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So, level 20 Kensai Magus is walking alone in the woods. A bandit prepares to attack the magus, and then charges.
At 13th level, a kensai may always act and may draw his weapon as a swift action during a surprise round, though he is considered flat-footed until he acts.
The surprise round ensues, both people roll initiative (Kensai gets an automatic 20, for a final somewhere between 40 and 50 initiative). The bandit does well, rolls a 14, and gets a 19.
What happens? Can the Kensai charge the bandit before the bandit even acted? It is an EX ability, which is explained with the following:
"Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics."
So, should I just say that the Magus has an ability to see a couple seconds in the future and react to it accordingly?
How should I roll with this, and other related situations?
Seems legal but you still can only take a standar or move action during surprise round.
Remember in the surprise round only the "non surprised" people can act.
With that ability what happens is the Kensai gets to draws his sword, but remains flat-footed. The bandit still charges him and gets a nice bonus to attack against the kensai, possibly dealing SA damage.
Next round, Kensai gets to "act" for the first time.
Sounds like the ability is a bit of a danger sense, but just enough to draw a weapon even when unable to detect where the attack is coming from :P
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Skull is not correct.
Your Magus may act in the surprise round. This means he/she gets his/her normal standard action, plus the swift action that the ability calls out.
If you roll a higher initiative, you get to act before the bandit.
This happens with a few other classes as well. The Sohei, and the Bodyguard Archetype for Animal Companions (plus others I'm sure).
I'd chalk it up to him sensing something is wrong/going to happen.
He cannot see the bandit, before he show himself, to make a counter-charge.
But he could ready an action to respond to the threat.
The problem is, the whole point is made irrelevant by this fact:
Iaijutsu Master (Ex): At 19th level, a kensai's initiative roll is automatically a natural 20 and he is never surprised. This ability replaces greater spell access.
If you're at the level where your initiative is automatically 20 then you're at the level where you are never surprised. Hence, there is no surprise round to deal with and neither side will be flat-footed.
Edit: Also, out of curiosity, how do you get +20 - +30 to initiative? I'm guessing some kind of initiative boosting focused feat chain?
The problem is, the whole point is made irrelevant by this fact:
Iaijutsu Master (Ex): At 19th level, a kensai's initiative roll is automatically a natural 20 and he is never surprised. This ability replaces greater spell access.If you're at the level where your initiative is automatically 20 then you're at the level where you are never surprised. Hence, there is no surprise round to deal with and neither side will be flat-footed.
Firstly, it doesn't happen until lvl 19, so the point is not irrelevant.
Secondly, having a single character auto-succeed on acting in a surprise round, doesn't invalidate it.
As soon as a single is unprepared for a battle, we go into surprise action mode.
The problem is, the whole point is made irrelevant by this fact:
Iaijutsu Master (Ex): At 19th level, a kensai's initiative roll is automatically a natural 20 and he is never surprised. This ability replaces greater spell access.If you're at the level where your initiative is automatically 20 then you're at the level where you are never surprised. Hence, there is no surprise round to deal with and neither side will be flat-footed.Firstly, it doesn't happen until lvl 19, so the point is not irrelevant.
Secondly, having a single character auto-succeed on acting in a surprise round, doesn't invalidate it.
As soon as a single is unprepared for a battle, we go into surprise action mode.
Go back and read the OP again. Or here, let me quote it for you:
So, level 20 Kensai Magus is walking alone in the woods. ... The surprise round ensues, both people roll initiative (Kensai gets an automatic 20, for a final somewhere between 40 and 50 initiative). The bandit does well, rolls a 14, and gets a 19.
Go back and read the OP again. Or here, let me quote it for you:
So, level 20 Kensai Magus is walking alone in the woods. ... The surprise round ensues, both people roll initiative (Kensai gets an automatic 20, for a final somewhere between 40 and 50 initiative). The bandit does well, rolls a 14, and gets a 19.
Fine, you are correct. I made the assumption that the question might want to clarify something a bit more generel than the example.
The answer doesn't really add anything though. The problem of "Can I charge an enemy who haven't shown himself?" is there, whether it is a normal combat round, or a surprise round.
The answer doesn't really add anything though. The problem of "Can I charge an enemy who haven't shown himself?" is there, whether it is a normal combat round, or a surprise round.
My answer pointed out the flaw in the OP scenario, you can't have a surprise round if the Magus is getting an auto 20 to the initiative roll. It is entirely possible that this is a point that was unknowingly overlooked by Frodo.
Your first reply answered the question if the flaw is taken out of the scenario.
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The huge bonus is from having a high intelligence and high dexterity, since a Kensai can add his intelligence to his rolls. This particular magus in question (theory crafted, of course) has 36 intelligence (tome + levels + headband + 20 start) and 24 dexterity. Add that with a dueling weapon, reactionary, and improved initiative and you'll always go first :).
With sandals of quick reaction, the magus would get a move and standard action. Even with just a standard action, charge is still a valid option.
So the consensus is to not be able to react to the opponent who hasn't revealed themselves but has declared they are going to perform an action against me?
Should said character get a check to see if there's something up? Or should it be a "I'm about to be attacked, gotta prepare myself!"?
How can you not have a surprise round if the magus got an auto 20?
I think the point is rather that the lvl 19 ability part "is never suprised". If noone is surprised that combat is about to take place, there is no call for a surprise action.
So the consensus is to not be able to react to the opponent who hasn't revealed themselves but has declared they are going to perform an action against me?
Should said character get a check to see if there's something up? Or should it be a "I'm about to be attacked, gotta prepare myself!"?
No check to see if something is up, since you already auto-succeed the perception check that covers this.
You might make a perception check to locate the hidden enemy, but that would require you to spend your move action, so you can't charge.
In some circumstances you might be able to react before something happens. A guy drawing a hidden blade to attack you, could result in your drawing faster, and chopping him to pieces (but maybe bystanders haven't noticed him drawing a weapon...).
In other situations, such as an invisible attacker suddenly stabbing you or shooting you with an arrow, finding out where they are, might be near impossible.
In these cases, you are better off, readying and action to make a counter attack.
Oops,
I didn't know about the lvl19 ability. Ive never played a Magus :P
Would be great if people post all the relevant abilities for their questions. lol
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I had a similar conundrum with my Diviner/Rogue and it took me some time (and fumbling) to realize that the correct answer is "I ready a ranged attack against the first creature that takes a hostile action against any of my allies, myself included".
This allows you to damage the enemy caster when he starts casting Confusion ;-)
And, yes, you can feel your Diviner/Kensai/Whatever-sense tingling :-))
It's basically spider sense from spiderman. He knows something bad is about to happen, but may not know what.
What happens? Can the Kensai charge the bandit before the bandit even acted?
If the Kensai notices the bandit yes, otherwise no.
I sort of imagine it as though as soon as line of sight is available the kensai automatically notices and is not surprised per the 19th level ability. Meaning the enemy may be very close is he was stealthily closing, or may be far, but is detected as soon as he leaves cover or whatever.
Also, I think this
I had a similar conundrum with my Diviner/Rogue and it took me some time (and fumbling) to realize that the correct answer is "I ready a ranged attack against the first creature that takes a hostile action against any of my allies, myself included".
This allows you to damage the enemy caster when he starts casting Confusion ;-)
And, yes, you can feel your Diviner/Kensai/Whatever-sense tingling :-))
is just as reasonable as well. It's sort of effectively the same. He charges as you, but you can't see him. The hair on the back of your neck tingles and you know something is about to happen. You prepare yourself to react to whatever is coming (ready an action). As soon as you can see him (or whatever more specific trigger you include) you can act.