It depends on the hex. The majority of them are supernatural (Su) abilities, and those do not generally require verbal, somatic, or material components.
However, Slumber allows for a saving throw. And we have this text (granted, in regards to spells, but I believe the implication is that it applies to any ability or effect that allows for a saving throw):
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
CRB has plenty of supernatural abilities to warrant their own inclusion on the spell saves if they belonged there.
RAW, no obvious effects other than obvious. For example, one encases you in ice. Another puts you sleep. You still don't "know" it's a hex, or whatever, but their of some effects that are blatant.
CRB has plenty of supernatural abilities to warrant their own inclusion on the spell saves if they belonged there.
RAW, no obvious effects other than obvious. For example, one encases you in ice. Another puts you sleep. You still don't "know" it's a hex, or whatever, but their of some effects that are blatant.
So then do you also believe that a creature who uses an Su on a target does not know if the target succeeded on its saving throw? The text that states the 'caster' knows that its ability failed is in the same spells-related section.
Honestly asking. I've never run it that way nor had a GM run it that way; I'd assume that if one doesn't work, the other doesn't either.
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I'd say it requires focus to harness the supernatural tranquilizer that is slumber, and so you would have to make a bluff check to not obviously appear to stop focusing on the conversation and the NPC would start to feel light-headed and drowsy when he had to make the save, so he would break off the conversation and say he really needs to be somewhere. Not RAW, and I might have some difficulty getting this through in PFS, but its how I would rule it.
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Just because the target receives a saving throw, doesn't always mean they're aware of what's going on. As long as the character succeeds on the bluff check vs their sense motive check or perception(not sure which in this case), they should be able to hide it without a problem since the Hex isn't something obvious. Though, the Hex should be something like a touch, or intense stare, or something involving some contact. He would make a Will save, since that's the bodies natural reaction without conscious thinking, and shrug off the odd feeling or succumb to it and act as the Hex intends.
I don't believe there is anything RAW-wise explaining how your scenario should work, so it's really up to the GM and I think the above opinion would be one of the best ways to view/handle it.
I'm in agreement with ArmouredMonk13 here.
Special Abilities
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
Assuming that entry on Supernatural Abilities is exhaustive, and it appears to be, then you have this (also from the Magic section):
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
So, if you've ever wondered why people are suspicious of witches, there it is. :)
@Kazumetsa Raijin: I agree, and didn't mean to intend that succeeding on the saving throw would automatically let them know what was happening. However, if the target of a spell succeeds on a saving throw he does know that something attempted to affect him; in that instance I'd give a bonus to notice further attempts by a caster attempting to stealthily use effects on him.
So then do you also believe that a creature who uses an Su on a target does not know if the target succeeded on its saving throw? The text that states the 'caster' knows that its ability failed is in the same spells-related section.
Honestly asking. I've never run it that way nor had a GM run it that way; I'd assume that if one doesn't work, the other doesn't either.
Correct. For many, the failure, if any, is obvious. Re: slumber. For many others, it is not.
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The Sense Motive DC of a "hunch" is 20. So, if you use slumber hex, and your target says, "What was that? I wonder if that weird dude with the black cat on his shoulder had something to do with it," the chance of you being detected is non-zero.
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@Kazumetsa Raijin: I agree, and didn't mean to intend that succeeding on the saving throw would automatically let them know what was happening. However, if the target of a spell succeeds on a saving throw he does know that something attempted to affect him; in that instance I'd give a bonus to notice further attempts by a caster attempting to stealthily use effects on him.
I totally wasn't referencing you, but that clarification is sexy! haha. I agree with you as well! That all seems perfectly fair to both player and DM.
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So just to re-state the question generally and clearly (for FAQ purposes):
Does a target who succeeds on a saving throw versus a non-spell magical effect (like a supernatural or spell-like ability) "feel a hostile force or a tingle"? Similarly, does the caster of such an effect know that the effect has failed when the target succeeds on a saving throw?
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"You are traversing through a hallway, you hear snoring on the other side of this door."
"With the Scar Hex, I use my Fortune Hex and then Cackle"
"Ok, the guards are awake now"
"We didn't do anything, how are the awake?"
"They heard through the door, 'MWAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA' from the witch"
"..."
Conversely, does the caster know if the target has failed their save if the effect isn't immediately obvious, such as with Evil Eye or Misfortune?
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If the party is noisy, 1d4 Roddy McDowalls will come from the adjoining room (J4) to investigate.
Did we just wander into Warehouse 23? :)
You open the door to find...
...1d100 penguins, all furiously tapdancing on a platform made entirely of Justin Bieber.
Conversely, does the caster know if the target has failed their save if the effect isn't immediately obvious, such as with Evil Eye or Misfortune?
Unless it's called out as an effect or area spell, or seems to function very much like one, I'd say yes.
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Did we just wander into Warehouse 23? :)
You open the door to find...
...1d100 penguins, all furiously tapdancing on a platform made entirely of Justin Bieber.
"One of your party members yells out, 'I hate Justin Bieber!' All the penguins stop dancing, facing your party aggressively. Roll initiative."
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They must wiggle their nose, I think
The requisite "I'll get you my pretty!" tends to be noticeable.
And your little dog, too !