So, a friend of mine wants to play a Paladin with good Knowledges, starting at level 2.
Other than a level of Oracle, any suggestions?
Get weird. Try to get a good int for this. About 14 is good.
Paladin dabbles in Alchemy as a means to "achieve a state closer to his/her god." Mindchemist for 2 levels. Then pick up a level of Pathfinder Delver for Bardic Knowledge and some other weird stuff. Hell, take Vivisectionist too.
You can get some odd synergies with Alchemist as a Paladin. Cognatogen boosts your saves with Divine Grace but lowers your Con. Ups your Natural Armor too. 1st level Extract goodies include Standard action Enlarge Persons, Shield, and Expeditious Retreat.
I've got a huge Witcher vibe going right now.
Paladin 3/Vivisectionist Mindchemist 2/Pathfinder Delver 1
20 pointbuy Human
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16
Makes all Knowledge checks untrained as per Bardic Knowledge with a +5 without ranks. All Knowledge skills are class skills so a single point gets you a +9 in them total. 1d6 Sneak Attack. Grab Mutagen as your discovery for a damage boost in Strength.
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I would support the original ideal of an Oracle.
Oracle of Lore with, Focused Trance (Ex), would allow your friend's character to make high DC knowledge checks a couple of times a day.
For a non-class based knowledge Paladin, try out the Breath of Experience feat. Its for Dwarfs, Elves and Gnomes of above 100 years of age. It gives a +2 to all knowledge and profession checks and allow you to make them untrained.
You could take levels in Fighter with the Lore Warden archetype. That gets you 2 extra skill points per level, and all Int-based skills are class skills for you.
Depends on what is seen as good knowledges. Without a dip into another class I'd suggest the breadth of experience feat (and being a race that is allowed to take it.
With a level dip I would take a level of bard. If human take the fast learner feat and the improvisation feat. That way you get to use all knowledge skills untrained, get a bonus of +2 (in addition to int bonus) to all untrained knowledge skills to have some base knowledge and can max some few with the skillpoints you have.
What is he looking to get out of a paladin? If he wants to play a divine warrior that has decent knowledge skills he may want to look at an inquisitor. They not only get more skill points they get a bonus to identify monsters which is the most common use of knowledge skills. If he takes the improved knowledge monster lore feat the bonus scales up as he levels up.
The inquisitor has a lot in common with a paladin but has better skills and special abilities.
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If you do end up going high-int Paladin, take a look at the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat. It gives you access to a few Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells of your choosing. Invisible Paladin, anyone?
You may be better off rolling an Inquisitor in place of a paladin.
If you do end up going high-int Paladin, take a look at the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat. It gives you access to a few Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells of your choosing. Invisible Paladin, anyone?
This feat is a trap.
If you do end up going high-int Paladin, take a look at the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat. It gives you access to a few Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells of your choosing. Invisible Paladin, anyone?This feat is a trap.
Uh. How is having some nice picks off a bunch of good lists a trap?
Scavion that build is weird. Funky beautiful weird. I'm feeling the witcher vibe. Well done.
Scavion that build is weird. Funky beautiful weird. I'm feeling the witcher vibe. Well done.
Hehe. I'll write up a full statblock if you like.
EDIT: Oh he definitely needs Unsanctioned Knowledge.
Well, as others have said, really it depends on what he wants.
If he wants to be the go-to guy for monster knowledge, play an Inquisitor. Pick one of the Gods used by paladins, and play him as you would a paladin.
If he wants to be the fount of esoteric knowledge, he should pick another class (Oracle or Bard).
If he wants just a few knowledges at a really good level, play a human with good Int, use traits to make several of them Class skills (and you can usually get a trait bonus), Get more traits with the additional traits Feat, use the favoured class bonus to get extra skill points, pick focussed study (lose your bonus skill points from being Human and gain Skill Focus in one skill - guess where that's going!). Any or all of these will net you good bonuses in a few skills.
Uh. How is having some nice picks off a bunch of good lists a trap?If you do end up going high-int Paladin, take a look at the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat. It gives you access to a few Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells of your choosing. Invisible Paladin, anyone?This feat is a trap.
You blew a feat pick to get no more than you could get with a wand. If Unsanctioned Knowledge got you even a fifth level spell, it would be a different story.
You blew a feat pick to get no more than you could get with a wand. If Unsanctioned Knowledge got you even a fifth level spell, it would be a different story.Uh. How is having some nice picks off a bunch of good lists a trap?If you do end up going high-int Paladin, take a look at the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat. It gives you access to a few Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells of your choosing. Invisible Paladin, anyone?This feat is a trap.
Consumables aren't always easy to get your hands on. I like to bring important spells like Heroism myself.
Have you considered houseruling they have a few more skill points? Maybe a feat or trait or homebrew archetype to give them a little bit more with investment. Probably wouldn't end the world. 2+ skill points is pretty awful for a class that isn't based on intellect. Barely enough to tie your shoes. Avoids making a mess with multi-classing too.
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Wands you need to UMD, cost money, and aren't always available. Plus, Unsanctioned Knowledge opens up a lot of interesting paths - I made a Paladin of Shelyn whose holy symbol was "Shelyn's Paintbrush" - a wand of Silent Image he liked to use to great effect. Since I had UK, I didn't need to use up precious skill ranks on UMD, and I could be sure it would work every time. I also got some primo other spells, including Haste.
Oh, and going Inquisitor is probably a good idea if OP really wants knowledges. It's a little less Sir Lancelot and a little more Van Helsing, but you can roleplay it however you'd like.
Consumables aren't always easy to get your hands on. I like to bring important spells like Heroism myself.
While they're not always easy to get your hands on, it's easier to acquire another Wand of Heroism than it is to acquire another feat.
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't make it any less of a trap.
Best wishes!
Consumables aren't always easy to get your hands on. I like to bring important spells like Heroism myself.While they're not always easy to get your hands on, it's easier to acquire another Wand of Heroism than it is to acquire another feat.
I get what you're saying, but it doesn't make it any less of a trap.
Best wishes!
There are several advantages to having an expanded spell list over the use of wands, saying a feat is a trap because wands or other consumables exist really doesn't explain much.
The Dimensional Dervish feat chain opens up to anyone who wants to take Dimension Door as their 4th level spell choice with the feat and that is something you cannot do with a wand.
The paladin class is also pretty starved on skill points, and not having to dump them in ranks of UMD could be just as valuable as that feat slot depending on the build.
Wands also cost money that would be better spent on other resources.
We've had this argument before, master_marshmallow. I'd prefer not to have it ad infinitum.
Good day to you, sir.
The Cosmopolitan feat also adds two (INT, CHA, or WIS-based) skills to your list of class skills. Not optimal, but combined with a couple of traits to add other knowledges, you could have most of the knowledge skills available to you without dipping into another class.
By 4th level, a Sacred Servent archetype with the Knowledge domain would have all Knowledges as class skills.
Downside to putting things in class is that you still have to have the skill points to utilize them. Gives it a little oomph, but doesn't innately make you good at them or help with a lack of skill points to pump them.