My search-fu is seriously lacking as I couldn't find a definitive answer in the forums, so I'm asking here.
1: Does Greater Grapple give +2 to Grapple CMD or is it an outlier from all the other Greater-type feats?
2: Does Improved Grapple and other feats/items/class features that give "+X to Grappple CMD" increase the CMD for the opponent to break the grapple? In a sense, this question is kind of asking whether or not breaking from a grapple is considered a grapple check or a combat maneuver check?
From what I've turned up RAW-wise, Greater Grapple does not give the CMD bonus. Also breaking a grapple isn't a grapple check, nor by RAW is reversing a grapple.
Grapple Rules Link
Under "If You Are Grappled", it says you can attempt to break out of the grapple as a Standard Action by making a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check, and if successful you can become the grappler instead.
first and last bump?
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hi Chooky
Improved Grapple give +2 to CMB and CMD so in essence it is a seperate grapple check. breaking the grapple will be against the higher CMD whereas a bullrush or any of the other Combat maneuvers will be against your normal CMD
additionally if you are having trouble looking for feat descriptions there are two great resources one at Paizo Feats
and d20pfsrd both are great
Thanks for the reply Humphry!
Unfortunately, the feat Improved Grapple only states that it gives the +2 CMD against grapple checks, where the rules under breaking a grapple states you make a combat manoeuvre check and not a grapple check (to break free).
The arguments that I've found on the forums say (without proof or backup) that the bonus defence given by Improved Grapple only works when an opponent tries to grapple you, but not when they are trying to break free from your grapple.
1. No. The feat does what it says it does and no more.
2. The text says that you get a +2 bonus to CMD "whenever an opponent tries to grapple you". Since an attempt to break free from a grapple is not an attempt to grapple you (i.e., the grapple action, the grab ability, etc.), you do not have a bonus to CMD versus escape attempts. Yes, this makes grappling kind of suck, as escape difficulty does not really take the grappler's skill into account as much as it probably ought.
I believe the question was whether Granger the Greater Grappler had a +2 bonus to CMD when Mork the Orc tries to escape Granger's grapple, thus making it more difficult for Mork to escape due to Granger's skill at grappling. (Please let me know if I'm wrong in that belief.)
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Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.
So, no +2 to CMD.
@blahpers: Yup, that's question no.2!
@Nefreet: By RAW, it's that simple I guess. No +2 CMD vs Grapple. Just felt weird since all the others did. Ah well.
I know, terrible necro, but had to point out that *none* ofthe greater maneuver feats increase CMD vs the maneuver, only the Improved ones.
As for reversing/escaping a grapple not being a grapple check... I don't think that holds any water.
I know, terrible necro...
As for reversing/escaping a grapple not being a grapple check... I don't think that holds any water.
reverse-grapple sure, but escaping depend on HOW you try to escape the grapple.
i have stated this on the other thread just the other day.