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I would say an acrobatics check vs. the dragon's CMD. At least that is how I run it as a GM.
I would allow it with a CMB vs CMD check, but there wouldn't be much mechanical benefit to doing so (other than sharing the dragon's square and possibly moving with the dragon if you can make the Acrobatics/Ride checks to maintain your balance).
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CMB vs CMD to grapple, maybe. Not acrobatics vs CMD. If you're successfully grappling, you wouldn't fall, even in the air.
Alternatively if you've got a willing dragon, you're looking at a Ride check. It's probably easily ruled as an ill-suited mount, so -5 to the check. You're probably looking at a Control Mount in Battle DC 20 check, so DC 25. You're probably thinking "but dragons get into combat!" but the wording is:
As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle.
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I would allow it with a CMB vs CMD check, but there wouldn't be much mechanical benefit to doing so (other than sharing the dragon's square and possibly moving with the dragon if you can make the Acrobatics/Ride checks to maintain your balance).
As a rogue u have the advantage of giving sneak attack at every turn.
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As a rogue u have the advantage of giving sneak attack at every turn.I am not sure what you are basing that on. The dragon is certainly aware of you being there, and if the dragon did not want you there he could always twist his head around and bite you, or breath on you.
Sneak attacks can be made while flanking, not only flat-footed, and behind the head of a Dragon is the best place to flank when you're fighting in group.
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Since PF does not have facing, and you are sharing the dragon's space, I doubt if you can say you are flanking the dragon from its back. You would have to be on the other side of it from your party members.
Consistent flank should be the exact opposite side of where the dragon is looking, if u are behind your head then it is acceptable if your friends are in front him.
RPG is not chess board like you are visualizing in your mind, it u adapting the rules to the situation and not the other.
It doesn't need to be against the Dragons CMD necessarily. . . depending on the size of the dragon I'd say just select the appropriate CR for the Acrobatics check to get on-- maybe against CMD or opposed against his Flight check if he tries to shake you off.
Huge CR 30, Gargantuan CR 25, Colossal CR 20?
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It doesn't need to be against the Dragons CMD necessarily. . . depending on the size of the dragon I'd say just select the appropriate CR for the Acrobatics check to get on-- maybe against CMD or opposed against his Flight check if he tries to shake you off.
Huge CR 30, Gargantuan CR 25, Colossal CR 20?
Other good idea.
Thanks.
So it's ok to use the rules to say you gain sneak attack but not ok to use the rules that state you don't actually get sneak attack? Yeah, think I'd rather play under the guy that's going to consistantly apply the rules.
So it's ok to use the rules to say you gain sneak attack but not ok to use the rules that state you don't actually get sneak attack? Yeah, think I'd rather play under the guy that's going to consistantly apply the rules.In the flanking rules = sneak attack enabled.
So if you are on the dragons back and its standing on the ground and there is someone in front of it then you could. . . but if its in flight there wouldn't be any way to flank it.
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So if you are on the dragons back and its standing on the ground and there is someone in front of it then you could. . . but if its in flight there wouldn't be any way to flank it.So it's ok to use the rules to say you gain sneak attack but not ok to use the rules that state you don't actually get sneak attack? Yeah, think I'd rather play under the guy that's going to consistantly apply the rules.In the flanking rules = sneak attack enabled.
Yes, with a party are in the ground fighting him.
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There is a very specific rule for having flanking.
You draw a line from the center of your square to the center of your teammate's square.
If that line passes through opposite sides of your opponent, then you have flanking, otherwise you do not. You cannot possibly draw a line through opposite sides if you are on your target's back.
RLY???
Damn life, u saved the topic. #not.
I'm with Brf, if you're sharing a space, you are grappling. The dragon is flat-footed to your allies, but not you.
Cristiano Marcelino DePaula
AKA: Came onto a rules forum looking for rules, then reverted to personal attacks when he got them.
I'm pretty sure that rogue isn't standing on that dragon, and a dramatic painting doesn't equal rules. You have your own idea of what's happening in that painting, but the rules don't support it. If it's working for your game, run with it. RAW says no.
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Its a RPG guys, not a board static game.
To be really honest Pathfinder is not great at depicting cinematic combat when the rules are followed exactly. There is always GM fiat, but if you prefer a loose cinematic style a less deterministic system might fit your style better.
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I'm pretty sure that rogue isn't standing on that dragon, and a dramatic painting doesn't equal rules. You have your own idea of what's happening in that painting, but the rules don't support it. If it's working for your game, run with it. RAW says no.
Everything can be recreated, is this RPG.
A good DM can adapt checks to any situation.|
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Its a RPG guys, not a board static game.To be really honest Pathfinder is not great at depicting cinematic combat when the rules are followed exactly. There is always GM fiat, but if you prefer a loose cinematic style a less deterministic system might fit your style better.
Correct, I try to respect all the rules, and make checks that make sense in context.
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I'm pretty sure that rogue isn't standing on that dragon, and a dramatic painting doesn't equal rules. You have your own idea of what's happening in that painting, but the rules don't support it. If it's working for your game, run with it. RAW says no.
Not all situations are encompassed in the rules, sometimes improvise to keep the game at a good pace.
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To be really honest Pathfinder is not great at depicting cinematic combat when the rules are followed exactly.
That's odd. My group and I follow the rules VERY closely and we have no problems making it cinematic.
Standing on a dragon like Legolas is impossible by physics and without magic. I laughed as i saw this scene in the cinema (in the same way as 75% of all cinema visitors). You need a glue like 'tanglefood bags' or magic like 'Spiderclimb' for this kind of action.
In your case i would follow different rules. To ascend a dragon you need an 'Acrobatics' or 'Climb' check with the Dragons CMD as DC. To stay on the dragon you need a 'Climb' or 'Ride' check again with the CMD as DC. Staying on a dragon in this way should need some attention so you are limited to a standard action per round (see ride rules). If you fail one of the checks your action is lost. If you fail by 5 or more you are falling prone (to the ground if you where on the back of the dragon).
Regarding sneak attacks .. on my table you wont get a flanking bonus. You friends are not directly on the opposite site of the dragon so the flanking requirements are not meet. The dragon would loose his DEX bonus because he cannot dodge your attacks as long as you 'ride' him. So you can sneak him but with another more RAWish solution.
That is following RAW as near as possible for an uncommon situation.
Standing on a dragon like Legolas is impossible by physics and without magic. I laughed as i saw this scene in the cinema (in the same way as 75% of all cinema visitors). You need a glue like 'tanglefood bags' or magic like 'Spiderclimb' for this kind of action.
Surfers do it all the time. If you have a pair of Elven Slick Shoes, then not even the rough grain of an oliphant can slow you down.
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I'm sure even the most conservative DM (squares and damage only) were thoughtful after read this topic.
You keep insisting that those who stick to the rules all play dull boring games, without anything cinematic, or interesting happens.
That is false, and rude.
This implies that your tendency to break, or bend the rules, makes you a better player, who has more fun, and is just better at gaming.
From here, you are sitting on a high horse, and mocking those who don't play the way you do.
Why?
Well, that's because it is exactly what you are doing.
Take a moment, get off the horse, and remember that just because someone is not having fun the way you do, doesn't make it wrong.
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I'm sure even the most conservative DM (squares and damage only) were thoughtful after read this topic.You keep insisting that those who stick to the rules all play dull boring games, without anything cinematic, or interesting happens.
That is false, and rude.
This implies that your tendency to break, or bend the rules, makes you a better player, who has more fun, and is just better at gaming.
From here, you are sitting on a high horse, and mocking those who don't play the way you do.
Why?
Well, that's because it is exactly what you are doing.
Take a moment, get off the horse, and remember that just because someone is not having fun the way you do, doesn't make it wrong.
To make cinematic scenes is necessary focus to the description of what happens, and not just say que you took 11 damage for example.
SOMETIMES a few extra effects like throwing players in the air by the big impact (explosions, gargantuan creatures attacks, storms, etc).
No makes sense the affected characters stay where they were after the devastating attack.
This is cinematic combat guys, is simple and because of the immersion the player may rather want to climb into a dragon or make other uncommon manouver.
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I have a special rule for asymmetric size in grapples called "Cling". It's in my account lists somewhere. I can't link to it, I'm on my phone.
It's a happy medium between rules and awesome.