I'm 100% sure that Deth has a different idea of murderhobo playstyle than me since he keeps putting it in the worst possible light he can.
I found a generally accepted internet definition. Of course, one can try the Humpty-Dumpty rule "a word means whatever I say it does", but most of us mere mortals will use a 3rd party definition when debating. Once you choose to use a Humpty-Dumpty definition then there can be no debate.
Having played probably a majority of the PFS scenarios in existence now, I can honestly say that over half of them basically tell you to go be murderhobos.
Please cite the ones that do. I have never played or read a Paizo AP where wanton killing of NPC's is suggested, and in fact, generally playing a Evil PC is outright banned.
Having played probably a majority of the PFS scenarios in existence now, I can honestly say that over half of them basically tell you to go be murderhobos.Please cite the ones that do. I have never played or read a Paizo AP where wanton killing of NPC's is suggested, and in fact, generally playing a Evil PC is outright banned.
To be fair, if your definition includes killing the venture captain giving the order, most of them can't be. There are plenty that can be "Go here, wipe out this place!"(Icebound Outpost and some of the other Houjin Tapestry missions) or ones that go into an urban area and can be very messy(Shadows Last Stand or Severing Ties). There's even one where you don't get full Gold unless you extort a store owner.
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O_O you actually give gold away, and turn down gifts? Are you sure you're playing the game right TOZ? I jest, this would be rare in any of the games I run. The PCs revel in looting the deceased, even their own, and using that loot as needed or by getting new shiny things.
He makes the campaign an interesting one. I think I need to bump the treasure up in a few encounters to help the party out.
It would seem to be bad scenario design to me. After all, murder is evil. Do enough of it and you'll see an alignment change to evil at which point that character should get booted from PFS. Which seems odd for just completing the Society's missions.
Society is weird in that it has a "don't be evil rule!" and no set GM or players, and it tries to be morally ambiguous if ever moral. You essentially let a bunch of loosely related strangers out into the city with a particular mission that may or may not involve; murder, theft, extortion, paid assassination, etc.(Organ theft is one of the things I was told to do...) Some missions you never deal with a human being in friendly terms, so its just stab stab stab and move onto the next stab stab stab(my least favorite type!). Its not always the scenario, sometimes its the players or the GM. Some really play up social encounters so you need to roleplay, others have almost no roleplay.
There's also the difference between where you play. Some are pretty quick to pounce on you for different things, others are pretty lax about darn near everything. That's the nature of social groups though, and its not necessarily a bad thing.
I found a generally accepted internet definition. Of course, one can try the Humpty-Dumpty rule "a word means whatever I say it does", but most of us mere mortals will use a 3rd party definition when debating. Once you choose to use a Humpty-Dumpty definition then there can be no debate.
I'm 100% sure that Deth has a different idea of murderhobo playstyle than me since he keeps putting it in the worst possible light he can.
Your definition is more restrictive than most here and your examples seem like an extreme interpretation of that definition.
I'm very opposed to the argument that "adventurers" == "murderhobos", but I'd still argue that the standard trope of "Look! A goblin village. Let's kill them and take their stuff." is pretty much the epitome of murderhoboing. Which is why I don't play that way.
You don't actually have to slaughter all the local authorities and civilians to qualify.
Not my defintion. I found a standard internet definition. Until soemone comes up with something besides a "Humpty-Dumpty" defintion, it's the best we have.
And, I don't even see that sort of thing. Yes, the Sheriff in Sandpoint does ask you to look into the goblin problem, but that's not the same.
standard internet definition.
Pfft, not my standard.
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Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
Note that its the default solution, not the solution they have to try with EVERY problem. So they do slaughter the goblins, but not necessarily the venture captain.
Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
which is exactly where I got my definition, which you cut off from theirs:" In many games (especially older pure hack and slash-types of the type that Gary Gygax despised) killing things and taking their stuff is simply the order of the day, all morally acceptable and proper, either because that's all the players are interested in doing or all the GM can come up with. In more nuanced settings, "Murderhobo(s)" is used especially to refer to characters (or entire parties) of looser morals who tend to regard massive collateral damage as an inevitable and unremarkable consequence of their actions, or who are quite happy to slaughter otherwise friendly NPCs at slight provocation or the prospect of financial gain (basically, munchkins)."
which you cut off from theirs
Doesn't that mean you both cut off though?
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Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
Note that its the default solution, not the solution they have to try with EVERY problem. So they do slaughter the goblins, but not necessarily the venture captain.
Like I said, really more transient vigilantee, but murderhobo rolls off the tongue a lot better.
Lacking credibility or not, it at least seems accurate.
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I can honestly say that, in spite of it apparently being one POSSIBLE definition of murderhobo, I don't know many people that use that particular definition. 'Bout everybody I know, and apparently a lot of people on these forums, use murderhobo's more standard meaning; a migratory party that kills and reaps like it's their freakin' job. ... Of course, I suppose it technically is their job by that point. Thus we come back to Profession: Murderhobo.
Lacking credibility or not, it at least seems accurate.
Better than a Humpty-Dumpty one, anyway.
This is why I always get houses. A home wherever we go, so no hoboing.
If there is a union for it, then it can be a profession. Whether people choose to respect said profession is another issue entirely. In any case, we can be quite persuasive in collecting the respect that is owed to us murderhoboes. Please make our job a lot easier in the first place by respecting our profession from the get-go, rather than forcing Louis to make you pay respect. Hopefully, we have come to an understanding, right?
Sincerely yours,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
One race's invading murderhoboes are another's crusading knights. I think it is all about perspective. True kill-everyone-you-see murderhoboes would eventually become ostracized bandits unable to safely interact with anyone.
Sure, pathfinders are murderhoboes to goblin necromancers or Aspis agents. But are they murderhoboes to their neighbors in absalom? Do they have morals and values and 'play nice' with their home society?
The most brutal viking raiders returned home to their culture and interacted with it quite well (a violent culture, but a lawful one).
In short, if you ask the dungeon denizens, adventurers are murderhoboes. The real question is, what do the local townsfolk think?
Sure, pathfinders are murderhoboes to goblin necromancers or Aspis agents. But are they murderhoboes to their neighbors in absalom? Do they have morals and values and 'play nice' with their home society?
Scarzini player with a caravan using the intimidate option for dayjobs. Sure he's not burning down your houses, but....
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You. Yeah you, with the tusks. You need iron rations. Lots of 'em. Let's say about 200 gold pieces worth. I don't care what you do with 'em, but you need iron rations.
I admit, some of the Scarzni stuff is shady. Not murderhoboish, as it's civilized extortion instead of indescriminate murder.
Now what would be cool is if adventurers went into the dungeons, beat up the monsters, let them live, and came back monthly to take 'protection money', and god forbid the goblins or stone giants didn't make their quota!
Like I said, really more transient vigilantee, but murderhobo rolls off the tongue a lot better.
Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
Note that its the default solution, not the solution they have to try with EVERY problem. So they do slaughter the goblins, but not necessarily the venture captain.
I liked Manslaughter Nomad from a couple pages back, myself. But murderhobo just sounds cooler.
I found a standard internet definition.
Did you also find a real life flying firebreathing dragon? Or a unicorn? Cause that would be easier.
Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
Note that its the default solution, not the solution they have to try with EVERY problem. So they do slaughter the goblins, but not necessarily the venture captain.
That is my definition too. Which makes about 90% of all adventurers into murderhobos.
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You. Yeah you, with the tusks. You need iron rations. Lots of 'em. Let's say about 200 gold pieces worth. I don't care what you do with 'em, but you need iron rations.
I admit, some of the Scarzni stuff is shady. Not murderhoboish, as it's civilized extortion instead of indescriminate murder.
Now what would be cool is if adventurers went into the dungeons, beat up the monsters, let them live, and came back monthly to take 'protection money', and god forbid the goblins or stone giants didn't make their quota!
So there's this sczarni mission that involves tearing out someone's tongue... >_>
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And the way I see things, killing isnt murder. See my thread on the subject of killing and murder.The American legal system would like a word with you. Very rarely does someone get off with manslaughter even if they had a good reason to end another person's life. The legal system tends to look at any form of killing other than accidental or self-defense as being murder, and half the time accidental slayings still get treated as murder.
Bearing that in mind, about 90% of fights you encounter in written materials (and indeed in purely home games from my and many others' experiences) are started by the PCs. Sure, the target might be Darth Evil McBadGuy, but they attacked first.
I dont know who you play with but the groups I play with very rarely if ever start fights unless its like you pointed out, BBEG needs to be taken out as quickly as possible to prevent X.
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So there's this sczarni mission that involves tearing out someone's tongue... >_>You. Yeah you, with the tusks. You need iron rations. Lots of 'em. Let's say about 200 gold pieces worth. I don't care what you do with 'em, but you need iron rations.
I admit, some of the Scarzni stuff is shady. Not murderhoboish, as it's civilized extortion instead of indescriminate murder.
Now what would be cool is if adventurers went into the dungeons, beat up the monsters, let them live, and came back monthly to take 'protection money', and god forbid the goblins or stone giants didn't make their quota!
And an andoran assassination mission to cover up an affair
And an andoran assassination mission to cover up an affairSo there's this sczarni mission that involves tearing out someone's tongue... >_>You. Yeah you, with the tusks. You need iron rations. Lots of 'em. Let's say about 200 gold pieces worth. I don't care what you do with 'em, but you need iron rations.
I admit, some of the Scarzni stuff is shady. Not murderhoboish, as it's civilized extortion instead of indescriminate murder.
Now what would be cool is if adventurers went into the dungeons, beat up the monsters, let them live, and came back monthly to take 'protection money', and god forbid the goblins or stone giants didn't make their quota!
There was a grand lodge mission where you go out for a less than voluntary organ donation to the society... for science, of course.
Could make a pretty long list of bad things you do in society.
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which is exactly where I got my definition
Wait, so your highly touted "standard internet definition" comes from the amazingly reliable and highly respected 1d4chan? An offshoot of 4chan?
Dude, way to shoot any credibility you had in the knee. With an arrow.
Considering that he went hunting for the definition of the asinine term "murderhobo", where did you expect him to find it? The Oxford Dictionary? Of course it will be on a site like 1d4chan or the Encyclopedia Dramatica.
Like I said, really more transient vigilantee, but murderhobo rolls off the tongue a lot better.
Murderhobo (or murder hobo, etc.) is a term used (originally pejoratively, but occasionally affectionately) for the player characters in RPGs, both in video games and tabletop games. The term arises due to the fact that most adventuring characters and parties are technically homeless vagrants, generally living on the road and sometimes in temporary accommodation, and the default solution to problems faced by the typical adventurer boils down to killing things until the problem is solved or treasure is acquired.
Note that its the default solution, not the solution they have to try with EVERY problem. So they do slaughter the goblins, but not necessarily the venture captain.
transient vigilante..... Interesting Kthulhu, interesting
Also like manslaughter nomad.
What gets me about this thread are the many definitions and the many ways one could end up murderhoboing and not realize it. Much of this has to do with the campaign setting, I think. There are some worlds that reward this behavior more openly than others. Also some damn good points about certain things PF society missions made here.
Indiscriminant hunter
passionately entropic?
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Avid psychopomp?
What would a murderhobo who hunts murderhobos be called?
What would a murderhobo who hunts murderhobos be called?
Dead.
Sincerely yours,~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
What would a murderhobo who hunts murderhobos be called?Dead.
Sincerely yours,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
The only person capable of hunting murderhobos would be a murderhobo. Doesn't make the rep wrong though:
Good Murderhobos kill Evil Murderhobos. And vice versa.Lawful Murderhobos kill Chaotic Murdehobos. The opposite is also true.
Neutral Murderhobos kill whatever they want.
In the end everyone kills, and everyone dies. And some even get ressurrected.
Murderhobos Motto: Live well, get rich, party hard, die fighting and do it all again on the afterlife.
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?
How does one become a Lawful adventurer?
Those two words are synonyms after all.Edit: We also have a Union. That's very Lawful.
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?
You obey the Murderhobo's Code.
It's sorta like the Paladin's code, except instead of losing all of your special abilities you end up with more money if you violate it. Of course, you also end up with other murderhobos more likely to kill you... So, it's a bit of a trade-off.
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?How does one become a Lawful adventurer?
Those two words are synonyms after all.Edit: We also have a Union. That's very Lawful.
Pfft, the union of chaos disagrees!
Wait, we? Your a murderhobo and part of the union?
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?How does one become a Lawful adventurer?
Those two words are synonyms after all.Edit: We also have a Union. That's very Lawful.
Pfft, the union of chaos disagrees!
Wait, we? Your a murderhobo and part of the union?
The "Union of Chaos" is merely the nickname given to our filing system due to an incident involving a goblin lore oracle and a cleric with the madness domain. Both have been made to sincerely regret the error.
In regards to VM mercenario's membership, he is presently a candidate under consideration. I am told that, due to your unusual (while not unprecedented) choice of payment, it is being examined by our forgery specialists and resident diviners to verify its authenticity. Do tell, what did you donate in place of gold that caused all this fuss?
Sincerely yours,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
How does one become a lawful murderhobo?How does one become a Lawful adventurer?
Those two words are synonyms after all.Edit: We also have a Union. That's very Lawful.
Pfft, the union of chaos disagrees!
Wait, we? Your a murderhobo and part of the union?
The "Union of Chaos" is merely the nickname given to our filing system due to an incident involving a goblin lore oracle and a cleric with the madness domain. Both have been made to sincerely regret the error.
In regards to VM mercenario's membership, he is presently a candidate under consideration. I am told that, due to your unusual (while not unprecedented) choice of payment, it is being examined by our forgery specialists and resident diviners to verify its authenticity. Do tell, what did you donate in place of gold that caused all this fuss?
Sincerely yours,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
Hand of Vecna. Figured an artefact would keep my annuals payed for a couple of decades. Learned my lesson after my fiancee turned out to be a union enforcer a couple of pages back. Luckly an innatentive union representative leaked that info on an unsecured forum, so I had enough time to call off the wedding.
Hand of Vecna. Figured an artefact would keep my annuals payed for a couple of decades. Learned my lesson after my fiancee turned out to be a union enforcer a couple of pages back. Luckly an innatentive union representative leaked that info on an unsecured forum, so I had enough time to call off the wedding.
You turned in the hand? I tried turning in the head.
Vecna is very, very good at playing dead, sadly... I still don't know what happened to that building after it disappeared into a vortex of darkness...
They turned down my application after that.
A friend of mine described it as:
Killing things gives you magic points (XP) that you can use to get better at killing things. You end up fabulously wealthy, but that stuff is mainly used on killing things, so you're trapped in a cycle. Until you retire, but you usually don't want to.
Of course you don't actually have to kill anything to earn XP you need to "defeat" creatures or challenges. You can do this with absolutely no killing. And you don't need to take anyone's stuff, treasure can be handed out as rewards or payment for services.
Of course D&D/Pathfinder/most roleplaying games are designed so people can play heros taking on hideous evil to save civilization (or the natural world if you are a druid)so taking hideous evil's stuff after you defeat it generally is not seen as a problem.
Obviously I think this issue is pretty overblown because it is slightly humorous and slightly similar to the way most people play, kind of like Hackmaster is a good parody of D&D.