Funny the GM allows those rarer races but not some archetypes. Anyway, I saw a switch hitter played roughly a year ago & it still worked out just fine. So far as I can tell it's a solid build that will probably never be bad. That said, I personally don't think it's that great since it tends to be overdone. No offense meant. Past that it isn't the shiniest build, but you can sleep at night knowing you do your job every time.
Race-wise, something to boost strength would be recommended. But since you're not feeling those, I'd suggest the next best (and obvious) choices. Dexterity Wisdom & Constitution giving races that preferably don't penalize any of the four stats the build can use most.
On the other hand you could go for utility. For that I suggest Catfolk. You could gain scent, which would synergize nicely with tracking. You'd have two ways to track, essentially. On top of knowing if anything's within 30 feet. The favored class could also make your bow crits something to be feared. Last, a climb speed for getting up & sniping things that can't climb. & an emergency escape. The big hit is -2 Wisdom, of course. But due to the bonuses from Natural Hunter & the fact that you don't need more than 14 total to cast your final spells, it should work out.
Past that cool useful utility races... things with useful SLAs, or darkvision. Maybe Aasimar like you considered, for buffing an animal companion with Celestial Servant to get it a template.
Human, bonus feats are irreplaceable unless you get something truly remarkable. It puts you roughly 2 levels ahead of your non-human counterparts in the feat train to beatdown town.
Switch hitters end up getting pulled in one direction or the other. And let's be honest, archery is usually better. Having a Greatsword backup melee weapon is great, having a good Str is awesome, even for archers, but if you start sinking feats into melee, stick to that...or if you start sinking feats into archery, stick to that.
Otherwise you'll be spread thin, and generally fall behind.
The Garuda Blooded Aasimar is pretty well designed for rangers. +2 DEX/WIS and a racial bonus on acrobatics which is a pretty useful skill to a melee fighter with light armor.
Oddly there is another thread going on about this option here, but I would say it is most beneficial to give up your see invisibility SLA and get yourself an extra +2 into STR (option 9 on the d% chart in Blood of Angels). The race trait Toxophilite is available to them which is a rare +2 trait bonus on attack rolls to confirm crits with bows.
If archetypes are available, I like Urban Ranger for Trapfinding, if not, it isn't a huge loss.
What is the point buy? I'm guessing it starts at lvl 1?
A switch hitter is fine, and you really don't need or want anything beyond core to make it work.
Pick Archery Style
Pick up Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Quickdraw as normal feats.
Pick up Precise Strike and Improved Precise Strike as your Style feats if you will be shooting into melee, otherwise Rapid Shot and Many Shot.
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Ranger, switch Hitter 25 pt buy
Str: 17 +2
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 15
Cha: 8
(I think I pointed those properly)
first 2 level bonuses go into evening out str, and then Wis.
I would suggest half elf or human for a ranger the others really don't add too too much. (though the avian aassimars would work ok)
Feats: for human (also helps negate low Int, for 5 skil points per level)
Remeber, 2 handed needs few feats to work well.
1- Power attack, Quickdraw
2- Precise Shot
3- Deadly Aim
5- Point blank shot (or cleave)
6- Many shot
7- Combat Reflexes
9- Snap shot
10- Pinpoint targeting
11- Improved Snap shot (threaten 15ft out with bow)
13- really just icing here.
The Garuda Blooded Aasimar is pretty well designed for rangers. +2 DEX/WIS and a racial bonus on acrobatics which is a pretty useful skill to a melee fighter with light armor.
Oddly there is another thread going on about this option here, but I would say it is most beneficial to give up your see invisibility SLA and get yourself an extra +2 into STR (option 9 on the d% chart in Blood of Angels). The race trait Toxophilite is available to them which is a rare +2 trait bonus on attack rolls to confirm crits with bows.
If archetypes are available, I like Urban Ranger for Trapfinding, if not, it isn't a huge loss.
What is the point buy? I'm guessing it starts at lvl 1?
This race, 20 pt. buy:
(7) STR 17
(7) DEX 17
(5) CON 14
(0) INT 10
(5) WIS 16
(-4) CHA 7
Alternatively you could have a 14 WIS and only an 8 CHA, but since CHA is pretty useless to you, the 16 WIS is more beneficial for skill checks, spells, and saves.
Feats are as always:
1) Power Attack
2) Rapid Shot
3) Deadly Aim
5) Quickdraw
6) Many Shot
The rest of your feats vary based on preference, I like the Dodge and Mobility feats, some people like to take Weapon Focus to get Point Blank master, but the whole point of switch hitting is that you don't need to take point blank shot to get the good archery stuff going on, just make sure you pick up Precise Shot by lvl 10 with combat style feats since they can skip prerequisites.
Switch hitting is very effective and can make your build one of the most versatile and useful martial builds in the game.
This race, 20 pt. buy:
(7) STR 17
(7) DEX 17
(5) CON 14
(0) INT 10
(5) WIS 16
(-4) CHA 7Alternatively you could have a 14 WIS and only an 8 CHA, but since CHA is pretty useless to you, the 16 WIS is more beneficial for skill checks, spells, and saves.
That isn't how point buy works.
17 Str costs 14
15+2 Dex costs 7
14 Con costs 5
10 Int costs 0
14+2 Wis costs 5
7 Cha returns 4
Total 27
Sorry, forgot to mention that we do start at level 1, and it's 20 point buy.
I guess I never really considered the bonus feat that good or interesting, but I'm always told this so maybe I should cave in lol.
The main reason it is so good, is because you are 2 whole levels ahead of the game for feat progression.
The guy who needs 5 feats for his build needs to be level 9. A human only needs to be level 7.
You're always ahead of the game with that extra feat when playing a build that is feat heavy. A switch hitter is very feat starved; there is a lot you want/need to make it effective, and the faster you get it the better the build works.
This race, 20 pt. buy:
(7) STR 17
(7) DEX 17
(5) CON 14
(0) INT 10
(5) WIS 16
(-4) CHA 7Alternatively you could have a 14 WIS and only an 8 CHA, but since CHA is pretty useless to you, the 16 WIS is more beneficial for skill checks, spells, and saves.
That isn't how point buy works.
17 Str costs 14
15+2 Dex costs 7
14 Con costs 5
10 Int costs 0
14+2 Wis costs 5
7 Cha returns 4Total 27
Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
and a 17 stat costs 13 points I believe.
I decided to play Human, so the current 20 point buy I did was
STR 17 (15+2)
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 7Is that okay? And from what I garner, I should take the 'archery' combat style, and simply get a few feats for 2 handed combat while putting the rest to archery?
Yes and a Human can be effective as early as level 3.
Power Attack, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim.
At level 3 you can have all of those feats, and decent scores to go with them.
The real question is how important is that second 17 to you? Those extra 3 points could be spent making one of those twelves a 14 and it would be more effective imo. I would go with a 16 in DEX and a 17 in STR myself.
What books are allowed?
And that array is fine, unless you want to focus more on spellcasting and/or skills in which case I'd go with WIS for your 14, but either one is a good choice, CON ensures survivability and boosts Fort saves, where WIS improves your utility and boosts Will saves.
I'd actually strongly advise to NOT take manyshot as your level 6 feat esp if you have the dex to take it normally. Take Improved Precise Shot, and take Many Shot as your normal level 7 feat.
I'd actually strongly advise to NOT take manyshot as your level 6 feat esp if you have the dex to take it normally. Take Improved Precise Shot, and take Many Shot as your normal level 7 feat.
+1
The real strength of the switch hitting Ranger is the ability to skip the annoying plain Precise Shot, which will just get superseded by the Improved version anyway. Of course you'll still need to pick up PBS, but that will actually pop up more than you would think.
So your feat progression should be something like this (for a human):
1: PBS
1(H):Power Attack
2: Rapid Shot
3(R):Deadly Aim
5: Quickdraw
6(R): Imp. Precise Shot
7:Manyshot
point blank shot is a prereq for other archery feats if you want to take them normally. If you only pick up archery feats with ranger bonus feats then skip it.
Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
No race offers +2 str, dex and wis. The race he was talking about offers +2 dex and wis.
I'd actually strongly advise to NOT take manyshot as your level 6 feat esp if you have the dex to take it normally. Take Improved Precise Shot, and take Many Shot as your normal level 7 feat.+1
The real strength of the switch hitting Ranger is the ability to skip the annoying plain Precise Shot, which will just get superseded by the Improved version anyway. Of course you'll still need to pick up PBS, but that will actually pop up more than you would think.
So your feat progression should be something like this (for a human):
1: PBS
1(H):Power Attack
2: Rapid Shot
3(R):Deadly Aim
5: Quickdraw
6(R): Imp. Precise Shot
7:Manyshot
If you do not take Precise Shot, you still suffer a -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
Why is this good?
If you do not take Precise Shot, you still suffer a -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
Why is this good?
The idea is that you switch to melee when everyone is up close and use your bow as the battle is starting when everything is far away or if you can't hit it with melee.
The idea is that you switch to melee when everyone is up close and use your bow as the battle is starting when everything is far away or if you can't hit it with melee.If you do not take Precise Shot, you still suffer a -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
Why is this good?
Yes but...
...the ability to skip the annoying plain Precise Shot, which will just get superseded by the Improved version anyway.
Is what I was referring to. Improved Precise Shot doesn't remove the -4 penalty. Precise shot doesn't get superseded.
The -4 penalty for shooting into melee is irrelevant with a switch-hitter. You don't sit back and shoot when your allies are in melee smacking enemies, you go up and join them with your own beat-stick.
The -4 penalty for shooting into melee is irrelevant with a switch-hitter. You don't sit back and shoot when your allies are in melee smacking enemies, you go up and join them with your own beat-stick.
Yes but...
...the ability to skip the annoying plain Precise Shot, which will just get superseded by the Improved version anyway.
Is what I was referring to. Improved Precise Shot doesn't remove the -4 penalty. Precise shot doesn't get superseded.
A ranger can, by level 7, have absolutely no reason to use, or desire to use, a melee weapon. They could be so good with a bow that they can use it in melee, shoot even while threatened, and even threaten enemies with it.
At this point, it is simply a superior option altogether, with more attacks per round, full attack nearly every round, and even fighting with it in melee range.
Choosing to split your feats, and gold, between two different fighting styles will always be an inferior play style.
It works fine to use both at lower levels, but to devote resources into both is folly. Pick one and shine at it, or pick both and be mediocre at both.
No race offers +2 str, dex and wis. The race he was talking about offers +2 dex and wis.Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
Please continue telling me I'm wrong after not reading my posts.
D% chart in Blood of Angels (option 9) has the Aasimar lose his Spell Like Ability in favor of a +2 bonus on STR, which is where that came from. I was recommending that such a build be used as it offers a bonus to all the important stats for a ranger.
No race offers +2 str, dex and wis. The race he was talking about offers +2 dex and wis.Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
Please continue telling me I'm wrong after not reading my posts.
D% chart in Blood of Angels (option 9) has the Aasimar lose his Spell Like Ability in favor of a +2 bonus on STR, which is where that came from. I was recommending that such a build be used as it offers a bonus to all the important stats for a ranger.
That requires significant houseruling. I can houserule that humans get +20 to all stats. But I wouldn't just slip that in without explaining that the numbers I generated were from houserules.
So is the idea of 'switch-hitter' essentially "be good at both melee/archery for low levels, until you're good enough at archery to ditch melee entirely"?
And if I continue to do that, should I stick to finding better composite bows that use str mod and focus on buffing str more?
You could focus on melee and use archery as a fallback when you're too far/forced to. Both ways work well... the true switch hitter is going to pick up feats and gear to be mediocre at both options, and it requires being rather min-maxed to pull it off, expect to dump cha into the floor.
If you specialize in one direction or the other, your overall combat proficiency will remain above par, and you don't have to by necessity dump stats into the floor, though you still can if that suits your tastes.
That requires significant houseruling. I can houserule that humans get +20 to all stats. But I wouldn't just slip that in without explaining that the numbers I generated were from houserules.No race offers +2 str, dex and wis. The race he was talking about offers +2 dex and wis.Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
Please continue telling me I'm wrong after not reading my posts.
D% chart in Blood of Angels (option 9) has the Aasimar lose his Spell Like Ability in favor of a +2 bonus on STR, which is where that came from. I was recommending that such a build be used as it offers a bonus to all the important stats for a ranger.
I did explain that... again the whole not reading thing...
I did explain that... again the whole not reading thing...That requires significant houseruling. I can houserule that humans get +20 to all stats. But I wouldn't just slip that in without explaining that the numbers I generated were from houserules.No race offers +2 str, dex and wis. The race he was talking about offers +2 dex and wis.Racial mods dude, +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 WIS
Please continue telling me I'm wrong after not reading my posts.
D% chart in Blood of Angels (option 9) has the Aasimar lose his Spell Like Ability in favor of a +2 bonus on STR, which is where that came from. I was recommending that such a build be used as it offers a bonus to all the important stats for a ranger.
No, ya didn't. Read your post again.
At no point did you say "Oh, well, I just pull this out of..."
master_marshmallow is correct that you can, on a 20 point buy, get the following stats:
Strength 17 (+2 STR from Aasimar racial ability; traded out the see invisiblity spell-like ability that goes along with being Garuda-Blooded. This does not require house-ruling. You're allowed to do so via rules as written. Spent 7 points.)
Dexterity 17 (+2 DEX from Garuda-Blooded Aasimar. Spent 7 points.)
Constitution 14 (Spent 5 points.)
Intelligence 10 (Spent 0 points.)
Wisdom 16 (+2 WIS from Garuda-Blooded Aasimar. Spent 5 points.)
Charisma 7 (Gained 4 points.)
What master_marshmallow failed to do was to completely explain how he arrived at these values. Since you're asking for advice, that would have been helpful. Instead, he chose to accuse you of not reading what he did not write.
Basically, in Blood of Angels, there are some variant Aasimar abilities. You're allowed to choose one from a chart or roll d100 to determine your ability. You can find the chart on pages 18 & 19. You can also read about Garuda-Blooded Aasimar on p. 23.
Hope that helps!
I stand corrected, thejeff. :)
Is a ranger the best class for a switch hitter? Wouldn't a fighter have an easier time covering the feats?
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So is the idea of 'switch-hitter' essentially "be good at both melee/archery for low levels, until you're good enough at archery to ditch melee entirely"?
And if I continue to do that, should I stick to finding better composite bows that use str mod and focus on buffing str more?
Not exactly. The idea is to have two viable methods of attack: Ranged & Melee.
If you do want to lean more towards Archery (the classic Switch Hitter leans more towards melee), you could go the 'Finesse' route by being an Elf with a Curveblade and Weapon Finesse.
DEX becomes primary and STR a secondary stat. Your 'to hit' for both archery & melee improves, but your damage suffers.
The Garuda Blooded Aasimar is pretty well designed for rangers. +2 DEX/WIS and a racial bonus on acrobatics which is a pretty useful skill to a melee fighter with light armor.
Oddly there is another thread going on about this option here, but I would say it is most beneficial to give up your see invisibility SLA and get yourself an extra +2 into STR (option 9 on the d% chart in Blood of Angels). The race trait Toxophilite is available to them which is a rare +2 trait bonus on attack rolls to confirm crits with bows.
If archetypes are available, I like Urban Ranger for Trapfinding, if not, it isn't a huge loss.
What is the point buy? I'm guessing it starts at lvl 1?
Fourth post in the thread.... I definitely said it.
Fourth post in the thread.... I definitely said it.The Garuda Blooded Aasimar is pretty well designed for rangers. +2 DEX/WIS and a racial bonus on acrobatics which is a pretty useful skill to a melee fighter with light armor.
Oddly there is another thread going on about this option here, but I would say it is most beneficial to give up your see invisibility SLA and get yourself an extra +2 into STR (option 9 on the d% chart in Blood of Angels). The race trait Toxophilite is available to them which is a rare +2 trait bonus on attack rolls to confirm crits with bows.
If archetypes are available, I like Urban Ranger for Trapfinding, if not, it isn't a huge loss.
What is the point buy? I'm guessing it starts at lvl 1?
"GMs may customize their aasimar NPCs using the following chart, or allow their players to do so by rolling a d%. Players with a particular character concept in mind may consult their GM if they want to select a specific variant ability."
It is not a standard option.
It requires GM specific approval or houseruling... Making up your own spells requires GM specific approval/housruling too. Why not recommend researching a Miracle-like spell as a 1st level Ranger spell? If the GM approves it, it is all good, right? That certainly beats out a simple +2 str.
No standard PC race offers +2 to three stats. Garuda-blooded offer +2 dex and wis. Beyond that, you've entered houseruling territory.
And of all the things on that chart… why +2 Str? You could pick up +2 dex, for a total of +4 dex and +2 wis. Or heck, there is Spell Resistance on that chart, SR 10+HD seems a mighty fine option for a switch hitting ranger, no?
Oh look! Fly speed 20ft (poor). Wow, you could just pick that option and be the most awesome level 1 character ever!
Wait, what’s that? A roll of 00 on the chart is gain two abilities from the chart? Oh I know! He could just pick option 00, then option 9 AND 20, or 72 AND 99.
…
It is a chart for NPCs. For generating interesting Aasimar NPCs…
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"GMs may customize their aasimar NPCs using the following chart, or allow their players to do so by rolling a d%. Players with a particular character concept in mind may consult their GM if they want to select a specific variant ability."
It is not a standard option.
It requires GM specific approval or houseruling... Making up your own spells requires GM specific approval/housruling too. Why not recommend researching a Miracle-like spell as a 1st level Ranger spell? If the GM approves it, it is all good, right? That certainly beats out a simple +2 str.
No standard PC race offers +2 to three stats. Garuda-blooded offer +2 dex and wis. Beyond that, you've entered houseruling territory.
And of all the things on that chart… why +2 Str? You could pick up +2 dex, for a total of +4 dex and +2 wis. Or heck, there is Spell Resistance on that chart, SR 10+HD seems a mighty fine option for a switch hitting ranger, no?
Oh look! Fly speed 20ft (poor). Wow, you could just pick that option and be the most awesome level 1 character ever!
Wait, what’s that? A roll of 00 on the chart is gain two abilities from the chart? Oh I know! He could just pick option 00, then option 9 AND 20, or 72 AND 99.
…...
Remy,
While you are correct that using the chart requires the approval of your GM, so does playing an Aasimar in the first place, as it's not a "standard" race. However, it does allow you to consult with your GM if you want a particular variant ability. Should you consult your GM and (s)he decides that you can use the variant abilities and select +2 to Strength, or +2 to Dexterity or whichever variant ability you choose, it's perfectly valid. As it requires the exchange of your spell-like ability, it's a valid swap and I don't personally know of any GM that wouldn't specifically disallow it on the basis that it's a variant ability. Character customisation is generally encouraged, but I understand your concern. You're right; it's not a standard option, but you were asking for advise, and the advise offered is valid. However, these are not house-rules; they're variant rules that your GM could very well allow if you call attention to them.
Of course, your GM could make you roll on the chart. Personally, if you have the choice and your GM approves it, I'd recommend the +2 to Dexterity over the +2 to Strength if your GM approves of it. Then again, the spell-like ability that comes with the Garuda-Blooded Aasimar is a decent option, but it is less likely to come up in play than using your Strength or your Dexterity in combat.
Best wishes in creating your best character!
Remy is just ticked off because he got one upped on the point buy counting. If his true concern were allowing an NPC choice for a PC he would have said so instead of "That's not how point-buy works."
Remy is just ticked off because he got one upped on the point buy counting. If his true concern were allowing an NPC choice for a PC he would have said so instead of "That's not how point-buy works."
No race offers +2 str, dex, and wis.
No race offers +2 str, dex, and wis.Remy is just ticked off because he got one upped on the point buy counting. If his true concern were allowing an NPC choice for a PC he would have said so instead of "That's not how point-buy works."
No, they don't, but in the post where I suggested that I even quoted myself citing the specific option from the specific book that would make it possible.
No, they don't, but in the post where I suggested that I even quoted myself citing the specific option from the specific book that would make it possible.No race offers +2 str, dex, and wis.Remy is just ticked off because he got one upped on the point buy counting. If his true concern were allowing an NPC choice for a PC he would have said so instead of "That's not how point-buy works."
But it isn't an option...