PF Society Sorcerer 1st level Spell Selection Help Wanted...


Advice

Dark Archive

As the title says. I had a good idea for an infernal bloodline sorcerer for Pathfinder Society but am hung up on what spells to choose. The character has a very high initiative(+10, to be exact) and is going to focus largely on save-or-suck type spells, primarily of the enchantment school.(but with others for when mind-effecting immunity comes up) For my 2 level 1 spells I cannot decide what to choose. I have an IDEA of what I want, but am having issues on deciding which lineup to go with. I know that I want at least 1 AOE save-or-suck to pair with my ridiculous initiative. However, I cannot decide between sleep or grease. The former is VERY powerful at low levels, but loses effectiveness quickly. So quickly in fact that if I fear I am in a PF society group full of characters of level 3 and up that it will be useless. If this is not the case then I'd like to know as I am not sure what the level ranges you are allowed to play with in PF society are.

As for grease, it has more utility than sleep and also stays useful much, much longer, but is less of a "I-win" button then sleep is at lower levels. In addition, I'll eventually be taking spell focus(Enchantment)and Greater Spell Focus(Enchantment), neither of which Grease will benefit from. However, grease is still a solid spell and is also useful when facing stuff immune to mind effecting spells which is actually a very big group of monsters. Thus, I haven't ruled it out either and if I do go with sleep it will probably just become grease anyway once I hit level 4.

As for my other spell, I am torn between three options. This time, charm person, protection from evil and Mage armor. As an Infernal Sorc I get a bonus to charm spells so no matter what Charm Person WILL be one of my 1st level spells. However, while I know I will take it, I am not sure about when. Since I am a human, I'll be getting extra spells known and thus I'm not sure if I want to take this as one of my level one spells or wait until I level to the point where I get to choose new spells known. The reason I am unsure is that I feel like I may need a defensive spell like protection from evil or mage armor more then I would charm person at level 1, and since having my AOE save-or-suck is at level 1 is more important to me then having charm person at level 1 I am once again unsure what would benefit me more at this level; the extra defense or access to charm person? Finally, if I do go the defensive route, the question becomes which defensive spell to choose? Mage armor is by far stronger then protection from evil at low levels, but it gets less impressive pretty quick while protection from evil is relevant the whole game. Likewise, if I do end up choosing sleep over grease, I'll have two spells I may want to switch out at level 4, so that also complicates things. However, I have a grand total of 7 HP and an AC of 12(Because no armor for arcane casters) so the +4 to AC will go a -long- way in the realm of keeping my character alive at low levels.

Anyway, if anybody has opinions on which of these spells would be best for a level 1 PF society infernal sorcerer I would appreciate if you shared them so I could make up my mind.

Silver Crusade

Keep in mind that sleep has a casting time of one full round - so even if you go first, by the time your spell kicks in everybody had the chance to act and potentially smack you around. It still is very powerful, though.

Yes, if you are in a group full of level 4 characters you have to play Tier 4-5, so there sleep might be useless - but if you are playing a level 1 character in that tier I expect you to run into a whole lot of other problems. I did not have this situation yet, but still. A group full of level 3 shouldn't be a problem, the average would be under 2.5 and so you would play lower tier.

What about color spray? A powerful spell and maybe even useful at higher levels. Although I admit that you have to get pretty close to the action to use it.

Dark Archive

Yeah, I considered color spray, but it puts me -far- to close to melee for my comfort. Especially if I don't pick up something like mage armor. I'm generally not a fan of extremely close-range and melee touch spells on anything that isn't a divine caster(that can hide behind their medium armor and possibly a shield) or a gish(who has better HP from multiclassing into something like fighter and possibly even access to light armor depending on what casting class they have), neither of which this character will be.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Grease stays good for a long time. Even if you don't heighten it.
It's multi-purpose.
It can get someone out of a grapple.
It can be used for area denial/battlefield control.
It's ranged.
It's a standard action.

I've used it many time in Society to decent effect.

DM: "You see <insert scary melee boss build description>"
Me: "Grease his weapon."
DM: *fails save* "She drops her weapon."
Me: "Okay so now she's surrounded by our melees, and disarmed. Does she have a backup weapon? Otherwise if she tries to pick it up she'll provoke. Or does she have improved unarmed strike? Cause she can swing her fists ya know...oh wait that provokes too."
Other player (barbarian): *mouth waters*
Other player (2h fighter): *mimics barbarian*
Other player (rogue who provoked and was one-shotted to death): "You're right I should have delayed."
DM: "..."

Even after monsters will auto-save (and that usually doesn't happen anyway) you can still use it to help your buddy who is stuck in the monster's jaws (grapple) and is trying to escape, or around the edge of a cliff before your fighter bull-rushes an enemy, on the rope the man in black is climbing while you are on the cliffs of insanity and so on.

Sleep, especially with some Society PUGs (Justice League style fighting, no coordination) is problematical with the no friend-or-foe area as well as the full round to get off...I'd rather have a shot in my locker that I'll use every fight.

That said...Color Spray is amazing at low levels. But if you don't want it to be your retrain, then don't pick it up...

Dark Archive

Yeah. Color spray also puts me -dangerously- close to melee, as I mentioned earler. So I'm not taking it. My only other concern is whether or not to take charm person or something like protection from evil or mage armor as my 2nd level 1 spell. Charm person will be obtained no matter what, but as of now I am not sure what I want more at 1st level, the single-target attack and social utility spell that my class features buff or the extra defense? I am leaning more towards the latter since I can always pick up charm person when I get new spells known, but if so what defensive spell should I choose? Mage armor looks a -lot- better for low level survival then protection from evil, but protection from evil is pretty much always useful while mage armor may become a retrain eventually. Likewise, until I get charm person, my bloodline arcana will be a bit wasted, and switching to Fey while mechanically better most likely does not fit the fluff of this character(they are to be a part of the cheliax faction and due to their backstory there is -no- compromising on the infernal bloodline.). If crossblooded didn't suck so much I'd be half-tempted to go fey/infernal crossblooded, but the drawbacks to that FAR outweigh the benefits so it's not an option.


Pick sleep, then you can retrain out of it for free before you hit level 2 (PFS rules) or at level 4 (sorcerer rules).

Dark Archive

How does PF society let you retrain a spell before level 2? If it involves prestige thats not an option because this will be my first PFS character and thus I will have a grand total of 0 prestige.

Shadow Lodge

3 best low level spells, IMO, are

grease
obscuring mist, saves you ass from archers/spell casters, and even melee if you need to get away.
enlarge person, make your big dumb fighter bigger and dumberer.

also every time you level you can choose a lower level spell to swap out, so if you can cast 4th level spells you can change out 1 level 3rd or lower spell for a better choice. dont waste your prestige on something like a 1st level spell. its better to get a wand, or save up for a raise dead.

Scarab Sages

You can retrain anything and everything before you start you first mission at level 2. You can retrain the whole wizard to be that barbarian you saw that was awesome.

Dark Archive

Thats not the case. It's only every 4 levels you can swap out a spell, not every level. It's too bad, but PF just doesn't work the same as Neverwinter Nights so I have to plan my swaps out ahead of time since I only get so many of them.

EDIT: Is the retrain free, or does it cost something such as gold, prestige etc..?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Takhisis wrote:
How does PF society let you retrain a spell before level 2? If it involves prestige thats not an option because this will be my first PFS character and thus I will have a grand total of 0 prestige.

Society has a free complete rebuild after every session when you are level 1. It's not locked in until level 2 and then you would have to use the retrain per Ultimate Campaign. You are even allowed to sell back all your equipment for full price not half.

The idea was not to penalize the new player who isn't sure what he wants to play.

Shadow Lodge

Here is the exact wording from the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play (which I suggest you read if you haven't already) about retraining:

"At the start of a Pathfinder’s career, you are allowed to adjust your character before settling in for the long haul. Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes may only be made between adventures and before playing as a character above 1st level. Any exceptions will be noted in the Pathfinder Society FAQ. You are able to keep all treasure, Prestige Points, special boons, and XP that you have earned and apply them to the character once you retrain as long as the character meets the criteria above.

After 1st level, if you own a copy of Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Campaign, you may use the retraining rules that begin on page 188 to alter your character. Such changes must be made in the presence of a Pathfinder Society GM, the GM must initial each change, and each change must be noted on an official Pathfinder Society Chronicle sheet. If the GM wishes to audit your character before the changes are made, you must present the character to the GM. If time is a limiting factor, the GM may choose not to allow retraining during that session. When utilizing these retraining rules, you must expend wealth as outlined in the Retraining section of Ultimate Campaign, as well as 1 Prestige Point per day of retraining since time between scenarios is undefined."


Takhisis wrote:

Thats not the case. It's only every 4 levels you can swap out a spell, not every level. It's too bad, but PF just doesn't work the same as Neverwinter Nights so I have to plan my swaps out ahead of time since I only get so many of them.

EDIT: Is the retrain free, or does it cost something such as gold, prestige etc..?

Sorcerers can swap a spell every two levels after level 4. This is free. (You might be thinking of fighters - they can retrain a feat every four levels)


To be clear and to add to what others have said, after every session until you play your first time at level 2 you get a rebuild. I won't call it 'retraining'. First session could be a sorcerer, second session could be barbarian, third session a gunslinger. It's not until that 4th session that anything is really locked in and until then you can also resell everything at 100% gold prices. You could then decide that you hated all of them and play a ninja! (Though you would then be locked into a ninja at that point without Ultimate Campaign retraining).

So you could play a sorcerer with the spell sleep and after your third session you rebuild to a similiar sorcerer without sleep. There is no cost to this and prefectly legal.

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