Question on Weapon Dmg

[Kysune]

If you could wield a large bastard sword or a large earth breaker which would you prefer?

Large Earth Breaker - 3d6dmg, x3/20 Bludgeon dmg
Large Bastard Sword - 2d8dmg, x2/19-20 Slashing dmg

Not sure which would wield bigger numbers most often but I'm planning on playing a 2handed weapon user 4th lvl magus / insert full BAB class to lvl 11 for PFS.

If I decide to go Earth Breaker I plan on using Thunder and Fang feat + Shoanti Tattoo trait. Otherwise I'll most likely pick up the Bastard Sword as some race that gets a free proficiency for a Bastard Sword. I'm not sure if the 19-20 rolls crit chance of the Bastard Sword would yield higher dmg than the increased dmg of the Earth Breaker with only a crit on a 20. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

P.S. - Thunder and Fang does allow you to use a 2handed Earth Breaker as a 1handed weapon which by raw lets you use a large sized version of it 2handed only. Which is why I'm curious if it'd be a better choice than a large bastard sword.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Average Damage on Earth Breaker - 10
Average Damage on Bastard Sword - 9

Don't even worry about the dice.

What matters more, is that you have a 5% chance of landing a crit for 3x damage, or a 10% chance of landing a crit for 2x damage.

If you get Improved Critical(Breaker) or Keen Weapon Property(Sword), you could increase that range. 19-20 for the Breaker, and 17-20 for the Sword. This would bring up the chance of a critical to 10% for the Breaker, and 20% for the Sword.

You'd be better off with the Sword IMO. The more crits, the better.

[Kysune]

Let me add another aspect to the ratio. What if I went Kensai Magus with one of these two weapons and spend 1 pool point on Precise Strike for maximum dmg on weapon? Not sure how often I could keep that up but just curious if that would make the Earth Breaker a lot more appealing.

[Drogos]

I second the sword. Expanded crit range are really strong as a Magus. Unless you are thinking of going Falcata, then you go Falcata because 19-20/x3 and Keen-able are the best of both worlds.

[Artoo]

Just going to throw this out there, a Magus wouldn't be able to use Spell Combat with either of those as Spell Combat only works with light or one handed weapons.

If you don't care about Spell Combat and are just worried about Spellstrike then as the others have said the bigger critical threat range is generally better as a magus as the multiplier for the weapon doesn't apply to your spells, just the threat range.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Kysune wrote:

Let me add another aspect to the ratio. What if I went Kensai Magus with one of these two weapons and spend 1 pool point on Precise Strike for maximum dmg on weapon? Not sure how often I could keep that up but just curious if that would make the Earth Breaker a lot more appealing.

You're looking at 18 damage with the Breaker, vs 16 damage with the Sword. It's nothing to really worry about. What matters more, is critting often and multiplying all those static damages :)

Also, the Falcata owns them all! :D

[Kysune]

A person should be able to either grip or loose 1 hand as a free action, always holding the Large weapon in 1 hand but not able to use it till they put their 2nd hand back on it.

I'm thinking of just going for lvl 2 arcane spell access for Mirror Image and Blur buffs then going Fighter/Ranger/or something. The Kensai archetype offers some great benefits and the Precise Strike that automatically does max damage seems useful, I'd think that wouldn't require a free hand? I'm playing PFS so I can't depend on having a wizard all the time or getting free buff spells and Mirror Image/Blur both help shore up my defense to stay alive while laying down the law with a 2handed weapon.

[Fake Healer]

I personally like the X3 (or better yet, X4)crits. I know that in the long run the larger range of crits is better and make the damage bigger overall but I love that when I do crit it is X3 (or 4) and that usually is really sweet damage that tends to take an enemy out more times than not.
I just love hitting big numbers better than critting more often for less, DPR be damned.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Kysune wrote:

A person should be able to either grip or loose 1 hand as a free action, always holding the Large weapon in 1 hand but not able to use it till they put their 2nd hand back on it.

I'm thinking of just going for lvl 2 arcane spell access for Mirror Image and Blur buffs then going Fighter/Ranger/or something. The Kensai archetype offers some great benefits and the Precise Strike that automatically does max damage seems useful, I'd think that wouldn't require a free hand? I'm playing PFS so I can't depend on having a wizard all the time or getting free buff spells and Mirror Image/Blur both help shore up my defense to stay alive while laying down the law with a 2handed weapon.

Mirror Image is a godsend. I wish I could have it as a Monk Qinggong power :((

[Fomsie]

Well all discussion on what is or isn't RAW or RAI aside, Thunder and Fang requires a 3 feat "tax", two of which would be wasted with your concept. Not to mention the additional -2 to hit for using a large weapon.

You are better off just getting a wand of Lead Blades.

[Umbranus]

Fomsie wrote:

Well all discussion on what is or isn't RAW or RAI aside, Thunder and Fang requires a 3 feat "tax", two of which would be wasted with your concept. Not to mention the additional -2 to hit for using a large weapon.

And a dex requirement.

The bastard sword requires much less investments. And it has a better threat range. That said the bastard sword is the better weapon. If you want a more brutal weapon just take the dwarven waraxe. It's inferior but still better (when factoring in the prerequisites) than the earthbreaker.

And as the bastardsword IS a one-handed weapon (opposed to being used as a one-handed weapon it is cheaper to have it made from certain special materials.

In the end using a large weapon is seldom worth the -2 to hit and it is seen as cheesy by some players. Depends on the group. If you usually play alongside demons and half dragons this will not be a problem.

[Akerlof]

Kysune wrote:

A person should be able to either grip or loose 1 hand as a free action, always holding the Large weapon in 1 hand but not able to use it till they put their 2nd hand back on it.

Spell Combat requires you to have a free hand, it's written into the class ability. You cannot spell combat (cast a spell and get your full attack off) with a two handed weapon. Nothing says you cannot spellstrike with a two handed weapon, that is, deliver a touch spell via a two handed weapon. (Some GMs balk at it, you will experience table variation. There is no one handed requirement written into the ability, but there also isn't any clarification through the forums or FAQs that I know about to point out to a recalcitrant GM.)

Quote:

I'm thinking of just going for lvl 2 arcane spell access for Mirror Image and Blur buffs then going Fighter/Ranger/or something. The Kensai archetype offers some great benefits and the Precise Strike that automatically does max damage seems useful, I'd think that wouldn't require a free hand? I'm playing PFS so I can't depend on having a wizard all the time or getting free buff spells and Mirror Image/Blur both help shore up my defense to stay alive while laying down the law with a 2handed weapon.

Kensai isn't going to be very valuable to you compared to a regular magus.

You gain:
Free weapon Proficiency.
Free Weapon Focus.
Perfect Strike: 1 Ki point for max weapon damage (averages out to 10.5 damage for the Earth Breaker or 8 for the Bastard Sword.)
Up to 4AC from Int

You lose:
Light armor proficiency.
Spell Recall.
1 spell per level.

First of all, weapon damage is the smallest component to your damage output. If you're attacking two handed you should have 6 damage from Str, 3 damage from Power Attack and 1 from your enhancement bonus = +10 static at level 1. By level 5, your Str bonus is up to +7 (+9 with Bull's Str which you will start getting regularly), +6 Power Attack, +2 Enhancement = +15-17. You could spend an Arcane Pool point for +8 or +10.5 damage from your weapon, or you could spend it it recall a Frigid Touch for 4d6+16 damage (or a 6d6 empowered shocking Grasp if you go Wayang Spellhunter + Magical Lineage.) Also, how often can you afford to maximize weapon damage? You're only going to have 2+Int Arcane Pool points, you can't afford much Int so that will be a total of 4-5 at most, and you're looking at 3+ combats a day in a standard PFS scenario where you definitely want to enhance your weapon. That leaves you with maybe 1 or 2 uses of your AP for things like spell recall or maximizing damage.

Secondly, you won't be able to afford 18 Int, so you won't get 4AC from Int, you're realiztically looking at 2-3. That's puts you behind a chain shirt. You'll need to enchant your Haramaki with +AC instead of beneficial enchants to try to keep up, where the Chain Shirt gives you some extra AC and allows you a little more breathing room for special abilities.

You'll need Weapon Focus because you lose two BAB from 4 levels of Magus and another 2 attack for an oversized weapon, so Kensai saves you a feat. That means you're at -3 to hit instead of -4 compared to your baseline.

Dimished Spellcasting hurts, bad. Coupled with no Spell Recall, that's crippling. You're losing out on 2-4 spells a day: A regular Magus with 14 int would have 4 1st, 2 2nd, and be able to recall 1 or 2 1st level spells a day. A Kensai would be stuck with 3 first, 1 second and no recall. That's a huge difference in play, it't the difference between being able to cast spells in 2 or 3 combats a day as well as being able to memorize a couple utility spells to only being able to use spells in 1 combat, maybe if you don't take any utility.

I would go with a normal magus build for this character. There is a time and place for the Kensai archetype, but I think you're losing too many of the Magus Abilities with that archetype and getting too few benefits to make it worthwhile in this build.

[Zhayne]

More dice rolled = more predictable damage = my preference.

[Fake Healer]

Zhayne wrote:

More dice rolled = more predictable damage = my preference.

I sometimes also base the weapon on the PC's alignment....Very Lawful PC=more predictable damage and crits. Very Chaotic= less predictable damage (like a d12 or a lesser amount of dice) and less predictable crits like a X3 or X4.

[Kysune]

@Akerlof - According to the Paizo website, Magus is a 3/4 BAB class and not a 1/2 BAB class like most casters. So I wouldn't be 2 BAB behind, just 1 BAB at 4th lvl.

Since my DC's are going to be crap due to a low Int then wouldn't I want to use my Arcane pool to just maximize my weapon damage or something similar anyways? Not sure how a DC 13 Shocking Grasp is going succeed often once I get up there in levels later on.

Does using a wand bypass spell failure chance? I'm mainly going arcane caster just to get access to 2nd level spells but I guess if using wands then all I'd need is 1 level of Kensai Magus?

If wands bypass spell failure % then Diminished spell casting and spell recall are of little concern to me. I'm just wanting to reliably cast mirror image and blur on myself for battles that aren't easymode. Having a high UMD would still require me to roll every time and would cause me to "lose turns" when I fail a UMD check at the start of combat. Kensai just gives me 2 free feats that I'd need anyways. (Weapon Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword)

So to summarize - I want access to arcane spell list for wands. Kensai gives 2 free feats at lvl 1, maybe 1 lvl dip is all I need? I'm not familiar if I have to have access to lvl 2 spells to use lvl 2 wands though.

After Kensai (lvl 1 or 4, depending on the answer above), I go Fighter/Ranger/or something else full BAB and focus on dmg. I have access to feat Arcane Strike also for +1 bab if that seems worth getting. I'm ignoring Canny Defense and hopefully SFC% with wands.

Hopefully this explains it better. Besides Magus, I only know of Bards being Arcane Casters with 3/4 or higher BAB with access to mirror image and blur. I'm using my "access to arcane spells" for defensive purposes. It's definitely not the normal way of a Magus but my int won't be high so DC's are low, and I can't think of anything better than Kensai Magus that has high BAB for an Arcane Caster.

[Riuken]

Just trying to be the first to jump on this, but shocking grasp doesn't have a DC, just a touch attack with a bonus if they have metal.

[Kysune]

Anyone got suggestions for my last post? Would going Fighter or Ranger or something else be best to focus on 2handed weapons?

Also, any answers to my questions concerning SFC% with wands in armor?

[Kysune]

Still looking for advice/suggestions.

[Kysune]

So Kensai magus and some form of Fighter/Barbarian still seems best atm.

lvl 1) Kensai - EWP: Bastard Sword (Kensai), Wep Focus: Bastard Sword (Kensai)
lvl 2-11) Fighter or Barbarian

Confirmed that wands don't have spell failure chance and 1 lvl dip in magus gives me access to use wands of mirror image, blur, and lvl 1 magus arcane spells without any penalty while wearing armor.

I assume I'd go 12int for the bonus 1st lvl spell. Pump Str/Con, dex 3rd, rest into dump stats. Or I could possibly go Ranger or Paladin if there's something that would benefit a 2handed weapon user.

I'm going to wield a Large 2handed Bastard sword, using mirror image and blur frequently to reduce my chances of taking damage and allowing me to get into the middle of the fight and stay there longer. I'm mainly thinking of a character like the Pregen Barbarian Amari. I want to focus on melee and use my lvl 1 arcane spells and cantrips as flavor and minor buffs, using a few wands to increase my defense.

Magus is on par with Bard btw and not equal to wiz/sorc BAB like a poster above mentioned so I don't see this as a hinderance to my character. I'll only be taking a -1 hit on BAB but gain 2 free feats and access to arcane spells/wands for defensive purposes (not the typical magus as they usually use their spells for offense)

Any suggestions/tips? I'm not sure what I should multiclass into, from Kensai, or what would be a good choice.

ALSO, I'm curious as to what people think of a Halfling with a Medium sized Bastard Sword (which makes it a 2handed only weapon at -2 to-hit). I'd have access to feats "Improved Low Blow", "Risky Striker", and also +1 to-hit against medium sized creatures which would help mitigate the penalty of the bigger weapon size. Both feats seem like they could possibly help out a great deal with a Keen Medium sized Bastard Sword. Thoughts?

[Umbranus]

For the two feats (exotic weapon proficiency and weapon focus for bastard sword) you could go crusader cleric of Ragatiel, too.
Other spell list but you could cast your spells without chance of spell failure.
If you want arcane spells go your way.

[Kysune]

Thanks for the suggestion Umbranus. That's for the 1lvl dip but I'm still curious about which full BAB class would help the most with this type of 2handed setup. Also wondering if the Halfling idea is somewhat decent with the two feats available.