Argh, ok. So... I'm sorry to ask this one for gazillionth time here, but there are too many and too long threads about this with people arguing what's right and what's wrong, so please, if anyone can direct me to official statement and/or clarification about following issue, I'd appreciate. Please don't start yet another debate on this, ok?
Empower Spell: If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?
Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.—Sean K Reynolds, 07/08/11
Does this +50% add to the total result AFTER rolling the dice and adding the bonus?
OR
Does this +50% add to the number of the dice rolled (and possible bonus) BEFORE any dice rolled?
First one.
Think about it for a sec.
How do you apply a 1.5x bonus to a number you don't know yet?
Think about it for a sec.
How do you apply a 1.5x bonus to a number you don't know yet?
That's exactly why I couldn't blindly accept the claim it worked the other way around. People still kept saying it worked like you'd add 1,5 x to the number of the dice, not to the total. The main purpose of this question was to get someone better versed in the rules-lawyering than me get things clear :)
Think about it for a sec.
How do you apply a 1.5x bonus to a number you don't know yet?
The only way I can think of this would work would be, say, if you were rolling 2d8+3, roll an additional d8+1 when you throw the dice. Which is needlessly troublesome.
Interesting. I have always read and had it explained as I roll more dice.
So when I empower a fireball at (Lvl 10 caster) it is 10d6 * 1.5 Not 15d6?
When I do an empowered maximized fireball it is 90 not 60 + 5d6?
Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5
Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)
Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5
how can 10d6/2 be higher than 5d6 if that is what you are saying.
And now we are talking about empower please tell me how empower works on a Spell like frostbite say CL 8. Is it then (1d6+8)*1,5 or 1d6*1,5+8 the first will put empower quite a bit over maximise on some spells but it seem to be what the book tells us to do, i think.
how can 10d6/2 be higher than 5d6 if that is what you are saying.
I go off of probabilities. Expected value was the wrong word since they both have the same expected value. It is more probable that you will roll the average of 17 if you use 10d6 vs 5d6.
Dice probabilities interest me especially when calculating % increases when I give you +x to your rolls, this is also a reason why I love to play craps!
Check out this for more information. Click on the View Graph button, it will make it easier to read.
anydice.com
You will notice however that it does work against you for the probability or rolling a number higher than 20.
Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5how can 10d6/2 be higher than 5d6 if that is what you are saying.
And now we are talking about empower please tell me how empower works on a Spell like frostbite say CL 8. Is it then (1d6+8)*1,5 or 1d6*1,5+8 the first will put empower quite a bit over maximise on some spells but it seem to be what the book tells us to do, i think.
It's (1d6+8)x1.5.
Interesting. I have always read and had it explained as I roll more dice.
So when I empower a fireball at (Lvl 10 caster) it is 10d6 * 1.5 Not 15d6?
When I do an empowered maximized fireball it is 90 not 60 + 5d6?
Well, technically it is 10d6 x .5 and add 60. But... no one is 'really' going to care much if you just roll the 5d6 and add 60.
What if you were 9th level? How do you plan to roll 4.5d6 and add 54? You roll 9d6, half it, and add 54.
You always roll the number of dice based on your caster level for the spell, as indicated, everything else is what you do with that result.
Does it 'actually' matter? No one I've ever played with cares, or notices, or bothers to even pretend to care or notice.
It's (1d6+8)x1.5.Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5how can 10d6/2 be higher than 5d6 if that is what you are saying.
And now we are talking about empower please tell me how empower works on a Spell like frostbite say CL 8. Is it then (1d6+8)*1,5 or 1d6*1,5+8 the first will put empower quite a bit over maximise on some spells but it seem to be what the book tells us to do, i think.
Thanks! I was hoping for that.
Is gonna make my empowered frostbite evil on the later levels:)
Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5
It actually has a slightly lower expected value. The rounding sees to that. You're right that it's more clustered, though.
It actually has a slightly lower expected value. The rounding sees to that. You're right that it's more clustered, though.Works for me. I have been doing 60 + 5d6. 60 + 10d6 *.5 has a higher expected value. :)Maximized has a specific interaction with empower that causes you to roll dice when you otherwise would not.
So normally it's 10d6 *1.5
but because empower requires you to add 50% of a rolled value, maximized + empower becomes 60 + 10d6 *0.5
Because you round Down?