Hey everyone,
I'm trying to cost a magic ring that contain the following spells. The associated costs if they were individual items is shown. All three spells have the 30 % discount for requiring a specific class (in this case Ranger)
Hunter's Howl - (Ranger 1), CL 5th (to boost duration to 5 rounds), at will activation, 3/day. Cost 4,200 gc (1 x 5 x 2,000 x (3/5) x 0.7).
Instant Enemy - (Ranger 3), CL 7th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 5,292gc (3 x 7 x 1,800 x (1/5) x 0.7).
Terrain Bond - (Ranger 4), CL 10th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 10,800gc (4 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5) x 0.7).
I'm confused on the rules of combining multiple effects into one item. They're all spell effects and I assume would use the rules on Multiple Similar Abilities. But that rule has discounts for when the item is slotless, and this will be a ring (not slotless).
Does that mean the price would just be the combined cost? Or have I missed somthing?
One when cherry picking spells, chances are very very very underpriced. Reason being they usually give several bonuses (hunters howl being a prime example). In such a case you should price according to the cumulative bonuses from the spell (essentially +2 enhancement as well as all the skill bonuses, that is a more accurate price in such cases). Also I believe that an item should have a constant caster level, not multiple CLs.
Favored enemy is only applicable to rangers, so it shouldn't get a discount as it isn't drawback or restriction. It should be priced according to how much of a bonus it gives (a flat amount of enhancement plus skill bonuses as well). Same thing with terrain bond (for pricing restrictions by class).
Multiple similar abilities are typically things like staves or something like the headbands or belts that supply multiple enhancements to different stats.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
magic ring that contain the following spells.
30 % discount for requiring a specific class (in this case Ranger)Hunter's Howl - (Ranger 1), CL 5th (to boost duration to 5 rounds), at will activation, 3/day. Cost 4,200 gc (1 x 5 x 2,000 x (3/5) x 0.7).
Instant Enemy - (Ranger 3), CL 7th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 5,292gc (3 x 7 x 1,800 x (1/5) x 0.7).
Terrain Bond - (Ranger 4), CL 10th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 10,800gc (4 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5) x 0.7).I assume would use the rules on Multiple Similar Abilities
You missed a lot:
- Discounts for Class restrictions are only when selling not when crafting or buying. So if you make it, you don't get the 30% off. But when you sell it, you are further penalized by 30 % more.
- Items are priced by similar items. There are no similar items to this.
- Items are priced by power when similar items are not available. These effects are powerful. +2 to attack/damage is strong. Plus there should be additional cost because all have synergy together as the "ultimate" ranger item.
- At will means infinite activations.
- Item has only one Caster Level so all effects use the same CL.
- Multiple Similar Abilities are things that use the same resource (Staff, item with 3/day selected from these two effects, etc.)
- Multiple Different Abilities are used for this, with the most expensive being primary and the others being 150% of normal.
Thanks for the responses guys.
One when cherry picking spells, chances are very very very underpriced. Reason being they usually give several bonuses (hunters howl being a prime example). In such a case you should price according to the cumulative bonuses from the spell (essentially +2 enhancement as well as all the skill bonuses, that is a more accurate price in such cases).
Items are priced by power when similar items are not available. These effects are powerful. +2 to attack/damage is strong. Plus there should be additional cost because all have synergy together as the "ultimate" ranger item.
I see what you guys mean here.
However, Hunter's Howl has a Will Save to negate. As a first level spell, the will save will be very low (DC 11 - 16 if WIS is 20 (unlikely)). So I don't find it as powerful as having to price as per a static +2 to hit/dmg/skills etc. Otherwise, as a first level spell, it would be AMAZING.
Also I believe that an item should have a constant caster level, not multiple CLs.
Favored enemy is only applicable to rangers, so it shouldn't get a discount as it isn't drawback or restriction. It should be priced according to how much of a bonus it gives (a flat amount of enhancement plus skill bonuses as well). Same thing with terrain bond (for pricing restrictions by class).
Multiple similar abilities are typically things like staves or something like the headbands or belts that supply multiple enhancements to different stats.
You missed a lot:
Discounts for Class restrictions are only when selling not when crafting or buying. So if you make it, you don't get the 30% off. But when you sell it, you are further penalized by 30 % more.
Items are priced by similar items. There are no similar items to this.
Item has only one Caster Level so all effects use the same CL.
Multiple Similar Abilities are things that use the same resource (Staff, item with 3/day selected from these two effects, etc.)
Multiple Different Abilities are used for this, with the most expensive being primary and the others being 150% of normal.
Ah, ok. I agree with these points. Makes sense.
At will means infinite activations.
I think I meant use activated so as to be not an action compared to a command word.
TBH, I knew the pricing would be too good to be true.
So a more accurate pricing for each as an individual item would be (with the same caster level):
Hunter's Howl - (Ranger 1), CL 10th (to boost duration to 10 rounds), use activated, 3/day. Cost 12,000 gc (1 x 10 x 2,000 x (3/5)).
Instant Enemy - (Ranger 3), CL 10th, command word activation, 1/day. Cost 10,800gc (3 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5)).
Terrain Bond - (Ranger 4), CL 10th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 14,400gc (4 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5)).
And as one item would be:
48,900gc (14,400 + (10,800 x 1.5) + (12,000 x 1.5)).
The closest thing I can compare it to would be an Emnity Fetish (40,000 gc) and Boots of Friendly Terrain (2,400).
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Hunter's Howl has a Will Save to negate.
use activated so as to be not an action compared to a command word.
Saves or not, things are always priced by their bonus. For example you can't make an item that provides AC bonus without using the AC formula despite Mage Armor being a cheaper way to calculate it. The same would be true for a spell that grants a +4 AC and +1 to attack to natural attacks. It's cost would be identical to a combined Bracers of Armor +4 and Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 even if it was a 1st level spell.
Use activated is mostly things like swords. When I swing this sword it activates. So it is for things that work off other actions. Like a divine holy symbol that says "when used to channel it creates and earthquake" etc.
Saves or not, things are always priced by their bonus. For example you can't make an item that provides AC bonus without using the AC formula despite Mage Armor being a cheaper way to calculate it. The same would be true for a spell that grants a +4 AC and +1 to attack to natural attacks. It's cost would be identical to a combined Bracers of Armor +4 and Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 even if it was a 1st level spell.
I agree that a ring that grants +4 to AC continuously would be priced differently (as per the creation rules). I also agree that an item that grants mage armour 1/day is a bogus way to get +4 AC that flaunts the rules and is not in the spirit of the game. Very min/max-y, which I'm trying not to do.
However, some things make me think differently about these items that are spell-replicating items, specifically Hunter Howl.
As an example, I will compare a Hunters Howl Ring (caster level 7 for forge ring) to two +2 weapons. (for a TWF ranger)
The +2 att/dmg/skills from Hunters Howl is not permanently available the same as +2 weapons. All monsters affected by the spell have an opportunity to save against the spell for there to be affect at all. And the +2 att/dmg/skills would only last a number of rounds equal to the caster level. Hence the reason it is priced as spell level x caster level x 2,000. Compare this to +2 weapons which works permamently, against all opponents, and prices are bonus squared x 2,000.
The Hunters Howl Ring would cost 14,000 gc for 5/day, 7 rounds each, and two +2 weapons are 16,000 gc for both. I would say the discount for the HHR is balanced by the limited uses and possible chance the enemies might save against it anyway.
(So why not just buy the weapons? I also have other reasons to try to make the ring).
First ask your GM if he allows custom made magic items. Secondly dont create it because magic item creation in this way is broken.
My advice is buy wands/scrolls with the spells you want. That is cheaper, easier and you dont need to convince your GM that this special custom magic item is not broken.
(So why not just buy the weapons? I also have other reasons to try to make the ring).
Share your cheese with us.
Hunter's Howl gives an untyped bonus to both attack and damage. This makes it more valuable than an enhancement bonus.
As a GM I'd be reluctant to allow this ring to be constructed. I'd prefer to see a themed item such as:
Ranger's Ring: after being worn for eg 24 hours (or a week), this ring allows a ranger to add a new enemy onto his favoured enemy class ability...blah blah add stuff until it did what both you and your GM were happy with it and it's price.
Don't sweat the individual effects except to get example price ranges.
...
Hunter's Howl - (Ranger 1), CL 10th (to boost duration to 10 rounds), use activated, 3/day. Cost 12,000 gc (1 x 10 x 2,000 x (3/5)).
...
Use activatet is when you use the item so it will be cast when you put the ring on. It is not a way to get around the standart action casting time.
And also the DC to resist is gonna be 11( spell level +10 + minimum casting stat to cast)The pricing of custum magic items is somthing the GM should do and not the players. If you are the GM? Then you should consider upping the DC on the hunters howl.
And finally the item need to be at least CL 13 since you have a level 4 ranger spell in it.
|
• At will means infinite activations.I think I meant use activated so as to be not an action compared to a command word.
TBH, I knew the pricing would be too good to be true.
So a more accurate pricing for each as an individual item would be (with the same caster level):
Hunter's Howl - (Ranger 1), CL 10th (to boost duration to 10 rounds), use activated, 3/day. Cost 12,000 gc (1 x 10 x 2,000 x (3/5)).
Instant Enemy - (Ranger 3), CL 10th, command word activation, 1/day. Cost 10,800gc (3 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5)).
Terrain Bond - (Ranger 4), CL 10th (min to cast), command word activation, 1/day. Cost 14,400gc (4 x 10 x 1,800 x (1/5)).And as one item would be:
48,900gc (14,400 + (10,800 x 1.5) + (12,000 x 1.5)).
The closest thing I can compare it to would be an Emnity Fetish (40,000 gc) and Boots of Friendly Terrain (2,400).
What action are you doing to have the "Hunter howl" be "use activated"?
What you are hypothesizing is a quickened Hunter howl, so 5th level spell with a CL of 9 (and that is questionable, as we are using the full caster progression at this point, not that of a ranger).Then the DC is wrong. DC from spells cast by magic items don't change based on the character characteristics. The item always use the minimum value needed to cast the spell. So your Hunter howl DC is 11. 10 +1 for spell level 1, +0 for wisdom 11 (the minimum needed to cast the spell).
Adding quicken to tat will increase the minimum wisdom needed to 15, but the spell would still count as a first level spell for the DC, so the DC of the quickened version would be 13.
Your price seem ok for a standard action version of Hunter howl.
Essentially: reducing the action cost of the action needed to activate an ability increase the item cost.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
However, some things make me think differently about these items that are spell-replicating items, specifically Hunter Howl.
I wouldn't allow it in a game, full stop. At least not priced the way you have priced it.
And finally the item need to be at least CL 13 since you have a level 4 ranger spell in it.
Good catch, I didn't audit his CL spell level/caster level calculation.
What you are hypothesizing is a quickened Hunter howl
DC of the quickened version would be 13.
I agree if he imagines up a "use activated method" (I assume he is imagining "when I swing a weapon") then it should be calculated as quicken.
The first problem is that Rangers never get 5th level spells. So there is no price (at least CL 20 or lower) for a quickened Hunter's Howl.
Also the DC shouldn't change if it was possible. Because it is still a 1st level spell for that purpose. I don't think the DC will increase just because it would be needed for the quickened slot.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
My first reaction as a GM to seeing this proposed item is just "no."
So many flags:
using the pricing chart from the magic item section(yes using the chart is a flag)
using "use activated" to get something as a free action
pricing spells that give bonuses based on the spell/caster level, not on the bonuses
Let's look at what you actually get:
3/day you get a +2 to hit/damage and a bunch of skills, with a DC11 save to avoid. Given the save DC this seems weaker than gloves of dueling, so maybe 13-14k is a reasonable cost. Note that if you set this as use activated "when I swing my weapon" then the first three times you swing will use up all your charges for the day.
1/day you get potentially a +10 to hit/damage and a bunch of skills, depending on your ranger level and how your favored enemies are chosen. We need to price for the +10 as that is possible. It's a standard action to activate but last for pretty much an entire fight. This is tricky as it's obviously not 200k for a +10 weapon, but 40-50k seems reasonable, on the presumption that it's good for 1 fight per day out of 4-5.
1/day you can get similar bonuses to initiative and other skills. 40k seems plausible for similar reasons.
So I get 50,000+1.5*14,000+1.5*40,000=131,000 gp for this uber ranger ring yeahh. Seems a little expensive but it also has a lot of utility. Honestly the "free action" hunter's howl is the least powerful part of this thing, mostly due to its terrible save DC.
Ooh! Is the idea to shake foes and then use Shatter Defenses?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So essentially we are looking at something like a ring of elemental command (ring of the ecclesiarch and ring of the sophisticate are possible examples as well), but nowhere near as powerful. Also note, per page 478 of the core rules ring are generally command word activated items. I'd allow the ring as follows:
Mythraine's Vengeance
Aura strong enchantment CL 13
Slot ring Price 60,798 gp Weight -
Description
Insert description here. On command the wearer of Mythraine's vengeance use the following abilities
Hunter's howl (three times per day)
Instant enemy (once per day)
Terrain bond (once per day)
Construction
Requirements Forge Ring; hunter's howl, instant enemy, terrain bond; Cost 30,399 gp
Hunter's howl (three times per day) 21018 ((1*13*1800/1.67)*1.5)
Instant enemy (once per day) 21060 ((3*13*1800/5)*1.5)
Terrain bond (once per day) 18720 (4*13*1800/5)
Price calculated using the "multiple different abilities" rule. For ease of bookkeeping I would round the price up to 61,000 gp for a cost of 30,500 gp.
First ask your GM if he allows custom made magic items. Secondly dont create it because magic item creation in this way is broken.
My advice is buy wands/scrolls with the spells you want. That is cheaper, easier and you dont need to convince your GM that this special custom magic item is not broken.
I am the GM most of the time, but in this case I am the player. One of my players GM's for me, so he will be the person I consult.
Neither of us have any experience in magic item creation, hence the reason for this thread.
You'll see below why wands/scroll etc is not an option.
Hunter's Howl gives an untyped bonus to both attack and damage. This makes it more valuable than an enhancement bonus.
As a GM I'd be reluctant to allow this ring to be constructed. I'd prefer to see a themed item such as:
Ranger's Ring: after being worn for eg 24 hours (or a week), this ring allows a ranger to add a new enemy onto his favoured enemy class ability...blah blah add stuff until it did what both you and your GM were happy with it and it's price.
Don't sweat the individual effects except to get example price ranges.
I'd probably be fine with this as well. However, I thought it would be easier to cost based on the spells as there as specific rules for that. But as you say, I could use the spell ring costings as an example price.
Use activatet is when you use the item so it will be cast when you put the ring on. It is not a way to get around the standard action casting time.
And also the DC to resist is gonna be 11( spell level +10 + minimum casting stat to cast)
The pricing of custum magic items is somthing the GM should do and not the players. If you are the GM? Then you should consider upping the DC on the hunters howl.
As mentioned, as neither myself or my GM have experience in the matter, I wanted to bring some info to him as a starting point for the eventual item. I'll bring the thought of upping the DC to his attention.
And finally the item need to be at least CL 13 since you have a level 4 ranger spell in it.
A few people have mentioned this. But wouldn't the CL still be 10 if cast by a 13th level Ranger? (Caster level is Ranger level -3)
What action are you doing to have the "Hunter howl" be "use activated"?
What you are hypothesizing is a quickened Hunter howl, so 5th level spell with a CL of 9 (and that is questionable, as we are using the full caster progression at this point, not that of a ranger).
Then the DC is wrong. DC from spells cast by magic items don't change based on the character characteristics. The item always use the minimum value needed to cast the spell. So your Hunter howl DC is 11. 10 +1 for spell level 1, +0 for wisdom 11 (the minimum needed to cast the spell).Adding quicken to tat will increase the minimum wisdom needed to 15, but the spell would still count as a first level spell for the DC, so the DC of the quickened version would be 13.
Your price seem ok for a standard action version of Hunter howl.
Essentially: reducing the action cost of the action needed to activate an ability increase the item cost.
Right, I'd probably just make it command word then to make it easier to work out.
I wouldn't allow it in a game, full stop. At least not priced the way you have priced it.
I'd be grateful to see how you would potentially cost it?
I agree if he imagines up a "use activated method" (I assume he is imagining "when I swing a weapon") then it should be calculated as quicken.
The first problem is that Rangers never get 5th level spells. So there is no price (at least CL 20 or lower) for a quickened Hunter's Howl.
Also the DC shouldn't change if it was possible. Because it is still a 1st level spell for that purpose. I don't think the DC will increase just because it would be needed for the quickened slot.
See above RE: just making it command word.
My first reaction as a GM to seeing this proposed item is just "no."
So many flags:
using the pricing chart from the magic item section(yes using the chart is a flag) using "use activated" to get something as a free action pricing spells that give bonuses based on the spell/caster level, not on the bonusesLet's look at what you actually get:
3/day you get a +2 to hit/damage and a bunch of skills, with a DC11 save to avoid. Given the save DC this seems weaker than gloves of dueling, so maybe 13-14k is a reasonable cost. Note that if you set this as use activated "when I swing my weapon" then the first three times you swing will use up all your charges for the day.1/day you get potentially a +10 to hit/damage and a bunch of skills, depending on your ranger level and how your favored enemies are chosen. We need to price for the +10 as that is possible. It's a standard action to activate but last for pretty much an entire fight.
This is tricky as it's obviously not 200k for a +10 weapon, but 40-50k seems reasonable, on the presumption that it's good for 1 fight per day out of 4-5.
1/day you can get similar bonuses to initiative and other skills. 40k seems plausible for similar reasons.
So I get 50,000+1.5*14,000+1.5*40,000=131,000 gp for this uber ranger ring yeahh. Seems a little expensive but it also has a lot of utility. Honestly the "free action" hunter's howl is the least powerful part of this thing, mostly due to its terrible save DC.
Haha, I like the proposed name. As I was obviously quite off the mark when costing it initially (which I thought might be the case) I also asked for each item costed individually for probably just purchasing one. Good to see your guesstimates for each item as well as a possible whole.
So essentially we are looking at something like a ring of elemental command (ring of the ecclesiarch and ring of the sophisticate are possible examples as well), but nowhere near as powerful. Also note, per page 478 of the core rules ring are generally command word activated items. I'd allow the ring as follows:
Mythraine's Vengeance
Aura strong enchantment CL 13
Slot ring Price 60,798 gp Weight -Description
Insert description here. On command the wearer of Mythraine's vengeance use the following abilitiesHunter's howl (three times per day)
Instant enemy (once per day)
Terrain bond (once per day)Construction
Requirements Forge Ring; hunter's howl, instant enemy, terrain bond; Cost 30,399 gpHunter's howl (three times per day) 21018 ((1*13*1800/1.67)*1.5)
Instant enemy (once per day) 21060 ((3*13*1800/5)*1.5)
Terrain bond (once per day) 18720 (4*13*1800/5)Price calculated using the "multiple different abilities" rule. For ease of bookkeeping I would round the price up to 61,000 gp for a cost of 30,500 gp.
This is fantastic. Thanks very much BlackKestrel. A great start to give to my GM. As questioned above though, would the caster level still be 13 if cast by a 13th level Ranger? Should it not be 10 as caster level for a Ranger is level-3?
Plus the name you've given is almost perfect already! Well done.
Share your cheese with us.
Ooh! Is the idea to shake foes and then use Shatter Defenses?
So here's the rub. I currently play an (Expanded Spell-less) Ranger. I've always played Rangers through 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5, but never liked that they cast spells. The ESR came along and I though, HELL YEAH. Most of their abilities are tied to Favoured Enemies or Favoured Terrain. However, without the spells in question, their utility to help is VERY situational. So the puzzle of how to mitigate this has been bugging me for a while. I mused about creating the item in question to give a "back-up plan" for cases where my character is as useless as (insert something very useless for simile purposes here).
Now the whole point of the ESR abilities is that they are amazing in some situations (against FE and in FT) but really crap in others, so making this item takes away one of the key weaknesses and balancing factors of the class. Hence the reason to make sure what it costs is a big enough opportunity cost to offset the ability it gives.
Funny thing is, since I started this thread I've recently been reading the new Slayer class for the ACG, and I think that ticks all the boxes I want in a Spell-less Ranger. Heck, if that was actually the original Ranger class, I'd be over the moon.
So thanks for everyone's input. I'll still present it to my GM, with the other option to wholesale change my character from from an ESR to Slayer.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
1) thought it would be easier to cost based on the spells as there as specific rules for that.
2) wouldn't the CL still be 10 if cast by a 13th level Ranger? (CL -3)
3) I'd be grateful to see how you would potentially cost it?
1) Specific rules that are to be used as a last resort, after you have negotiated the art form of magic item creation. So if you jump to the formulas, you have failed to follow the rules.
2) Correct
3) I'd price the +2 atk/dmg the same as the old Amulet of Mighty Fists (because it will be used with an effective weapon), so 25,000 gp. The +2
to 5 skills would be 2,000 gp. I'd remove the save.
|
|
So here's the rub. I currently play an (Expanded Spell-less) Ranger. I've always played Rangers through 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5, but never liked that they cast spells. The ESR came along and I though, HELL YEAH. Most of their abilities are tied to Favoured Enemies or Favoured Terrain. However, without the spells in question, their utility to help is VERY situational. So the puzzle of how to mitigate this has been bugging me for a while. I mused about creating the item in question to give a "back-up plan" for cases where my character is as useless as (insert something very useless for simile purposes here).
I have been the GM for a Expanded spell less Ranger (if you mean the one created by Marc Radle). It is a solid class, absolutely not weaker than a normal ranger.
He get a ranger talent at level 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16 and 19, and those are serious bonuses. Then there are the new feats in the book: additional favored enemy and additional favored terrain.I don't know how powerful are the other character in the group but unless they are seriously optimized adding that ring to the list of abilities that you already have and you will have in the future levels risk to outshine most of them in what should be their specific niche.
Note that terrain bonus is a personal range spell and the other two are very specific and work only in favour of the caster, so they are almost personal range spells. Generally spells with that kind of limitations are stronger that other spells of the same level that can be cast on other people. Magic items with that kind of spell are rare as it is hard to balance them when you give the ability to cast a personal range spell to classes that normally wouldn't have access to it without spending resources (mostly skill point in use magic device).
As a GM generally I look closely to items with that kind of spells as they can be easily unbalanced.
Read this chapter of the Ultimate Campaign book. It give some insight on magic item creation.
- * -
Instant enemy is a 3rd level spell. so normally available to a ranger at level 10 (and he need a wisdom of 16 for that). A wand capable to cast it will cost 30.000 gp.
Giving that to a level 5 ranger make a big difference.
When pricing something that give access to that ability you should keep that in mind.
...
And finally the item need to be at least CL 13 since you have a level 4 ranger spell in it.
A few people have mentioned this. But wouldn't the CL still be 10 if cast by a 13th level Ranger? (Caster level is Ranger level -3)
...
Yes, you are rigth of cause.
This is fantastic. Thanks very much BlackKestrel. A great start to give to my GM. As questioned above though, would the caster level still be 13 if cast by a 13th level Ranger? Should it not be 10 as caster level for a Ranger is level-3?
You sir, are correct. Shows you how often I play rangers.
The new cost would be 25809 gp with a price of 51618. Again I would round that up to 26000 gp and 52000 gp for ease of bookkeeping. Sorry it took so long to get back to you.
Hunter's howl (three times per day) 21018 ((1*10*1800/1.67)*1.5)
Instant enemy (once per day) 16200 ((3*10*1800/5)*1.5)
Terrain bond (once per day) 14400 (4*10*1800/5)
For the multitude claiming using the rules to build to the ring is wrong, I say fie on you. What Mythraine is trying to build is perfectly fine and resembles many pre-existing magic items built using the same rules. Your particular taste does not necessarily equal RAW or RAI.
What Mythraine is trying to build is perfectly fine and resembles many pre-existing magic items built using the same rules.You can't just claim this without evidence. Name one item that grants more than one stat boost effect that is priced with the formulas.
Stat boost? You sir, are confused. This is ring that cast spells, it does not continuously boost any statistics. If by stat boost you mean an ability score boost, see belt of incredible dexterity and its ilk, if you mean armor class or to hit rolls, see ring of deflection. The proposed ring is most similar to a ring of elemental command or a ring of the ecclesiarch.
Ring of the Ecclesiarch has evidence for both your arguments. It gives a static bonus to some skills (Diplomacy and Knowledge (religion)) AND allows the wearer to cast Prayer once per day - which provides a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls, as well as all saves as skill checks. Being CL 5th, I would assume the Prayer lasts for 5 rounds, 1/day. However, I can't be bothered trying to break down the pricing for this item (at a relatively cheap 28,500 gc).
I have been the GM for a Expanded spell less Ranger (if you mean the one created by Marc Radle). It is a solid class, absolutely not weaker than a normal ranger.
He get a ranger talent at level 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16 and 19, and those are serious bonuses. Then there are the new feats in the book: additional favored enemy and additional favored terrain.
I don't know how powerful are the other character in the group but unless they are seriously optimized adding that ring to the list of abilities that you already have and you will have in the future levels risk to outshine most of them in what should be their specific niche.
Yep, this is the exact class. And yes, it is a solid class. But I prefer more utility across all potential encounters then high power against some and low against others
In the last adventure I had both absolute kick-arsery as well as impotent nothing-ness. In one encounter I was against Hill Giants (my +2 favoured enemy) in an urban castle terrain (my +4 favoured terrain) and was dishing out ridiculous damage every turn. The other players started to scoff at how many dice I was pulling out - 3d6 from stealth attack, plus weapons, and usually hitting with at least 3 of 4 attacks AND a built in flanker with my Eagle animal companion.
In another encounter I was against some kind of devil in a weird magic terrain. My shortswords weren't even getting through the DR, so all I was good for was providing a +2 flank bonus to the barbarian.
Compare this to the new ACG Slayer. Both have very close sneak/stealth progressions. Slayer losses the animal companion and extra cool stuff (scent as a talent - hell yeah!) but gains the ability to use the sneak damage against all opponents, not just FE's or in FT's.
It's purely a personal choice, but I'm coming to prefer the wider utility of the Slayer. YMMV.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Ring of the Ecclesiarch has evidence for both your arguments.
Removing everything but the prayer leaves approximately 8,400 gp if you multiply chart price by 1.5 for all the non-prayer items.
8,400 gp is probably enough to model a 1/day cost for +1 to attack/damage all allies, +1 saves, +1 skills/abilities, etc.
Ring of the Ecclesiarch has evidence for both your arguments.Removing everything but the prayer leaves approximately 8,400 gp if you multiply chart price by 1.5 for all the non-prayer items.
8,400 gp is probably enough to model a 1/day cost for +1 to attack/damage all allies, +1 saves, +1 skills/abilities, etc.
With no save, I agree. What about with a DC 11 save?
He's not looking for a permanent bonus to stats, he's looking for command-word abilities with modest durations. He doesn't just get these bonuses, he has to spend actions get them. Actions are worth more than a few plusses.
Look at the price of wands. Wands are pretty much universally agreed to be overpriced. A wand of Instant Enemy costs 15,750gp. How much should the same effect cost if it can only be used a single time per day. The spell formula says 10,800gp. That doesn't sound too low to me, comparatively. Or is the wand a insane bargain (unlike every other wand in the game)?
With a DC 11 save, Hunter's Howl is a pretty worthless effect. I'd consider whatever it cost as a balancing factor to any underpricedness.
OP, what level is your ranger? Would this be easier to make a staff in ring form?
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
He doesn't just get these bonuses, he has to spend actions get them.
Actions are assumed to be part of most costs, so something taking an action isn't a reason to discount.
OP, what level is your ranger? Would this be easier to make a staff in ring form?
His ranger can't cast spells or he would just buy cheap wands.
He doesn't just get these bonuses, he has to spend actions get them.Actions are assumed to be part of most costs, so something taking an action isn't a reason to discount.
Almost nothing that gives a static bonus costs an action.
Armour/weapon bonus.
Belt of STR, etc.
Ring of Deflection
Amulet of Nat. A.
ETC
A item that could cast Shield of Faith +2 as a standard action for 10 rounds at a time should cost significantly less than a continuous item.
Yeah i dont agree wands are "universally overpriced". Some spells are great in wands (clw, grease, mount, mage armor), others are bad (blasts, SoS spells etc).
Buffs is the arena wher wands shine, and instant enemy is no exception - mostly due to the fact that instant enemy is a broken good spell.
The other effects can be kinda cheap, but instant enemy is by far the best ranger spell, and if youre giving upp spells for awesome class powers you should not be able to buy them back cheaply.