In my group we have a summoner synthesist. There are some rules that are unclear to me how he plays his character.
1- If he is in this eidolon form, does it stay as long as it has hit points?
2- At anytime, can he unsummon his eidolon and what type of action is it?
3- His level 4 eidolon has bite, claws, limb arm left and right and legs left and right. Is this correct?
4- How many attacks does he get in 1 round, meaning how many d20's does he get to roll and if there is more than one, does he get penalties to his attack rolls or does he get the same bonus for all his attacks, hoping that he has all these attacks?
EDIT:
I asked him to leave his sheet so i can read it and understand it because some players said he was playing it wrong. To add to my other questions:
5- When i look at the summoner class rules and compare them to the archetype synthesist class. I believe that some rules are replaced such as level 1,4,6,12 and 16.
On the standard summoner from the advance player guide, the eidolon has: darkvision, evasion at lvl 2, and there are other abilities it gets at level 8,10 and 14 which are not on the archetype synthesist. Can i get help to clear this up because he says he gets all of that and another player says no.
Regards
1 yes, but only if awake
2 standard action to dismiss
3 think so
4 all primary attacks are done at max bab
There are limits to the number of attacks he can do a round in the eidolon table. Beside that yeah if the eidolon runs out of hp/dies, it wont be available for a day/24 hours if I recall correctly.
As to question 5, you gain the eidolon's special abilities. This includes the darkvision, +4 vs enchantments, etc as you gain levels.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Some of these questions require more information, such as what type of eidlon form (biped, quadruped, serpent) he took.
The number of attacks he can make during a full attack action are limited in two ways: First, how many attack options the form has (bite, claws, tail whip, extra arms, etc). Second is the chart for eidolon advancement which includes the maximum number of attacks available based on character level.
A level 4 eidolon (which is to say, the eidolon of a level 4 character) can have NO MORE THAN four attacks a round with a full attack action. Now, that requires him to have that many attack options. A biped eidolon's default set is 2 claws.
The summoner has to spend evolution points to get additional attacks, such as bite, tail slap, horns, etc. Once he has hit a number of attack options equal to the maximum allowed for the level, he cannot buy any more attack options. So if he has horns, a bite, and two sets of claws, he cannot buy a tail slap and just not use it.
There are also evolutions that upgrade/replace existing attack options, and that is allowed.
Note, this is also independent of any weapon attacks. So if the biped has two arms with claws, a bite, and horns, it can still wield a sword and make attacks with that. He loses one of the claws, obviously (since the hand is holding the sword), but the other claw, bite, and horn are all allowed in the full attack as secondary attacks (-5 to hit, half strength) if I remember correctly.
Amazonnia wrote: I asked him to leave his sheet so i can read it and understand it because some players said he was playing it wrong. To add to my other questions: If I may hazard a guess, the reason the players are bringing it up is because he's probably outclassing them all on the field. The Synth Summoner is an extremely powerful archetype. It is imperative that audit the character for any mistakes "accidental", or otherwise.
I would strongly suggest that you try recreating his character by building one yourself along the same lines. The practise will be good for you.
Fused Eidolon
A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components. The eidolon’s temporary hit points can be restored with the rejuvenate eidolon spell.
So yes he actually does get eidolon's special abilities including darkvision and evasion. Keep in mind however that there a few achillies heels built into this eidolon.
Unlike normal eidolons, the synth suit HAS NO REAL HIT POINTS. It has temporary hit points and the only way to restore them is the rejuvenate eidolon spells. Cure spells, fast healing, rings of regeneration, etc... do not work on temporary hit points.
When fused, the eidolon IS subject to banishment effects. And the synth suit does go away when it's time for sleep. And it takes the full minute ritual to bring it back.
With that in mind, it remains a very powerful archetype. If you were to ban it from your campaign, you would be far from the first DM to do so.
Let me type in the stats and can anyone tell me if his numbers are good.
Summoner lvl 4
Str 9
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 20
I let him use the aging rule to add bonus
Fort = 3
Con = 3
Wis = 8
AC = 12
----------------
His eidolon lvl 4 (biped)
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 11
Fort = 1
Con = 1
Wis = 4
AC = 15 because of evolution point
He said the way he understands it, the saves fuses with eidolon.. Is this true?
If he is in eidolon shape, what should be his stats, that is without feats ect.
How exactly did he put in the aging effects? What were his final stats after the aging was applied before the eidolon is put into play?
He does not get access to the Eidolon's saving throws. He does get the Eidolon's physical scores which can affect his Fortitude and Reflex Saves.
Your player is using aging effects, a classic ploy of a min-max munchkin, and it's also very clear that the player is much more read up on the class mechanics than you are. No offense intended, just stating my impressions. I strongly discourage GM's against allowing players access to mechanics that they themselves have not mastered yet.
I will repeat myself, Build your own Synthesist Summoners and try a few configurations. If you're not going to take the time master the class mechanics, allowing it in your games is going to give you nothing but grief, especially since you seem to have a player who's more than willing to take advantage of the gaps in your knowledge.
Wow ok, because he has on his sheet:
Fort: 4
Ref: 4
Will: 9
He attacked with a bite and 2 claws at +3 which i find its not bad because most have +6 to their attack but its only 1 attack compared to his 3
I wish there was a character builder so i can add the stats and it calculates by it self. We had a session last evening and i trust the player but now i am having doubts. 2 players complained that his stats don't seem to add up and i saw a concern as they seem less interested towards the end. I rather correct this before i lose 2 good players
Amazonnia wrote: Wow ok, because he has on his sheet:
Fort: 4
Ref: 4
Will: 9
He attacked with a bite and 2 claws at +3 which i find its not bad because most have +6 to their attack but its only 1 attack compared to his 3
I wish there was a character builder so i can add the stats and it calculates by it self. We had a session last evening and i trust the player but now i am having doubts. 2 players complained that his stats don't seem to add up and i saw a concern as they seem less interested towards the end. I rather correct this before i lose 2 good players
Herolab will do it, and if your budget is limited to free, I think PCGen should have you covered as well.
The rule of thumb is this paragraph from the archetype: "A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature."
When fused, he uses the eidolon's physical stats and his own mental stats. So his stat block should look like this:
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 13
------
Int 16
Wis 18
Cha 20
Saves are based off the summoner, not the eidolon (because the archetype doesn't list saves as something the fused version takes from the eidolon, the doesn't get them) plus the new stat block.
Fort: 1 (class) + 1 (stat) = 2
Ref: 1 (class) + 1 (stat) = 2
Will: 4 (class) + 4 (stat) = 8
AC: 10 (base) + 2 (level 4 archetype shield bonus) + 2 (base natural armor) + 2 (armor bonus for a level 4 eidolon) + 2 (improved natural armor evolution = 18.
Attack to-hit: 3 (level 4 eidolon base) + 3 (strength) = +6
Damage: 1d6+3 bite, 1d4+3 claws.
Now, he can only make one natural attack as a standard action, so if he moves then he can only bite. Full attack lets him do bite/claw/claw.
That level 4 class feature that grants shield bonus to AC also gives him a bonus to saves, does it not?
Edited for clarity
Is he able to summon the eidolon 7 times or is that for summoning monsters.
Monsters. It's 3+cha mod. But, iirc, he can't do this with the eidolon out.
So if his eidolon dies, when can he get it back?
At this point I'd advise just reading the archetype and class entry. They're both in the prd on the left.
Hi, sorry, I didn't want to make another synthesist thread: a synthesist with a weapon and natural attacks takes -5 to hit and +1/2 strength to damage on the natural attacks in a full attack action. Can it choose to just use the natural attacks, or does it have to use all available attacks in a full attack? Thanks, sorry if silly question.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Of course it can choose to just use natural attacks. If it does so, it does not take any penalties to them as it would with a manufactured weapon.
Ravingdork wrote: Of course it can choose to just use natural attacks. If it does so, it does not take any penalties to them as it would with a manufactured weapon. Perfect, thank you. Again, sorry for silly question.
I second the suggestion for PCGen, and it's free :)
Sorry, one more question: The synthesist has Con 16, the eidolon Con 13. When summoned, does the synthesist's hit points drop by 2 per level (with the eidolon's temporary hit points on top)? If yes, when the eidolon is dismissed/dispelled/banished, does the summoner instantly regain the hp lost, or do they need to be healed? Thanks again.
Ravingdork wrote: Of course it can choose to just use natural attacks. If it does so, it does not take any penalties to them as it would with a manufactured weapon. I'd like to remind downlobot that should the Synthesist use the natural attacks of the eidolon as part of a Full Attack action, he would suffer a -5 penalty to each attack.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nifty Butterfinger wrote: Ravingdork wrote: Of course it can choose to just use natural attacks. If it does so, it does not take any penalties to them as it would with a manufactured weapon. I'd like to remind downlobot that should the Synthesist use the natural attacks of the eidolon as part of a Full Attack action, he would suffer a -5 penalty to each attack. Unless they are secondary attacks, this isn't true. Or did you mean while using a manufactured weapon (which makes all remaining natural attacks secondary)?
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