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Hey Ray - I think the primary reason to strongly limit credit for playing multiple times is "fun". A lot of players (myself included) will not have as much fun playing alongside someone who has already played through the scenario. Either they appropriately limit their interactions/decision-making (less dynamic table), or they don't and spoil it.
FYI - your original post was correct, as of a couple years back. It used to be any credit after the first time had to be on play,play,play situations.
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It isn't crap that you can only get GM credit 1 time and credit 1 time for playing. Unlimited replay has destroyed other Organized Play campaigns. Maybe PFS isn't for you if you think the above things. There are established rewards for GMing a scenario multiple times. So just because you only get character credit once doesn't mean you are not getting rewarded for running a scenario again.
Boons, hmm, have you read the forums more than just this post to complain about GM rewards? Before season 4 the boons were crap, the items could usually be purchased anyway and people said the chronicle sheets were nothing more than sheets with your gold on it. So mid-season 3, season 4 they started adding cool boons for completing scenarios. They are very well liked. Then in season 5 we got Faction Boons and other boons. Overall they have been generally well liked.
You keep bringing this topic up like it hasn't been discussed before and like your thoughts are original thoughts, I can assure you they are not, and it isn't going to change despite what you say or think about GM rewards.
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http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?state=4801:5059hh.2.1&f=toc&a_s earch=&p_s_ALL=DM
there we go, the only DM on the trademark solely listed as DM is a clothing line.
Chris bolding, Gm is not going to stop people whom have been using the term DM for more then 30 years.
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Have you read the forums more than just this post to complain about GM rewards?
Admittedly no, that's why I come to the Boards to ask -- you guys will have waaay more insight than I. In our conversation Saturday we were pretty split on Boons. Talking it through we each acknowledged several sides of the issue: it's good as it stands; it's badly designed but easily fixed in the future; some folks will read ahead no matter what and find a way to cheese/cheat, etc.
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People said the chronicle sheets were nothing more than sheets with your gold on it. So mid-season 3, season 4 they started adding cool boons for completing scenarios. They are very well liked. Then in season 5 we got Faction Boons and other boons. Overall they have been generally well liked.
Thanks.
This is what I was looking for.....In the opinions of regular Society players, are Seasons 0, 1 & 2 Scenarios considered not-"beneficial"-enough-for-PCs compared to Seasons 3 & 4?
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You keep bringing this topic up like it hasn't been discussed before and like your thoughts are original thoughts
Actually,
Has there been much conversation on the Boards here about . . . . Has there been any thought about....
I can assure you ...it isn't going to change despite what you say or think about GM rewards.
Well, perhaps but that's one of the important aspects of the Boards, to see what people like/don't like. If I'm in the vast minority then, of course, but I'll still ask and try to begin a dialog (afterall if Boons from the first few seasons SUCKED and enough folks talked about it so that the next few seasons Boons were WAAAAY overpowered, who knows what the future holds?
In Season Zero DMs only got half gold, half prestige and a half-ass PC because of it and, among others, I'm sure, I b&~+%ed like hell on the Boards here and by, I dunno, Season 2?, DMs got full gold and prestige.
....Anyway, thanks Chris for the insight.
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Hey Ray - I think the primary reason to strongly limit credit for playing multiple times is "fun".
Yeah, that's understandable.
For some folks, though, "fun" is achieved differently.
In my specific case, I really like the season 0 Scenario "Black Waters." I don't remember if I played through it or DMed it in Society (pretty sure I played but that was, what, 5 years ago?). Anyway, I like it enough that I've run it a few times as part of Homebrew campaigns, adjusting things from time to time as desired, but still really love it as a Society Scenario.
For me, I would have fun DMing that (and a handful of other Scenarios) several times for new Society Players -- obviously I couldn't (wouldn't want to) run it for any one Player twice, but for all new Players, "Black Waters" would be my "go-to" first or second Scenario.
Incidentally, one of the other Scenarios I really like is "Voice in the Void." As it turns out I've already DMed it and Played through it. Now, I know I'd like to run it again in the future (obviously only for folks that haven't experienced it) but, honestly, I am kinda upset that if I do I won't get to apply a Cert. to one of my PCs.
It's not the end of the world; it just sucks.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
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It isn't crap that you can only get GM credit 1 time and credit 1 time for playing. Unlimited replay has destroyed other Organized Play campaigns.
This, a thousand times this. We can't get judges at conventions for some systems, because like most, people would rather play than judge.
It also makes the entry into the game harder for new players. Tables where everyone has played the scenario are a bummer for new people. It is like they are the only one who isn't in on the joke.
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Now, I know I'd like to run it again in the future (obviously only for folks that haven't experienced it) but, honestly, I am kinda upset that if I do I won't get to apply a Cert. to one of my PCs.
GM Credit for multiple runs of a scenario has been heavily debated (and is a much more 50/50 issue).
I believe it is where veterans of older campaigns are sharing their experiences - that unlimited re-run credit can drag down a campaign. I'm not such a veteran, but I can see things being stagnant (I have some locals who offer to run the same scenarios over and over, when everyone has played them), and I can also see someone "crafting the perfect PC" through GM credit.
I think the GM Stars replay credit is a great compromise on this front - especially if it is changed to renew each year.
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We can't get judges at conventions for some systems, because like most, people would rather play than judge.
This is why I volunteer to GM a ton of slots at cons. I like playing, don't get me wrong, but it is not high on my list of PFS priorities. One person makes sure six others have a good time. It really is a simple choice.
Give back to the community so that others may benefit.
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I believe it is where veterans of older campaigns are sharing their experiences - that unlimited re-run credit can drag down a campaign. I'm not such a veteran, but I can see things being stagnant (I have some locals who offer to run the same scenarios over and over, when everyone has played them), and I can also see someone "crafting the perfect PC" through GM credit.
As a more serious question, considering that it's substantially harder to find people to run games than it is to find people to play them, are there rational arguments against letting people get credit for running a scenario more than once?
I understand not allowing infinite replay as a player, but every DM is facilitating ~4 players every time they run a game. Even if you are using those credits to "craft the perfect PC" you are:
A.) Missing out on the fun of playing that PC for each level you take in credit
B.) Running a ton of scenarios.
Even with infinite replay there'd be no real incentive to run the same handful of scenarios over and over, unless you want to build a stable of low level characters that you're probably never going to play.
And if you get a slight advantage from running a game (building a higher level character to play with without a risk of death) does that outweigh the benefit of all the games you'll have to run to get that advantage?
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Gm's are rewarded in other ways than just getting to assign credit to characters one time for running things over and over. There is star replay credits, there are bonuses to the shirt/folio/etc reroll, there is now a cool boon you get to assign to a character that gives cool benefits based on Character Level and Star Level and continues to give when you have gotten higher than 150 games.
I have several characters that started as Gm credit that I get to play frequently and I have no problems of getting credit once and playing once.
AT- Your "suggestions" seem extremely selfish. There are rewards in place, but I doubt nothing the Campaign Leadership does to help with Gm rewards will ever please you. Some people enjoy running games for others regardless of the rewards, others will only do it on the limited basis to get those rewards. Mike and John have taken great lengths to give more rewards for people who step up and Gm. This topic has been discussed over and over through these boards and Mike has stated several times that this isn't likely to change, so keep arguing it, but don't expect it to go anywhere.
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There are disadvantages to allowing a person to run more then once for credit. First that person takes up a slot which can give other players the chance to run. Second, it spurs the community to grow. You would also see, the rosters of certain players explode *looks at TOZ*
not to mention it lessens the possibility of meta-gaming. We all i am sure have seen or heard how they can ruin things, especially for new players.
It is up to the DM to ensure that the players are having fun, and if your bored after the seventh time running something. Then perhaps you should step back and let another person fill the reins and DM.
my .02 gold
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As a more serious question, considering that it's substantially harder to find people to run games than it is to find people to play them, are there rational arguments against letting people get credit for running a scenario more than once?
AT- Your "suggestions" seem extremely selfish. There are rewards in place, but I doubt nothing the Campaign Leadership does to help with Gm rewards will ever please you.
Well ... that escalated quickly.
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"Play, play, play" actually isn't in the latest version of the Pathfinder Society guide - make sure you've got version 5.1.I can't find version 5.1 anywhere on the site. The latest I can find is version 5.0 dated August 16, 2013. Is that correct?
I just downloaded it again, and on the cover is version 5.0, dated August 14th. On page 20 of the Guide:
The
GM Star Replay Credits are a once per star, lifetime benefit.
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As a more serious question, considering that it's substantially harder to find people to run games than it is to find people to play them, are there rational arguments against letting people get credit for running a scenario more than once?
It encourages GMs to run a variety of scenarios rather than the same one over and over again. This increased variety should have a corresponding increase in player interest.
Also, at least from a personal standpoint, it isn't much of a benefit to me. I have more than enough GM credit babies without it. I just have no desire to get more ACs than I am already getting. Now that may just be me. But if it isn't, why give people a benefit that few people really care about?
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"Play, play, play" actually isn't in the latest version of the Pathfinder Society guide - make sure you've got version 5.1.I can't find version 5.1 anywhere on the site. The latest I can find is version 5.0 dated August 16, 2013. Is that correct?I just downloaded it again, and on the cover is version 5.0, dated August 14th. On page 20 of the Guide:
The
GM Star Replay Credits are a once per star, lifetime benefit.
Thanks! Was worried I was using the wrong version.
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There are disadvantages to allowing a person to run more then once for credit. First that person takes up a slot which can give other players the chance to run. Second, it spurs the community to grow. You would also see, the rosters of certain players explode *looks at TOZ*
Don't look at me, I'm still trying to figure out what my -12 is going to be.
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There are disadvantages to allowing a person to run more then once for credit. First that person takes up a slot which can give other players the chance to run. Second, it spurs the community to grow. You would also see, the rosters of certain players explode *looks at TOZ*Don't look at me, I'm still trying to figure out what my -12 is going to be.
Yup, me, too. Just started my -11, though. Alchemist. Should be interesting. Also, still need to finally decide my -8. Race boon character, want it to be special, haha.
As an aside, it really kinda irked me that they released two version 5.0's of the guide. But not totally unmanageable.
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"Yes Tancred Desimire is my cousin, but the things he has done to our house... The corruption of the great might of Cheliax and the betrayal of our house's glorious history in the Service of Dispater. His behavior disgusts me. I hope one day to end his life."
Perhaps it is time to come into the light dear cousin. Meet me at Fangwood keep by the next full moon.
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"Yes Tancred Desimire is my cousin, but the things he has done to our house... The corruption of the great might of Cheliax and the betrayal of our house's glorious history in the Service of Dispater. His behavior disgusts me. I hope one day to end his life."Perhaps it is time to come into the light dear cousin. Meet me at Fangwood keep by the next full moon.
Our house has no room for tainted devil-dribble such as yourself. Gain what rest and solace you can at the Ruby Prince's teat, for we shall need all the strength we can muster to fight off the fiends of the worldwound, know that Dispater's will still runs strong in our family, and attempts to sulk your way back into Cheliax would be painful and short.
