As many have posted before me and many more will after me, I'm in the process of getting ready to run RotR AE.
I expect to be getting together with my players in the next few weeks for character creation and would like to use some of the options from Ultimate Campaign.
For character creation I would like to make the background generator available and specifically use Story feats for each character to help add some more depth to the game than just the AP.
I'm trying to decide what route to go with when using them?
A. Give every PC a Story feat for free in addition to normal starting feats.
B. Replace the non-Campaign Trait with a Story feat. Thus allowing 1 Campaign Trait and a Story feat.
C. Require a Drawback, but instead of getting a Trait you get the Story feat.
Thoughts?
Second has anyone used the Downtime rules with this AP and if so how has it gone? What kind of things have your PC's done?
Thanks
JD
I'd go with D. Require the Story Trait but also allow a Drawback if wanted in order to have non non-story Traits.
Hello!
A story feat for free is not necessarily unreasonable, but make sure that if fits with the story. I remember that some of the story feats will have little to no chance to be completed within the Adventure Path as written.
I would recommend the option to trade in both 'traits' for 1 story feat. But give a list of ones that are appropriate and/or re-edit them to fit the adventure path.
I don't like the drawbacks, because the list of available ones are too narrow. You can certainly let them take a drawback, and that is your prerogative as DM, but forcing a drawback is... not desirable.
And as for downtime, the runelords is pretty flexible as far as timelines are concerned. So it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
My rule of thumb: Between chapters, they can have whatever time they need. 'During' a chapter, I have a planned timeline from Start to finish, so if they spend time sitting in town crafting items or earning gp, then the villains will achieve "X" on "Y"
During "Burnt Offerings" Nualia was going to raze Sandpoint on Halloween (31st of Lamashan), which happened to be the night of a new moon.
Since the adventure started towards the end of September, they had a full month to stop her.
After chapter 1 was finished, they took about a month to heal, craft items, RP some relationships, court some NPCs, retrain a feat or two, etc. And then when they were ready, I started chapter 2.
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
I thought he was talking about the Campaign Traits - you get two under the optional rules, with the Drawback providing a potential third one.
I've no idea about the viability of Story Feats. They seem rather ambiguous and depending on the whims of the GM.
I have been able to fit a story feat in pretty easily - there's often fun stuff you can do with those to foreshadow other APs, which is cool. For example, I have a half-drow in my party who took the Nemesis feat, and I built a whole subplot about him being hunted down by a certain group from Second Darkness that I think we all enjoyed, and when we eventually play that later the payoff will be even better. (I have plans to eventually get through all 3 of the 3.5 Varisian APs with this group). Not every story feat is going to fit, but as long as you as DM are involved in vetting what your players pick I think they're probably one of the best systems in Ultimate Campaign.
All that said I wouldn't necessarily force them to take story feats. Just leave the option out there; the rewards are at least as good as a regular feat generally speaking so I think they're tempting enough as it is.
The downtime system on the other hand I'm not sure works very well here. RotR is very inconsistent in terms of when it puts time pressure on the PCs and where they are, so I think an inability to manage that stuff the way they want will annoy some players.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Ian - You make a good point about not forcing the players to take the story feats. Its good to see an example where using them has worked out for someone.
Bacon - I agree that giving the story feats for free will not be that big of a deal, but wanted to make sure I wasn't way off.
JD
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RotRL is my first AP, but here's what I went with.
- 15 point build.
- Paizo books allowed, with the exception of Advanced Races chapter that allows you to build your own race.
- Two traits plus a AP trait from the RotRL Player Guide.
- Up to two flaws (we used Tome of Secrets) for either 8 skill points or 1 feat. All flaws must be prior approved since they need to have an effect on a character (-2 melee flaw is kinda useless for a guy who only uses a bow and carries a half dozen with him).
- A background that logically ties them to Sandpoint. Some were elaborate, some were simple. I had a lot more fun with the elaborate ones and wove new plot lines into the over reaching story. Only one player gave a barebones background, so he didn't get a side quest story.
- I used the downtime rules from UC. They're... okay. Basically, if you follow the downtime rules to allow them to build their own business/houses, and then tie in the event rolls, it slows down the game A LOT. We spent three sessions dealing with the first month of down time. It got very tedious. VERY tedious. We didn't return to it. But, I had nine players, and made the mistake of introducing a Szcarni plot in the pregame that seriously distracted players. If you have a small group, the downtime stuff is fine, but for larger groups, I suggest you handle the downtime stuff away from the table, and stick with dealing with the roleplaying AT the table.
William - Thanks for the info on your experience with the Downtime rules. Reminds me of the time we spent dealing with our kingdom in King Maker. Which took up a lot of time and could be tedious as well.
I will have to take a close look at what's involved and possibly make a lite version or just skip them for this campaign.
I was hoping it would help add more depth to the characters but don't want it to end up taking away from the campaign to do that.
JD
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I briefly considered utilizing the Downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign, when one of my PCs suggested he was interested in setting up a magic shop in Sandpoint. Then I looked at the book, and realized those rules add tedium and a level of bookkeeping to the game I'm not interested in tracking. When my eyes recovered from glazing over, I told him that, if he was interested, we could work that out the old-fashioned way: RP and hand-waving.
The retraining rules, however, make a lot of sense to me, and I'm allowing those, but the building rules don't interest me in the slightest. YMMV, though.
I briefly considered utilizing the Downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign, when one of my PCs suggested he was interested in setting up a magic shop in Sandpoint. Then I looked at the book, and realized those rules add tedium and a level of bookkeeping to the game I'm not interested in tracking. When my eyes recovered from glazing over, I told him that, if he was interested, we could work that out the old-fashioned way: RP and hand-waving.
The retraining rules, however, make a lot of sense to me, and I'm allowing those, but the building rules don't interest me in the slightest. YMMV, though.
I had the same reaction when one of my players told me he wanted to play merchant. I looked through the UC Downtime rules and also decided that it would be way more trouble than it's worth. In the end, I told him if he wants to play merchant, that character has to retire from adventuring.
- I used the downtime rules from UC. They're... okay. Basically, if you follow the downtime rules to allow them to build their own business/houses, and then tie in the event rolls, it slows down the game A LOT. We spent three sessions dealing with the first month of down time. It got very tedious. VERY tedious. We didn't return to it. But, I had nine players, and made the mistake of introducing a Szcarni plot in the pregame that seriously distracted players. If you have a small group, the downtime stuff is fine, but for larger groups, I suggest you handle the downtime stuff away from the table, and stick with dealing with the roleplaying AT the table.
One of the best things I did was to have the downtime stuff take place in forums on Obsidian Portal between sessions when the plot allows.
Keeps things moving, allows them to make things and/or earn some money. The depth of RP can fluctuate based on the player's needs/desires. (Some enjoy talking to every shopkeeper, employee, rival, etc. While others just do checks and rolls and earn/spend capital on the 'events' that occur during downtime.
Seems to be a viable mix. So far.
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon