I want a high charismatic character that can do a couple things steal anything I an and talk people into doing what I want
I like thiefs but bards seem high on cha end
we will be starting out at lvl 5 I know I will have high Dex (stealing) cha (probably diplomacy) and int (skill monkey?) So dunno which to go
Btw im GM so I don't want too much damage stealing and cha is good enough for me that way players feel like they do all the work while I provide support and gold lol
Any thoughts ideas on builds magic items I should get archetypes?
Dunno if it helps but other two player will be a Necro with a hint of illous wiz and a ranger based Slaver master
Bards are much better at talking to people and doing cool tricks(magic) than the rogue is. What archetypes you take are really dependent on what you want to do and what type of game your going to be in.
But rogue get bonus to stealing and makes it easier to do so
But rogue get bonus to stealing and makes it easier to do so
Bard and Rogue get the same bonus actually. Its in class for both.
That^, your standard edition rogue has no special bonus to sleight of hand, they do have bonuses to finding and handling traps..but have a look at the archeologist archetype for the bard. You won't find him jumping with a lute into combat, but he'll just fill in that rogue functionality with a big wide use to that charisma stat at the cost of just 2 skillpoints less per level.
Been thinking of how to make a diplomacy maxed out merchant and the archeo bard was my best bet so far.
Check out the Sandman archetype for Bards - it sound consistent with what you desire : )
If you want to play a charismatic thief than your best bet is the archeologist bard. Use his spells to enhance his thievery and no rogue will be able to come close. Spells like mage hand, invisibility, misdirection and others allow you to steal in ways a rogue can only dream of. Play a race the gets extra rounds of performance as a favored class bonus. Also take lingering performance and heroism as your first second level spell. Heroism stacks with archeologist luck so can give you a huge boost as a skill monkey. After 4th level you can take extra rogue talents to pick up some good abilities. I usually go trap spotter and fast stealth.
So strait bard no rogue and I still steal kill and talk my way out of anything? Why doesn't everyone go bard?
Now if I remember correctly bards get craft any? What does that mean
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So strait bard no rogue and I still steal kill and talk my way out of anything? Why doesn't everyone go bard?
Because people are confused and think rogue is good? Long story. Another choice is Inquisitor with conversion domain and/or heretic or infiltrator archetype. You can always take a trait to make sleight of hand in class if your using traits.
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If you are GM and playing a party member I suggest you not worry about going anything really well. Let the PCs excel.
If you want to play a charismatic thief than your best bet is the archeologist bard. Use his spells to enhance his thievery and no rogue will be able to come close. Spells like mage hand, invisibility, misdirection and others allow you to steal in ways a rogue can only dream of. Play a race the gets extra rounds of performance as a favored class bonus. Also take lingering performance and heroism as your first second level spell. Heroism stacks with archeologist luck so can give you a huge boost as a skill monkey. After 4th level you can take extra rogue talents to pick up some good abilities. I usually go trap spotter and fast stealth.
Last couple lines you said at 4th level take rogue talent... I thought we agreed straight bard so no rogue talents? And I read some gm's allow mages sound and stuff like that as a distraction so that's one reason I chose bard and I am creating a race with plenty of fluff for me and one other player (last player wanted to be medium sized gripplis) so we were gonna choose our own favored class the other player being the Necro/illusion wiz
If you want to play a charismatic thief than your best bet is the archeologist bard. Use his spells to enhance his thievery and no rogue will be able to come close. Spells like mage hand, invisibility, misdirection and others allow you to steal in ways a rogue can only dream of. Play a race the gets extra rounds of performance as a favored class bonus. Also take lingering performance and heroism as your first second level spell. Heroism stacks with archeologist luck so can give you a huge boost as a skill monkey. After 4th level you can take extra rogue talents to pick up some good abilities. I usually go trap spotter and fast stealth.Last couple lines you said at 4th level take rogue talent... I thought we agreed straight bard so no rogue talents? And I read some gm's allow mages sound and stuff like that as a distraction so that's one reason I chose bard and I am creating a race with plenty of fluff for me and one other player (last player wanted to be medium sized gripplis) so we were gonna choose our own favored class the other player being the Necro/illusion wiz
The archeologist gets rogue talents. Slower than a rogue, but they do get some, starting from 4th level.
Got it lol thanks yall
Any ideas for feats and magic items to obtain what kind of weapon to use etc
Feats and magic items depend so much on what exat role you want the character to play that it'll be hard to advise without more information.
As for weapons - bards aren't tanks, and decent dex adds up to suggest anything ranged. A pair of heavy crossbows sounds fun if you don't mind spending a spell slot for that unseen servant reloading the one you shot last turn while you aim up the next.
I looked into sandman sounded good at first but i dunno my role is mostly non combative with some support during combat the unseen servant sounds fun that what mage hand?
So keep basic bard it sounds like
This was helpful Yall thanks again just gotta get some feats find some magic items to compliment some loose clothing and im good
So strait bard no rogue and I still steal kill and talk my way out of anything? Why doesn't everyone go bard?
Now if I remember correctly bards get craft any? What does that mean
A lot of people are in denial that the rogue is garbage and/or insist that they have the correct word at the top of their character sheet.
A lot of people are in denial that the rogue is garbage and/or insist that they have the correct word at the top of their character sheet.So strait bard no rogue and I still steal kill and talk my way out of anything? Why doesn't everyone go bard?
Now if I remember correctly bards get craft any? What does that mean
I used to be one of those lol played a cat folk thief I did good with it
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I have to say, I'm struggling enormously to pick rogue talents for my arcaheologist.
At 4th level I picked Combat Trick to get a combat feat - Improved Initiative - and at 8th level I have no idea what to get next.
All the decent rogue talents seem to want sneak attack and all the decent ninja tricks want a ki pool.
Combat Maneuvers really don't work well at those higher levels (about 5+) because of the low BAB resulting in a low CMB vs the unnaturally high CMDs you come across. For that kind of a thing you want a full BAB class like a fighter, gunslinger or battle oracle - and even then I'd question it.
There are some decent rogue talents, but most of them are not about combat. Trap spotter allows you never to have to search for traps. Fast stealth allows you to move at full speed while using stealth. Wall climber gives you a climb speed which not only gives you a +8 to climb but allows you to keep your dexterity bonus to AC while climbing. Terrain Mastery (Urban or Underground) gives you a rangers favored terrain bonus including initiative, stealth, and perception.
There are some decent rogue talents, but most of them are not about combat. Trap spotter allows you never to have to search for traps. Fast stealth allows you to move at full speed while using stealth. Wall climber gives you a climb speed which not only gives you a +8 to climb but allows you to keep your dexterity bonus to AC while climbing. Terrain Mastery (Urban or Underground) gives you a rangers favored terrain bonus including initiative, stealth, and perception.
Most of those aren't that great imo. Trapspotting may as well have been rolled into trapfinding, fast stealth will rarely if ever come up(besides, if your using stealth your invisible anyway... right?), and climbing is useless because for a small bit of gold you can gain a climb speed or fly.
btw, where is wall climber from? I can't seem to find it.
Wall climber is from Ultimate Combat.
Keep in mind that See invisibility and True Seeing both negate invisibility, but not stealth. In any world with magic there will always be means to overcome magic. At higher levels you have to cover both magical and nonmagical defenses if you are going to succeed. Also unless you are using stealth the DC of the perception roll to spot an invisible target is only 20. There are plenty of creatures that can manage that without working up a sweat.
Also what happens if your target is in an antimagic field? A truly world class thief will have a way to deal with any situation.
The fact of the matter is that trap spotting is not rolled into trap finding. So unless you have the talent or are actively looking you don’t get a roll. That is the whole point behind the talent. This also meant that the GM does not say well you never said you were looking for traps.
Fast stealth also applies to other forms of movement. Just because you are flying does not mean they will not notice you.
Man, when you tailor situations to the talent, its amazing how useful these circumstantial abilities get!
Man, when you tailor situations to the talent, its amazing how useful these circumstantial abilities get!
Well if you want to evaluate any ability in the game you will probably have to talk about circumstances/situations where the abilities are going to apply, no?
Man, when you tailor situations to the talent, its amazing how useful these circumstantial abilities get!Well if you want to evaluate any ability in the game you will probably have to talk about circumstances/situations where the abilities are going to apply, no?
You should, however true sight and anti-magic fields aren't everywhere and tend to hurt the party as a whole more than help anyone. It isn't just when they apply, its when the others do not.
Another thing is no one likes saying they search for traps every 10 feet, but that's another problem altogether and I don't like getting into these sort of arguments, hence me just making a single statement rather than going in depth.
This thread is about making a thief type character. Any valuable items should be protected with value appropriate magic or it will have been stolen a long time ago. In the real world we use technology instead of magic to do the same things. True seeing and Antimagic Fields are the equivalent of a laser grid security system seen in so many modern movies.
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Wow, I take back what I said before; the UC rogue talents are actually pretty great compared to the other ones I saw (in the CRB and APG). They're carefully hidden away.
Wow, I take back what I said before; the UC rogue talents are actually pretty great compared to the other ones I saw (in the CRB and APG). They're carefully hidden away.
Also has Black Market Connections, Convincing Lies, and Rumormonger. Those two are just cringe worthy... Lots of bad ones actually. Esoteric scholar makes me sad.
Most of those aren't that great imo. Trapspotting may as well have been rolled into trapfinding, fast stealth will rarely if ever come up(besides, if your using stealth your invisible anyway... right?), ...
I actually gotta say I disagree here. A +5 to stealth while moving is a +5 to stealth while moving. Invisibility is a +20, which is amazing and great, but when you're hiding from multiple people and a D20 lands on a 1 5% of the time, I'll gladly take every little bonus I can get.
Most of those aren't that great imo. Trapspotting may as well have been rolled into trapfinding, fast stealth will rarely if ever come up(besides, if your using stealth your invisible anyway... right?), ...I actually gotta say I disagree here. A +5 to stealth while moving is a +5 to stealth while moving. Invisibility is a +20, which is amazing and great, but when you're hiding from multiple people and a D20 lands on a 1 5% of the time, I'll gladly take every little bonus I can get.
Skill checks don't fail on a one.
Remember, opposed checks have a 38 point swing. You only have too much stealth if your stealth skill is 38 more than the highest perception you'll come up against.
That's not what a 38-point swing means.
So do bards use str or Dex or Hindi I do this with stat dumping as few as possible (cha and int gonna be high) just need to know Dex or str
So do bards use str or Dex or Hindi I do this with stat dumping as few as possible (cha and int gonna be high) just need to know Dex or str
Depends on what your doing with them. There are a lot of builds. A little bit of strength doesn't hurt usually, though dervish dancers can drop it pretty hard and archers are another story. You might consider peeking at one of the handbooks to help figure out what your doing. Some of them are pretty good, some are dated, but its good to have a quick look at direction if you have the spare time.
Bards especially the Archeologist does can work pretty well with well-rounded stats. Depending on your spell selection you may not need a really high CHA. If most of your spells are buffs and utility spells then all you need is enough CHA to cast your highest level spells. A finesse bard does need a good DEX and if he goes the dervish dance route should be decent in combat. INT is important for skills but again does not need to be sky high a 14 will usually do. Don’t dump STR or you will end up with encumbrance issues. I usually go for a 12-13 STR depending on if I want power attack for a more combat focused character. No character can afford to dump CON and survive long. If you really need a dump stat WIS is your only real choice, but I find a 10 WIS works out better.
Make sure you pick up Heroism as your first second level spell. It lasts 10 minutes per level and basically gives you +2 on almost everything you do. Combine that with Archeologist luck and a single point in a class skill gives you a good roll. The trait fates favored means that a single skill point in a class skill gives you a +9 on any skill, and +11 on knowledge skills by 5th level.
Want high int for alkalinity high cha for diplomacy monkey just need to do some decent damage once again mainly gonna buff let pcs deal most damage just don't want to be pointless