Goblin Squad Member
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Give it a rest.
I've always found it kind of intriguing that "reasonable" people tend to try to apply peer pressure to other "reasonable" people to "knock it off" in this kind of situation. The former rarely - if ever - actually stand up to the blowhard jerks that actually cause all the drama in the first place.
Just my 2 cp.
YMMV.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Give it a rest.I've always found it kind of intriguing that "reasonable" people tend to try to apply peer pressure to other "reasonable" people to "knock it off" in this kind of situation. The former rarely - if ever - actually stand up to the blowhard jerks that actually cause all the drama in the first place.
Just my 2 cp.
YMMV.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of it all. I'd like both sides to give it a rest (especially the one inciting things by being unreasonable). Anyone who is in favour of griefing in EVE? Keep it in EVE where it's allowed. Bring that mentality over to PFO and you'll get banned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Honestly, I'm getting tired of it all. I'd like both sides to give it a rest (especially the one inciting things by being unreasonable). Anyone who is in favour of griefing in EVE? Keep it in EVE where it's allowed. Bring that mentality over to PFO and you'll get banned.Give it a rest.I've always found it kind of intriguing that "reasonable" people tend to try to apply peer pressure to other "reasonable" people to "knock it off" in this kind of situation. The former rarely - if ever - actually stand up to the blowhard jerks that actually cause all the drama in the first place.
Just my 2 cp.
YMMV.
It isn't griefing in eve and there won't be jet cans in PFO, so it can't be brought here. Secondly, I never said can flipping was solely used for killing, I actually never did kill a miner with it, but simply used the aggro timer to keep him away for 15 minutes.
Can it really be griefing if no one gets killed?
I can see a parallel in PFO where using trespasser flags can be used against outsiders in your settlement hex to chase them away from their own resource node. If a settlement can specify an individual to be flagged a trespasser, would this not be very similar and therefore griefing?
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Goblin Squad Member
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He had clearly stated previously that can flipping and decimal scamming is not griefing.I think those are both griefing tactics. They're horrible. But in EVE they're not bannable offenses nor are they considered exploits so there's no out-of-game sanction for engaging in those behaviors.
There will be in Pathfinder Online.
Noone gets killed in a decimal scam. As you say, can flipping doesnt' have to result in death. They are both griefing tactics per Mr. Dancey.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was imagining suicide banking as buy high sell low market strategies.
Every year in PO, harvesting ops are razed to the ground worldwide in a reckless flurry of destruction for a month resulting in a spike in natural resource prices. Gee, I wonder if anyone has been stockpiling those same resources for months to sell at these new three-fold profit margins?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was imagining suicide banking as buy high sell low market strategies.Every year in PO, harvesting ops are razed to the ground worldwide in a reckless flurry of destruction for a month resulting in a spike in natural resource prices. Gee, I wonder if anyone has been stockpiling those same resources for months to sell at these new three-fold profit margins?
Oh yeah, that will happen, Eventually.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Noone gets killed in a decimal scam. As you say, can flipping doesnt' have to result in death. They are both griefing tactics per Mr. Dancey.He had clearly stated previously that can flipping and decimal scamming is not griefing.I think those are both griefing tactics. They're horrible. But in EVE they're not bannable offenses nor are they considered exploits so there's no out-of-game sanction for engaging in those behaviors.
There will be in Pathfinder Online.
And as I said, if they are considered griefing in PFO than they would not be used by me. Different game, different rules.... It is really that simple. Ryan can only speak to what he wants to see in his game, not what other games should do. He declared it griefing for PFO, not for Eve.
He also declared that Eve was not a murder sim, as many of you allowed yourselves to be convinced of. I don't see those same individuals retracting what they had said, but I wouldn't expect them to. They can hold a different opinion from Ryan, can't they?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was imagining suicide banking as buy high sell low market strategies.Every year in PO, harvesting ops are razed to the ground worldwide in a reckless flurry of destruction for a month resulting in a spike in natural resource prices. Gee, I wonder if anyone has been stockpiling those same resources for months to sell at these new three-fold profit margins?
This will happen on a random Tuesday and all of the participants will be wearing Green Hats.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My final take on this subject for now:
Griefing is griefing wherever it's done. It's just that some game companies don't care, and some do.
I held off on calling you a griefer for a long time. Even though I always suspected. Even when people came back to me reporting they found the phrase "At least we left you with your tears" being encouraged on the UNC forums because I didn't see it with my own eyes.
But I knew your true colors when you admitted to can flipping. To have that stance validated by our allies, then a member of Pax Nostromo, and then even CEO of Goblinworks backs up my position. It asserts that it's not me believing our enemy is a griefer because I want to, but a mainstream position held by many even some whom with we have our differences. Of the three people on these forums I consider to be my enemy. One has been called toxic by Ryan and the other two have admitted to taking part in an activity that he considers griefing. 3 for 3.
That tells me I'm on the right track. They say you can judge a man by his enemies. People can question my methods all they want but it's becoming clear I'm hitting the mark consistently.
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Goblin Squad Member
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His opinion has equal weight as everyone else's.Andius, your opinion means nothing.
Nice try, 0/10
Not if he is going to accuse someone of being a griefer when we havent even played the game. Not when he makes claims to our website when it isnt there. Not when he is going to do his own griefing here on the forums.
All I have seen the guy do since I joined this forum is spew forth venom at Bludd.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My final take on this subject for now:
Griefing is griefing wherever it's done. It's just that some game companies don't care, and some do.
I held off on calling you a griefer for a long time. Even though I always suspected. Even when people came back to me reporting they found the phrase "At least we left you with your tears" being encouraged on the UNC forums because I didn't see it with my own eyes.
Of course you didn't see it with your own eyes, it's not there, I just did a search. You either have untrustworthy spies who lie to you, or you are a liar.
So let those "people" post the quote, otherwise it is unsubstantiated slander or libel.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see a parallel in PFO where using trespasser flags can be used against outsiders in your settlement hex to chase them away from their own resource node. If a settlement can specify an individual to be flagged a trespasser, would this not be very similar and therefore griefing?
Are you saying that it is griefing to enforce the laws a settlement can toggle on? I am confused as to how that can be griefing? Their very presences in the hex makes them a potential target with or without them harvesting, or am I missing something? To be a trespasser wouldn't the person be harvesting goods the settlement has a claim to? Sorry to throw around names but didn't Steelwing say that his settlement would defend their EC as their property? I find that a tiny bit over the top but within their rights to do so.
On the point of can flipping, nobody thinks there will be an exact same thing in PfO. Its the spirit of the model, using a broken part of the system to make an otherwise illegal target that would cost an attacker rep and faction changes to be a free target without those penalties through tricky, or no action of their own.
Help me out here, from what I am read Can Flipping is akin to a Cop planting drugs on a random person, and then arresting them? Is that correct? Who would consider that fair play? The can flipping is just a guy picking up his own mining cans?
In the TEARS case at least the person was attempting illegal salvage they were taking a chance that looked like it was worth the risk only to get attacked. Again do I have this correct?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Help me out here, from what I am read Can Flipping is akin to a Cop planting drugs on a random person, and then arresting them? Is that correct? Who would consider that fair play? The can flipping is just a guy picking up his own mining cans?In the TEARS case at least the person was attempting illegal salvage they were taking a chance that looked like it was worth the risk only to get attacked. Again do I have this correct?
In the case of can flipping, you would be warned that you are stealing from someone else... Even if it was a can you jettisoned, they changed the owner, and now you are trying to take from it.
You would not get that warning if you checked the box saying you did not want to receive that message again.
Yes in the Tears case.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Help me out here, from what I am read Can Flipping is akin to a Cop planting drugs on a random person, and then arresting them? Is that correct? Who would consider that fair play? The can flipping is just a guy picking up his own mining cans?
It's an undercover cop planting drugs in someone's bag when they aren't looking, then waiting for the victim to pick up their bag. The moment they pick up the bag, the cop says "Thief! That doesn't belong to you!" if the person ignores that warning because it's THEIR BAG, the cop shoots them in the head.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My own opinions...
- EvE most definately has a toxic reputation in wider gaming circles. So does Darkfall, Mortal Online and most FFA PvP games.
- EvE's toxic reputation has nothing to do with it's complexity. My freinds and I who have no desire to play EvE have plenty of experience playing games like Advanced Squad Leader...complexity isn't a problem.
- Most FPS games don't really have the same toxic reputation as EvE because....
A) They are generaly Team/Faction based so from the second you login you have a built in support team on your side working toward the same goal.
B) The skills to achieve are based entirely on the players abilities not the characters. Anyone can pretty much kill any other player. Skill simply determines how often that occurs.
C) Combat is intentionaly ALL the game is about. There really is nothing outside of that to playing the game. FPS combat is generaly pretty interesting and engaging too.
D) There really is no individual consequence to death, so you don't mind or lose much from it happening.
E) Players that abusive in other ways (e.g. harrasing voice chat) can simply be muted or sever kicked.
F) When all else fails you simply can abandon your 20 minute long match and goto another server with other players to avoid those you don't like. You don't lose anything by doing so.
G) Most of them have the option for private, password protected, invite only servers where you can always be assured of who you are playing with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And as I said, if they are considered griefing in PFO than they would not be used by me. Different game, different rules...I think it's the fact that you couldn't tell by yourself that it was griefing that has folks concerned.
By my definition of griefing, it has to have several components:
1. It must be frequent and directed at the same individual
2. It must have no real purpose other than causing grief, "just for the Lolz"
3. It must result in the death of the toon / ship or violate Eula chat conventions in the areas of making racial, ethnic, etc etc....
The way that I had used can flipping, was to intimidate the miner to leave the area for 15 minutes as they wait out the aggro timer. 15 minutes was long enough to get our own haulers in and snatch as much of their can(s) as possible.
If they returned with force, we either engaged long enough to give our haulers enough time to warp out. Most of the time they would not return in force and would just forget their cans.
As I have said, repeatedly, this was largely made obsolete by larger ore capacity ships. You almost never see anyone jet canning, I might have found 5 in the last year or so. I used my ore thief toon Rutgar Gist, you can look him up. You won't see any, not one..... Mining barge kills, actually no PvP kills and only one loss.
So do I see can flipping as griefing, nope! Not unless it is used specifically for killing, which I never have done. I used the aggro to intimidate or, dare I say... "Exile" the miner from the area.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In case you weren't simply upholstering your sentiment with dry humor, I think his 'b' is a 'g'.I am officially intriguedThere also won't be suicide banking
You have to love auto-correct, but I let the "B" stand because it could lead to that intriguing discussion.
I will also tie it into the the OP discussion as well, because at 3:00 AM, that is when "Suicide Banking" would occur.
I have little doubt that the settlement manager(s) will bear no responsibility for banking scams, and the thief will be called a "griefer" by Andius and crew. For the record, I have never done this in EVE, but I know people who have.
Settlement Banks will likely have permission settings, allowing anyone on the permission list to deposit or withdraw items or cash from the bank.
We ALL KNOW that it will only be a matter of time before a deeply implanted thief will rob the settlement bank clean and then transfer everything to an alt, and then wipe the thief.
In some cases this actually turns out to be a settlement manager him/herself and then when the collective bank account of the settlement / corporation reached a few billion... Poof! Everything and that manager disappear at 3:00 AM.
Thoughts....
Perhaps a way to combat that is to only allow a certain max amount to be withdrawn daily by one person or for the entire settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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By my definition of griefing...And as I said, if they are considered griefing in PFO than they would not be used by me. Different game, different rules...I think it's the fact that you couldn't tell by yourself that it was griefing that has folks concerned.
I'm not really interested in your definition. I'm more interested in whether you'll have to be directly told "that was wrong" by a person in a position of authority each and every time you break PFO's Golden Rule, or whether you'll internalize the spirit of the rule itself and be able to see for yourself when you're about to be a jerk.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I used the aggro to intimidate or, dare I say... "Exile" the miner from the area.
Were you doing that in space where you had paid the price in ISK and blood to establish and hold your sovereignty I might even respect that. Not the tactic but the idea of protecting what is yours. However, given you can't hold sovereignty in high sec I know that wasn't the case. There is a reason why some territory is claimable, and some is not. Trying to control what is not meant to be claimed is very different than enforcing your rule on what you have already claimed. Especially when the reason it can't be claimed is that it's meant to be a safe place for newbs and those not desiring constant PvP shoved down their throats.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Andius and Nihimon - Im sure you guys know all this and I know that I dont need to tell you.
A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.
In Eve, can flipping and scamming are working as intended... Therefore not griefing
Written or verbal insults, including false accusations of cheating or griefing.
So by definition and the methods used to grief... Both of you are Griefers.
You both have accused me and Bludd as being griefers. We havent done a single thing yet in PFO to constitute griefing. We havent done a single thing in other games that is considered griefing. Yet both of you have made false accusations of us being griefers.
Thank you for showing your true colors.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We havent done a single thing yet in PFO to constitute griefing. We havent done a single thing in other games that is considered griefing. Yet both of you have made false accusations of us being griefers.
He had clearly stated previously that can flipping and decimal scamming is not griefing.I think those are both griefing tactics. They're horrible. But in EVE they're not bannable offenses nor are they considered exploits so there's no out-of-game sanction for engaging in those behaviors.
There will be in Pathfinder Online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We havent done a single thing yet in PFO to constitute griefing. We havent done a single thing in other games that is considered griefing. Yet both of you have made false accusations of us being griefers.He had clearly stated previously that can flipping and decimal scamming is not griefing.I think those are both griefing tactics. They're horrible. But in EVE they're not bannable offenses nor are they considered exploits so there's no out-of-game sanction for engaging in those behaviors.
There will be in Pathfinder Online.
So are you saying that we have done this in PFO? Im sure your not since the game isnt even playable to us.
It is playing as intended in Eve.
Nice Try, 1/10
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Goblin Squad Member
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We havent done a single thing yet in PFO to constitute griefing. We havent done a single thing in other games that is considered griefing. Yet both of you have made false accusations of us being griefers.He had clearly stated previously that can flipping and decimal scamming is not griefing.I think those are both griefing tactics. They're horrible. But in EVE they're not bannable offenses nor are they considered exploits so there's no out-of-game sanction for engaging in those behaviors.
There will be in Pathfinder Online.
So are you saying that we have done this in PFO? Im sure your not since the game isnt even playable to us.
It is playing as intended in Eve.
Nice Try, 1/10
EVE allows griefing, therefore it is playing as intended. As long as those styles of play stay in EVE and do not continue into PFO, I couldn't care less. But to insist that griefing isn't happening just because a game allows or promotes griefing is silly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.
So in order for you in Bluddwolf to be griefers you must meet all of those conditions, which I would argue you do, and apparently be backed up by Xaer and Ryan among others TEO and TSV members not being counted.
Written or verbal insults, including false accusations of cheating or griefing.
But in order for us to be griefers we only have to fit one part of of this definition according to you, and only you. Or maybe Bludd and Steelwing will back you up.
Is that about it?
I don't fight with UNC for my own sick amusement. I do it because you came on these forums started attacking me in everything I did (I did not draw first blood with Bluddwolf if you will stop to remember) and have in general been a blight on this community from day one. Despite all that I didn't level the accusation of griefer until you admitted to an action that both Pax and Goblinworks members have now condemned you for.
I would really rather not fight at all, but sometimes there is no wise course of action:
Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest you be like him yourself.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own eyes.
Battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster; and if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes into you.
In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing.
I can't simply ignore you because you invite me to fight. Not just invite, intentionally provoke me until I do. I cannot even create a topic without you coming into it and spewing ignorance, venom, and toxicity. Much of what you say is so far from reality it simply cannot be left unchallenged. What would you have me do?
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Goblin Squad Member
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For clarity only:
The only thing Pax has said officially on this matter is that we adhere to the rules in a EULA or developer mandates. This is not an opinion of one person or a majority. It is written in our charter:. Here are the relevant articles:
6.5 RULES OF ENGAGEMENT (ROE): Players have a right to be free from griefing. While most online games are about war, the Pax Gaming Community is against the griefing of other players. In addition to the harassment and verbal abuse rules, Pax members will conduct themselves with the utmost honor in all aspects of the game related to PVP combat. This includes the ban on the initiation of combat on zoning or link-dead opponents as shown in the practice of corpse camping, graveyard camping, or the like. PVP combat between different levels (i.e. higher level player attacking a lower level player) or different numbers (i.e. 10 players attacking 3 players) is considered standard PVP tactics that regularly occur within the rules of fair-play. Pax will not ally or go to war with any guild who does not agree to our rules of engagement. As a no-drama guild our policy is to avoid griefing players (or get back at them with superior numbers and firepower), than to complain and engage with them in any argument about fair-play. Therefore, in certain situations turn-about is fair play when that is the predominant tactic being used by the opposition, but generally such activities are not the rule.
6.11 END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT: Most gaming companies have a clear end user license agreement (EULA) that every player signs when they begin playing a game. Pax vows not to use known bugs, exploits (as compared to game features), botting (as compared to creative macroing) or any other manner of cheating to our benefit. Any member who employs exploits as a part of their gaming strategy and is unwilling to follow the terms of a EULA will be expelled from the Community and their activities will be reported to the proper gaming company.
Crossing the line into what we consider griefing (as defined) would lead to our members being disciplined or banned. Breaking 6.11 would lead to the member being removed from Pax Gaming and reported to the developers as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Charlie. I was not meaning to comment on Pax's official stance. The reason I point out Xaer is that no Pax member has any reason to blindly back me or agree with me. Your members are at best, a neutral party to this debate.
I did not necessarily think you were implying a Pax wide stance, but for the casual reader I wanted to make sure the difference between poster opinions and our official stance were somewhat separated. Especially since an aspect of this stance is written in a charter our members agree to before joining.
That said I have disagreed and I have agreed with some of your points over the time we have been posting. I think a lot of our organizations have varied our support or non support similarly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For clarity only:
The only thing Pax has said officially on this matter is that we adhere to the rules in a EULA or developer mandates. This is not an opinion of one person or a majority. It is written in our charter:. Here are the relevant articles:
6.5 RULES OF ENGAGEMENT (ROE): Players have a right to be free from griefing. While most online games are about war, the Pax Gaming Community is against the griefing of other players. In addition to the harassment and verbal abuse rules, Pax members will conduct themselves with the utmost honor in all aspects of the game related to PVP combat. This includes the ban on the initiation of combat on zoning or link-dead opponents as shown in the practice of corpse camping, graveyard camping, or the like. PVP combat between different levels (i.e. higher level player attacking a lower level player) or different numbers (i.e. 10 players attacking 3 players) is considered standard PVP tactics that regularly occur within the rules of fair-play. Pax will not ally or go to war with any guild who does not agree to our rules of engagement. As a no-drama guild our policy is to avoid griefing players (or get back at them with superior numbers and firepower), than to complain and engage with them in any argument about fair-play. Therefore, in certain situations turn-about is fair play when that is the predominant tactic being used by the opposition, but generally such activities are not the rule.
6.11 END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT: Most gaming companies have a clear end user license agreement (EULA) that every player signs when they begin playing a game. Pax vows not to use known bugs, exploits (as compared to game features), botting (as compared to creative macroing) or any other manner of cheating to our benefit. Any member who employs exploits as a part of their gaming strategy and is unwilling to follow the terms of a EULA will be expelled from the Community and their activities will be reported to the proper gaming company.
Crossing the line into what...
So does Pax judge all other players by the standard you set for yourselves? I mean if you agree to not do these things and call them griefing if you did it , do you officially consider non-members who do those things to be griefers? So you would all be agreeing on who is a griefer in the game by your rules.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So does Pax judge all other players by the standard you set for yourselves? I mean if you agree to not do these things and call them griefing if you did it , do you officially consider non-members who do those things to be griefers? So you would all be agreeing on who is a griefer in the game by your rules.
Yes, we both define and hold to that definition. This is explained a little in this excerpt from 6.5:
Pax will not ally or go to war with any guild who does not agree to our rules of engagement
We also as an official community wide stance don't argue over semantics when it comes to griefing:
As a no-drama guild our policy is to avoid griefing players (or get back at them with superior numbers and firepower), than to complain and engage with them in any argument about fair-play
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Goblin Squad Member
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So does Pax judge all other players by the standard you set for yourselves? I mean if you agree to not do these things and call them griefing if you did it , do you officially consider non-members who do those things to be griefers? So you would all be agreeing on who is a griefer in the game by your rules.Yes, we both define and hold to that definition. This is explained a little in this excerpt from 6.5:
Pax will not ally or go to war with any guild who does not agree to our rules of engagement
We also as an official community wide stance don't argue over semantics when it comes to griefing:
As a no-drama guild our policy is to avoid griefing players (or get back at them with superior numbers and firepower), than to complain and engage with them in any argument about fair-play
So if a Pax member is being griefed then all members would help then out if they need help, what about non-members that you see being griefed does PAX help them or 'maybe' help them or its none of your affair?
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Goblin Squad Member
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So if a Pax member is being griefed then all members would help then out if they need help, what about non-members that you see being griefed does PAX help them or 'maybe' help them or its none of your affair?So does Pax judge all other players by the standard you set for yourselves? I mean if you agree to not do these things and call them griefing if you did it , do you officially consider non-members who do those things to be griefers? So you would all be agreeing on who is a griefer in the game by your rules.Yes, we both define and hold to that definition. This is explained a little in this excerpt from 6.5:
Pax will not ally or go to war with any guild who does not agree to our rules of engagement
We also as an official community wide stance don't argue over semantics when it comes to griefing:
As a no-drama guild our policy is to avoid griefing players (or get back at them with superior numbers and firepower), than to complain and engage with them in any argument about fair-play
Yes:
No:Maybe: X
We have no charter mandate for such a situation. Our Pax Gaming Charter however is not a PFO division document, it spreads across all the games we play.
Our PFO divisions have not thus far discussed an official position on combating griefing generally.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I used the aggro to intimidate or, dare I say... "Exile" the miner from the area.Were you doing that in space where you had paid the price in ISK and blood to establish and hold your sovereignty I might even respect that. Not the tactic but the idea of protecting what is yours. However, given you can't hold sovereignty in high sec I know that wasn't the case. There is a reason why some territory is claimable, and some is not. Trying to control what is not meant to be claimed is very different than enforcing your rule on what you have already claimed. Especially when the reason it can't be claimed is that it's meant to be a safe place for newbs and those not desiring constant PvP shoved down their throats.
Please show me a CCP Dev Blog or Comment that High Sec is:
1. A safe place for newbs
2. That High Sec is only populated by Newbs
3. PvP is reserved only for veterans
4. Newbs can't Ninja Loot, Can Flip or Otherwise can't engage in permissible PvP, nefarious activities, etc...
A CCP Developer, not a former marketing Officer, no offense Ryan, but I doubt you were the go to guy for determining what was permissible or not in EvE. You certainly don't decide what is or is not griefing in EvE today.
Ryan, can declare for PFO what is permissible or not for PFO. If he or some other GW authority says, "That is a behavior we'd rather not see", then they would not see it from me.... Period!
In PFO you will not see me flipping cans. I would expect that similar assurances will be made by others trying to trick players into PvP flagging or by suddenly tagging characters as trespassers or Exiled, without proper notification of a reason and change of status.
If we are going to categorize one form or entrapment as griefing, than similar acts are griefing as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Give it a rest.I've always found it kind of intriguing that "reasonable" people tend to try to apply peer pressure to other "reasonable" people to "knock it off" in this kind of situation. The former rarely - if ever - actually stand up to the blowhard jerks that actually cause all the drama in the first place.
Just my 2 cp.
YMMV.
My comment was actually aimed at everyone throwing crap back and forth at each other in this thread. It really is a pointless exercise for them, as the game is not even playable as yet, and from memory all the participants have stated several times they plan to honor the rules of the game and not participate in 'griefing'. Come EE or OE, if things change, I'll most likely be one of the posters throwing crap around also - but seriously, we're all getting worked up over nothing at this stage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius,
Are we to assume that Xaer is your source for our supposed forum post on the UNC forums stating "At least we left them their tears"?
I don't see any comment in this thread by Xaer, and yet you threw his name out there, apparently out of the blue. Seems odd and suspicious to me, or perhaps unfortunate the he would be dragged into something he had no knowledge of.
Desperately trying to drive a wedge between Pax and UNC? We are currently not in contract, and no such contract with any company or settlement is contemplated by the UNC until settlement conflict enters the game, late in EE or in OE.
As for the two Pax Charter Clauses, none of our actions are in violation of those in any game. PFO is not out yet, in case you didn't notice. I was not a member of Pax, when I played EvE, and my actions in EvE were not considered griefing or violations of CCP's EULA.
When I was an officer in Pax's STO division, I conducted myself within all of their codes of conducted and dedicated countless resources and weeks worth of hours helping them rebuild a Star Base, when their's was stolen from them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius,
Are we to assume that Xaer is your source for our supposed forum post on the UNC forums stating "At least we left them their tears"?
No that was someone who does not post on these boards.
Edit: Just had a talk with him. Guess it wasn't the UNC boards. You posted it right here.
"We may take their loot, but we leave them their tears, out of generosity of course"
Who's the liar now?
I don't see any comment in this thread by Xaer, and yet you threw his name out there, apparently out of the blue. Seems odd and suspicious to me, or perhaps unfortunate the he would be dragged into something he had no knowledge of.
Desperately trying to drive a wedge between Pax and UNC? We are currently not in contract, and no such contract with any company or settlement is contemplated by the UNC until settlement conflict enters the game, late in EE or in OE.
You have such a short memory. Not sure how I could say anything that would drive the wedge in further than that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius,
Are we to assume that Xaer is your source for our supposed forum post on the UNC forums stating "At least we left them their tears"?
No that was someone who does not post on these boards.
I don't see any comment in this thread by Xaer, and yet you threw his name out there, apparently out of the blue. Seems odd and suspicious to me, or perhaps unfortunate the he would be dragged into something he had no knowledge of.
Desperately trying to drive a wedge between Pax and UNC? We are currently not in contract, and no such contract with any company or settlement is contemplated by the UNC until settlement conflict enters the game, late in EE or in OE.
You have such a short memory. Not sure how I could say anything that would drive the wedge in further than that.
I have had no dealings with Xaer, and fewer with his company, his comment that you linked was disjointed from the conversation that was taking place. He never actually said what had upset him.
As for you source, that does not post here, that is of course oh so convenient. It also adds no credibility to your accusation. Obviously a lie, for the independent readers, until you produce it from UNC forums. That is an impossibility because it is not there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Obviously a lie, for the independent readers, until you produce it from UNC forums. That is an impossibility because it is not there.
Screenshoting, quoting, and reposting the evidence for the sake of hilarity.
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Just had a talk with him. Guess it wasn't the UNC boards. You posted it right here.
"We may take their loot, but we leave them their tears, out of generosity of course"
Who's the liar now?
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You might want to just hang up your gloves. Been a rough 24 hours for ya lil' buddy. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Obviously a lie, for the independent readers, until you produce it from UNC forums. That is an impossibility because it is not there.Screenshoting, quoting, and reposting the evidence for the sake of hilarity.
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Just had a talk with him. Guess it wasn't the UNC boards. You posted it right here.
"We may take their loot, but we leave them their tears, out of generosity of course"
Who's the liar now?
The hilarity is you have to have an obvious tongue-in-cheek joke explained to you. You still lied or your source is an idiot and didn't know what boards he was looking at.
Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.
The same way you said you would PvP people for comments made here on these boards?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.
And it was obviously a joke. If I really wanted to grief people, would I put it in our recruitment thread? Seriously, think a bit will you. Now if you did find it buried deep within our UNC forums, than you'd have something there.
But, you already had Obacky looking in on our forums, two problems with that effort. One, everything we had on our forums was said in public. Second, he was such a terrible spy he revealed himself to my most trusted friends going back long before PFO was even on anyone's radar.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.The same way you said you would PvP people for comments made here on these boards?
Honesty means nothing to UNC does it? How many times do I have to debunk the same lie?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.The same way you said you would PvP people for comments made here on these boards?
The same way he downgraded TEOs association with T7V when I guess he felt they did not suck up to him enough during the Treaty of Rovagug debacle.
The same way he drove off so many of his members and many are with Pax now.
TEO was smart to replace him with Lifedragn, but that was no surprise, it was months in the making.
Shall I continue? I have more.... A lot more. I've been getting PMs for over a year, some even from Andius.
Honesty means nothing to UNC does it? How many times do I have to debunk the same lie?Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.The same way you said you would PvP people for comments made here on these boards?
Does it really matter where it came from? Mistakes happen. The important part is that you said it.