So, I've just decided to restart my series in theorycrafting prestige classes. I've gotten through a lot, but I've decided to restart with the hellknight commander. I'll be posting a build in a few minutes, in the meantime, I'm open to anybody's advice.
I'm not tempted by the paladin, I've made too many lately. I'll probably go for either a cavalier, samurai. I'm just not feeling paladin right now, despite the fact it's probably best (paladin is almost always best).
Too bad, Antipaladin/Hellknight makes a really, really effective intimidator build because of his aura of cowardice+Fearsomeness.
Unless we're in an alignement-free system...
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Finally, paladin is just too easy... So here's a Suli paladin/hellknight.
Race: Suli;
Class: Paladin 5/Hellknight Commander 10/ ?
Stats 25 pts:
Str: 17 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 17
1 Power Attack
2
3 Furious Focus
4
5 Incremental Elemental Assault
Hellknight
6
7 Lightning Reflexes
8 Discipline (pentamic faith)
9
10
11 ? ; Discipline (wrack)
12
13
14 ? ; Discipline (onslaught)
15
Not sure what archetype would be best for paladin. Probably something that disposed of divine bond. Otherwise something simple, there isnt much that synergizes well in specifics. I'm thinking of a dex-build so as to best use the "hellknight armor".
@ BBT: If you have a proposal, sure, this is all theorycrafting anyways.
If so warpriest would be an awesome combo into hellknight. If I were making a hellknight that would be the class I would use.
One of my character concepts was a Hellknight that uses a tower shield and a light repeating crossbow. Problem is I couldn't find a hellknight order that had that favored weapon. I think I dug deep enough that I found one that used ranged weapons and didn't have a listed weapon and I was gonna ask my friends if the concept made sense but never got around to fleshing it out.
Otherwise, I think fighter, paladin, cavalier are the way to go. Warpriest though, fits right in.
Can a paladin even be a Hell Knight? I know that alignment wise, Hell Knights can be any lawful, but I have a hard time believing that it is not a breach of a paladin's code to be a part of an organization that exalts and attempts to emulate evil creatures.
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Can a paladin even be a Hell Knight? I know that alignment wise, Hell Knights can be any lawful, but I have a hard time believing that it is not a breach of a paladin's code to be a part of an organization that exalts and attempts to emulate evil creatures.
They were around before House Thrune and before Cheliax became infernal. The 'Hell' of Hellknight was originally because they thought it sounded cool. I do agree it is easier for a Paladin of stick-in-the-mud accountant Abadar than a sexy go-getting scion of Iomedae.
The majority are LN. Think Judge Dredd, not Nazis.
I will echo what people have said above. A Samurai Hellknight sounds like the business. His armour is likely to be very stylish indeed. Sword Saint archetype?
Lightning reflexes is not that great, I would probably go an intimidate build myself. Use a trait to get it as a class skill, and shatter defenses everywhere
an organization that exalts and attempts to emulate evil creaturesThis isn't what hellknights do
According to the Pathfinder wiki, citing the Inner Sea World Guide:
The Hellknights are a collection of knightly orders with a unique focus on the promulgation of law. They are interested less in the social goodness and charity typical of paladins, but in the foundation and stringent maintenance of order at all costs. In their iron-handed exaction of law—specifically, the laws of their various orders and their home country of Cheliax—Hellknights emulate the most organized and effective armies in all the planes: the legions of Hell. They are not concerned with morality, they are not concerned with methods, they are concerned with results. If people cannot be trusted to obey the law out of their own senses of civility and social righteousness, then they need to learn how to obey out of fear of a master's stern hand.
Bolding is mine.
How is that not emulating Devils? The entry even goes on to say they summon and train with Devils. That is definitely not kosher for a Paladin.
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Ok, plenty of GREAT ideas. Here's one for a halfling dex-build. Samurai Hellknight.
Race: halfling;
Weapon: Wakizashi! (agile of course, or mythic weapon finesse)
Stats: 25 pts
Str: 10 Dex: 18 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 14 Cha: 15
Class: Samurai (sword saint) 5/Hellknight 10/Samurai
1 Weapon Finesse
2
3 Thoughness
4
5 Pirhanna Strike
Hellknight
6
7 Weapon Focus (wakizashi)
8
9 ?
10
Not feeling as inspired as I hoped I would be. Gonna try the gun tank idea.
Well, I experimented with the hellknight guntank; makes for a decent build, with great AC, saves, attack & damage. Requires celestial hellknight plate (which is basically celestial full plate).
If anybody has requests, I'll try another prestige class in a few days.
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I will echo what people have said above. A Samurai Hellknight sounds like the business. His armour is likely to be very stylish indeed. Sword Saint archetype?
Curiously enough, I'm adding a LN Samurai-Hellknight (Order of Shield-Godclaw) as an NPC in my Jade Regent campaign.
Raised in Cheliax from a refugee Tian family, trained as a determined samurai, caught the attention of the Hellknights, got into the order, took upon himself to go and save his ancestral country (Minkai) from what he believes is unlawful heathen rulership.
He's a character that arrived several years before the main PCs, and they kept finding clues (busted Hellknight armor in a Tian-Xia armor shop for example) that some Hellknights preceded them. This particular character is the only survivor of his original party.
I'm keeping him for the last book. But clues to his whereabouts and back story will keep popping up. His final appearance depends on the actions of the PCs. He may be on the side of the PCs or the bad guys, alive and well or a undead grave knight.
I'll try. It's never seemed like an extremly good option, if only because it synergizes poorly with others. Maybe with an early entre eldritch knight.
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I'll try. It's never seemed like an extremly good option, if only because it synergizes poorly with others. Maybe with an early entre eldritch knight.
It's a really odd class. I want to like it more, for it is undeniably cool, a Wizard wearing that nasty Hellknight armour is very stylish.
Unfortunately, the abilities are dodgy. Several are tied to Cha, which isn't great for a Wizard who also needs Str (if only to heft his costume about). He gets Sense Motive, a fairly useless Wis skill for him. The mask should be amazing, the Assiduous Gaze ability is as good a class feature as you will see, but it only lasts 1/2 class level. That is a maximum of 5 rounds a day, ever (barring mythic or monster feats). The telepathy is a nice touch, but very late. The BaB and HP is, of course, welcome, but is it really needed? You are still a Wizard, you don't even lose any caster levels, though it helps rays and stuff. And Looks terrific, some black knight shooting lasers from his hands.
The down sides are very bad though. The feat tax means it may well be better to get a fighter level in first. Fighter 1 with Arcane Armor Training as the bonus combat feat deals with that. The very worst thing in the class is the swift action thing for activating the armour. There is the weird, circumstantial immediate action thing, but it never becomes free. You can never use a quickened spell or a swift action spell with this kit on.
The odd thing is it might be better to wear a Mithral Chain shirt and at Hellknight Signifier 8 there is no ASF and thus no action economy problems. frankly, I would consider getting a Mithral Breastplate and just risk the 5% when you absolutely need to use a swift action for something else. It is a shame, because there is probably a way to wear Hellknight Plate but not to wear it well. The best you can do normally is a Mithral breastplate and I guess you paint it black and put spikes on it and call it Hell Knight style. What is good is that you can enchant it, which is always useful.
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You're probably right captain K; though per se, the signifier is only required to wear his mask & not hellkngiht armor, so I dont see much of a problem.
The best option I see is Fighter 1/ Wizard (scryer) 1 (as per early entry)/Eldritch knight 8/ Hellknight Signifier 10; BAB +16, CL 18 (so it could work for an early entry aasimar sorcerer to get a level 9 spell), decent AC. I have heard of builds built entirely around non-somatic spells, so it could be doable. If cheesy.
Edit: The hellknight seems to be better for a cleric/inquisitor/oracle because of the "cathechesis" ability, which allows judgments, domains and mysteries to scale. Not too shabby.
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I've been thinking that it might not be bad to have both Warrior Priest and Arcane Armor Training. Replacing the fighter level with oracle (battle or metal), you get all of the proficiencies anyway via Skill at Arms, and then you can take Extra Revelation for revelations that will scale with your Hellknight level. It "only" costs one point of BAB, but the revelations might not scale enough to justify that. It is an option, though. It's possible with some cleric archetypes, too, but the return becomes even less (unless there are some crazy domain powers that I can't think of).