nations, primarily china, japan, australia, and france so I am sure it won't be THAT bad. But then again I really wouldn't know the GW and your setup (nor do I wish to... HAX). :S
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hehe not sure either but alot of people experienced the same issues.
anyway we will find a way to play the game :)
i say we because from the moment i heard about the game more than a year ago until now i persuaded alot of friends to play it.
in truth the game persuaded them just i had to speak about his futures and give a link.:)
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Goblin Squad Member
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In my opinion the phrase FTP should never be used in regard to PFO, it could give people the wrong impression. Microtransactions, sure, a store where you can buy titles and xp-packs, sure but Free to Play suggest that you can actually get a real taste of this game without paying a single dime. For a truly new player who does not have wealthy friends (or alts) that is simply not true in my opinion. The Pay for xp/skills-method just clashes with Free to Play, unless Play means login and forever be gimped.
I think if GW would ask money for the client and advertise that FTP is an option after the purchase, that would almost be fraud.
I propose the term FTL or FTWA: Free to Login or Free to Walk Around.
I also think that Free to Login is asking for trouble in a game like this, as Ryan already hinted at. And those were only the technical issues he hinted at.
Once again I must add that I love the Pay for XP method, in case people only read this single post.
I think GW could offer something like a trial period where new players get 2 weeks worth of XP to play with; after that they either subscribe, buy an XP-pack or they don't, and stay gimped. I expect gimped characters that do not accumulate xp to not be played much: they are most likely abandoned by new players that did not stay. So these characters will not be straining the server much after those first weeks.
There is always the possibility that these characters will be used as scouts or as part of a gimp-squad, but that is an entirely separate problem imo.
I could see changes down the road that would make it easier for new players to catch up though: maybe now we expend a 1000xp for +1 Stamina. 5 years from now they could make it so that a 1000xp will yield you 2 or 3 Stamina. You would still have to pay for XP but you would get more bang for your buck, so you can catch up a little.
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Goblin Squad Member
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FTWA? Did this man just say Fatwa?
Welp I guess its Fatwa America and its allies! (operation flashpoint: red river quote).
That said the microtransactions are "Skill" packs for money. However in game those packs can be sold for "the coin".
by the way, from now on I am saying "the coin" for money
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have read the blogs. Not sure why you think we think differently about how you can acquire xp though.
I do not think that a low level gatherer that has never put any skills(money) towards gathering, will be able to make enough money in a month so that he can pay for his second month. I think someone that *did* put xp/money towards Gatherinskills will quickly be much more proficient in it. This does not necessarily mean the low level gatherer becomes useless, but I think the higher level gatherer will be able to make more money, since he will be able to harvest higher levels goods (and maybe more of it).
So what could be the in-game worth of a month of XP?
In Everqest, that is about 300.000 Platinum. I can assure you that no truly new player will be able to earn that much money in a month, not by a long shot.
Now Everquest is not PFO, and it has a topheavy playerbase and a somewhat borked economy, but still. Even I, with several high level characters would have to apply myself in a grindy and boring way to earn that much platinum in a month.
Assuming that PFO's economy is healthier, and there is a never-ending demand for low-level resources (I think this will fluctuate heavily), I still think that it will be very hard for a new player to earn 15 dollars worth of in-game assets in a month.
You also have to keep a simple fact in mind: the moment it becomes *way* to easy for players(any players) to earn enough in-game coin to buy skillpacks, GW is biting their own hand. They have to find a balance between creating a low hurdle for new players that want to try the game, and still earn good money.
I think an unskilled newbie being able to earn a month worth of xp in a single month would already flip that balance to the wrong side.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You also have to keep a simple fact in mind: the moment it becomes *way* to easy for players(any players) to earn enough in-game coin to buy skillpacks, GW is biting their own hand. They have to find a balance between creating a low hurdle for new players that want to try the game, and still earn good money.
I think there's an angle you might not have considered.
Players won't be buying Goblin Balls with in-game Coin unless another player has already bought those Goblin Balls with real-world money and then put them on the market. It doesn't really matter to Goblinworks how expensive or how cheap the Goblin Balls are in-game; they've already gotten their money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Goblinballs will always have a serious worth in in-game coin. Why would I sell my 15-dollar goblinball for in-game coin that I can most likely make 10x easier then a new character with no skills?
I have not seen Kronos in Everquest go under 250k, in fact they go up in price.
Even Whales that will buy huge amounts of goblinballs to keep their settlements going will want to see a serious amount of in-game coin for them. More then an unskilled new player can produce imo.
I will admit though that this is one (horror)scenario that in the end could make goblinballs somewhat purchaseable for a newbie: a high-end game full of Whales that spend thousands of dollars to keep their Wars going, always needing in-game coin and basically paying for a contingent of players that are prepared to feed this appetite. Since the money is coming in from one end, GW does not mind it is not coming in from the other end.
Not pretty, not likely but possible I guess. :)
Maybe GW has a plan where "FTP" players get to do all the mundane tasks that high level paying players can not be bothered with, and balance that out money-wise?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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If nobody has much fun grinding coin for Goblin Balls, I expect that the price will settle down to about $1/hour at standard coin-per-hour rates. Much less, and too few people will buy Goblin balls with coin. Much more, and too few people will sell Goblin Balls for coin.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If nobody has much fun grinding coin for Goblin Balls, I expect that the price will settle down to about $1/hour at standard coin-per-hour rates. Much less, and too few people will buy Goblin balls with coin. Much more, and too few people will sell Goblin Balls for coin.
Depends on the standard coin-per-hour rate. I can make thousands of platinum per hour with my level 86 in Everquest. With a level 5 I could make maybe 50 platinum an hour.
50 platinum would be 0.02 % of the amount needed to buy a single Krono worth 15 dollars.
Not saying these numbers port over between these two, quit different games. Who knows a settlement may reward any new citizens with a Skillpack because they are so much in need of a populationboost. I noticed that settlements may charge taxes(as mechanic or otherwise): these taxes could go towards buying skillpacks for ingame coin. So there are a lot of unknowns in this. There could be some unexpected outcomes which only makes the game more interesting. :)
But a truly newbie character trying to earn enough gold from killing level 1 rats to buy a skillpack just does not sound viable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Something we are not considering is that a new player can use high level items. maybe not to the fullest but still.
This means you can get a level 1 with level 10 gear killing level 5 skeles and sahuagin and whatever. This will be a slow-buildup, slow gaining system, but it works.
A ftp account is just going to have to accept being a bit behind the powercurve of a highly specced character. Eventually I think this wall will go away, but as mentioned earlier it will be a long time coming.
My only problem with this system is that once we do go full open it will be a major deterrent. For quite a few folks I imagine. I don't know though, I guess it will just curtail the amount of bad players that get into the game.