Profession (Murderhobo)


Rules Questions

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Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

RAW, can I make up a profession skill for my character? Could I have ranks in Profession (Underwater Basket Weaver) if I really wanted to?

This is a PFS question, so literal and RAW answers are preferred. Specifically for PFS, could I make day job checks in my chosen profession?

Addendum: What about craft? Can I make one of those up too?

Grand Lodge

I cannot see why any rule wouldn't extend to profession, craft, and perform. Nor do I know of any rule that would prevent such a thing. However, if it seems an unlikely profession I wouldn't be surprised by reactions from the GM and fellow players. Even if it isn't prevented mechanically speaking.

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Skill Focus (Perform [Artistic Murderhoboing])

Dark Archive

Yes, you can. However what your missing out on is you can use your craft or profession check to also work as a knowledge check pertaining to anything in that field.

Grand Lodge

That's good stuff right there. Use at your own risk.

Sczarni

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.


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There is an NPC in Kingmaker that has the Aquatic subtype and has ranks in Craft: Basketweaving.


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Should be legal. Profession is pretty vague. Just watch out for jerk GMs who don't share your sense of humor and think you should be punished for your murderhoboing.

Sczarni

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<== Jerk GM here.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.

Taking murder as a profession requires you to be evil. Which would write you right out of the campaign.


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LazarX wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.

Taking murder as a profession requires you to be evil. Which would write you right out of the campaign.

All pathfinders are now written out of the campaign then. Sort of part of the job is creating a mountain of corpses outside of particular builds.


There does not seem to be anything in the Day Job section of the Guide to Organized Society Play that rules against this, that I can find with a quick glance.

That being said, most GMs I've played with in PFS just simply say, "Does anyone have a day job roll to make?" We then go around the table and do so. Very few people that I have encountered in my area ask anything about day jobs beyond the final numerical score and money/gp value gained as a result of the roll.

I would certainly say, however, that in the PFS games that I GM I would not allow your chosen "murderhobo" profession or performance to have any in-game impact beyond your day job check.


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I was under the impression that taking Profession (Murderhobo) just meant you didn't have to bother actively playing any longer as you've reduced the entire game to a single mechanic.

Sczarni

LazarX wrote:
Taking murder as a profession requires you to be evil. Which would write you right out of the campaign.

Let's not evolve this ridiculous premise into another 500+ post alignment discussion.

To answer the question, RAW, you pick a Profession, Craft, or Perform skill. Something people would pay you for, and that you could not only make a living off of, but that you could base a career on.

The CRB gives you some examples, but it obviously can't list them all. It's open-ended. Pick something that's understandable, interesting to your character, and that doesn't advertise yourself as a jerk (or as someone who's looking to push boundaries just because).

Profession (Internet Troll) would likewise not be legal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't have a character with it but I have thought of giving one the Profession (pathfinder).


Profession: Aspis Consortium Agent?

Not that they tend to have lengthy careers.


I never heard the term murderhobo... Is this a hobo who kills people or a guy killing hobos?

Very funny btw.

Sczarni

It's an Internet term used to describe the philosophy behind Rpgs with player characters that are essentially going out into the world and killing indiscriminately to accomplish their goals and gain XP.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Reverendfresh wrote:

I never heard the term murderhobo... Is this a hobo who kills people or a guy killing hobos?

Very funny btw.

It's a derogatory or joking term for Pathfinders - most characters have no home or backstory, and their "job" is working for the Pathfinder Society - which involves the creation of a very large number of corpses.

Sczarni

The term predates PFS and Pathfinder, though.


Thank you all for the explaining.
Now I am wondering about a term in my language :-D
Pennermörder may work.


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Nothing beats,
the hobo life;
stabbing people,
with my hobo knife!

Sczarni

Yes, Profession (Singer) is a valid option.


MrSin wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.

Taking murder as a profession requires you to be evil. Which would write you right out of the campaign.
All pathfinders are now written out of the campaign then. Sort of part of the job is creating a mountain of corpses outside of particular builds.

All murder might be killing but not all killing is murder.


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Revrendfresh: thank you for sharing that term. Pennermorder sounds like an AWESOME name to incorporate somewhere in my homebrew.

While I don't know that I'd allow (Murderhobo) as a profession, I've certainly allowed several bizare crafts, performances and professions such as exotic dancer, fight promoter and kelp weaver. I've allowed these in homebrew games since there's no RAW against making up new ones outside what the CRB suggests. I'm sure then that PFS would have no issue with the generation of new skill specialties.


I would not allow profession: murderhobo, but I would allow profession: mercenary or assassin, etc. Of course, assassin would probably require you to be evil. In which case PFS says you're out.

Sczarni

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Mark Hoover wrote:
I'm sure then that PFS would have no issue with the generation of new skill specialties.

PFS games are still run by GMs, and we still have the ability to make a judgment call. If someone actually had ranks in Profession (Murderhobo) I would make the decision that said player was not taking the game seriously and was actively being a jerk for no purpose other than to push the limits of an abstraction of reality.

I wouldn't tear up their sheet, I wouldn't contact Mike Brock, I'd simply sigh and turn to the next player and ask him/her if they had a Day Job they'd like to roll.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I demand lyrics for "Murderhobo's Paradise".

Grand Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:
I'm sure then that PFS would have no issue with the generation of new skill specialties.

PFS games are still run by GMs, and we still have the ability to make a judgment call. If someone actually had ranks in Profession (Murderhobo) I would make the decision that said player was not taking the game seriously and was actively being a jerk for no purpose other than to push the limits of an abstraction of reality.

I wouldn't tear up their sheet, I wouldn't contact Mike Brock, I'd simply sigh and turn to the next player and ask him/her if they had a Day Job they'd like to roll.

I would hope Mike Brock would tell you to "simmer down Cesar" make your ruling and move on. Hopefully your event organizer is in agreement with you also.


Could I have Profession (Historian of the Planes) or Profession (Outsider Consultant) or something similar to make my Knowledge Planes checks?

Sczarni

The DC is increased when you use a Profession instead of the actual skill (+5 iirc), so you may as well just take Knowledge (Planes).

Edit:

PRD wrote:
You can also answer questions about your Profession. Basic questions are DC 10, while more complex questions are DC 15 or higher.


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Jiggy wrote:
I demand lyrics for "Murderhobo's Paradise".

As you requested:
As I walk through the valley of Pharasma's good death,

I take a look at my spellbook and realize there's nothin' left!
Cause I've been blasting and casting so long
that even Ragathiel thinks my alignment is gone!
But I ain't never killed a monster that didn't deserve it.
Me be treated like an NPC? You know that's unheard of!
You better five-foot step in the other direction
or you and your homies won't be valid for resurrection.
I really hate to kill but I need the loot,
got my eyes on a new pair of magic boots, fool.
I'm the kind of Wizard little gnomies wanna be like,
On my knees in the morning learning spells like an acolyte!

Been spending most their lives, in a murderhobo's paradise,
Been spending most their lives, in a murderhobo's paradise.
Been spending most our lives, in a murderhobo's paradise
Been spending most our lives, in a murderhobo's paradise.

Shadow Lodge

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We have a professional henchman. That might qualify as a substitute of murderhobo.

Merriam-Webster wrote:
Henghman: a trusted follower or supporter who performs unpleasant, wrong, or illegal tasks for a powerful person (such as a politician or criminal)


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Jiggy wrote:
I demand lyrics for "Murderhobo's Paradise".

As I walk through the city that the peasants maintain

I take a look at my purse and realize its almost drained
But thats no problem for a MurderHobo you see
Filling it back up to the brim is mere simplicity

At 4:30 in the morning I'm killin' drows
Jebediah offs the kobolds and Jacob scowls... fool

I've be killin and looting so long that
Even Gorum thinks that my mind is gone

I'm a man on the land and go into dungeons
Got Chaotic good on my sheet, barabzu beard on my chin

But if I make all my DC's, and you make all thine
We'll wrack up prestige like its 4099

We been spending most our lives
Living murder hobo's paradise
Commited arson once or twice
Living murder hobo's paradise
It's hard work to sacrifice
Peasants in a Hobos paradise
plus twelve to all my dice
rollin murder hobos paradise

A venture captain irked me somethin fierce last week
I cursed him out and gave a lot of cheek
I really don't care, in fact I wish him well
'Cause I'll be laughing my head off when he sees the DC of my spell

But I ain't never slain a newbie even if he deserved it
Hittin Level seven? Now we can fry him a bit

Smash the I-win buttons till the monster goes splat
And my party agrees this loot is pretty phat...fool

If you get arrested there's nothing to fear
We Haven't even take the paid taxes in 400 years.

But we ain't really Heroes, even if we put on airs
We're just moralthically impaired

There's no laws no, rights, no justicar
Not a single shred mercy
Like Dralneen in the bedroom
Its barbaric as can be

We been spending most our lives
Livin Murder hobo's paradise
Commited arson once or twice
Livin murder hobo's paradise
Nothing but sin and vice
Living murder hobo's paradise
We all fight we don't play nice
Livin murder hobo's paradise

Killin all the townsfolk, Its why they call him Cutter
Rais a level monday, Soon I'll raise another

Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart?
Well I know I've got more hit points so I'll give you a head start

I'm the pious guy the little pallies wanna be like
Slayin foes day and night scorin' points for the afterlife
So don't be vain and don't be whiny
Or else, my brother, I might have to get medieval on your heinie

We been spending most our lives
Living murder hobo's paradise...

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

*wipes away a solitary tear*

You guys make me so proud. Those songs... they're beautiful.


Nefreet wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:
I'm sure then that PFS would have no issue with the generation of new skill specialties.

PFS games are still run by GMs, and we still have the ability to make a judgment call. If someone actually had ranks in Profession (Murderhobo) I would make the decision that said player was not taking the game seriously and was actively being a jerk for no purpose other than to push the limits of an abstraction of reality.

I wouldn't tear up their sheet, I wouldn't contact Mike Brock, I'd simply sigh and turn to the next player and ask him/her if they had a Day Job they'd like to roll.

Because being passive aggressive and denying them something over 2 words is so much better? Bit of an overreaction imo.

Sczarni

Oh, no, I'd make it plainly clear that was unacceptable.

No passive agressiveness intended. I only operate directly.


Nefreet wrote:
Oh, no, I'd make it plainly clear that was unacceptable.

Its not unacceptable though. There isn't a rule saying no. Part of being in an organized campaign is understanding you'll be with numerous other players and that you are not the overlord and arbiter of what is right and wrong. Choosing not to give them their day job roll is passive aggressive, and no one is harmed by someone saying their a murderhobo on the weekend.

Dark Archive

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Nefreet wrote:

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.

... Yeah, they really don't actually have much control. If there is no rule against having something as silly as Profession: Murderhobo, your refusal to allow rolls for it would be considered a violation of the rules, and therefore subject to being reported to a VO. As a GM, you have the authority to make a judgment call. You do NOT have the authority to shut out perfectly legal abilities, skill checks, or interesting uses of terrain that do not in any way violate any rules. Profession: Murderhobo would in fact not be offensive (unless someone is SUPREMELY uptight), is in no way, shape or form disruptive to a game, and in no way violates the spirit of the game. If I had that a profession that centered around doing bad things to get paid by even worse people (not that different than just belonging to the Sczarni faction >_>) and you refused to allow my roll, I'd definitely report it. I would also encourage others to report it.

Sczarni

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And I'd be perfectly fine having that report made.

Dark Archive

Here's the question. In what way is it wrong? It's basically just another word for saying you're the guy a mob boss sends to "collect" his money when used in this context, and don't say it breaks immersion. The Sczarni faction is pretty much blatantly evil at times, and almost always willing to be quite violent in their methods of getting what they want. There are no objections to what they do, and normally not to what we do for them as part of a faction mission.

Sczarni

You should research the Sczarni more before you post inaccuracies about them.

Dark Archive

.. You apparently haven't played many Sczarni characters if you think they don't send you to do some pretty bad things to people at times. Well, no matter. It's obvious based on your passive aggressive response that you have no intention of providing any legitimate reasoning behind your apparent dislike of someone's profession being the harming of others. This is unfortunate, as I had been rather curious.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Beard wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

As a PFS GM I would not allow you to make Profession (Murderhobo) checks as a Day Job, and I would not allow you any related knowledge checks.

Murderhobo-ing is not a thing. It's Internet slang, and does not exist in the world of Golarion (or IRL, as a profession, at least).

Underwater Basket Weaver I would allow. This is a thing (I've even done it before IRL myself).

Not everything in PFS is RAW. GMs still have some purview.

... Yeah, they really don't actually have much control. If there is no rule against having something as silly as Profession: Murderhobo, your refusal to allow rolls for it would be considered a violation of the rules, and therefore subject to being reported to a VO. As a GM, you have the authority to make a judgment call. You do NOT have the authority to shut out perfectly legal abilities, skill checks, or interesting uses of terrain that do not in any way violate any rules. Profession: Murderhobo would in fact not be offensive (unless someone is SUPREMELY uptight), is in no way, shape or form disruptive to a game, and in no way violates the spirit of the game. If I had that a profession that centered around doing bad things to get paid by even worse people (not that different than just belonging to the Sczarni faction >_>) and you refused to allow my roll, I'd definitely report it. I would also encourage others to report it.

I would love to have someone report me on that basis.

Sczarni

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The Beard wrote:
.. You apparently haven't played many Sczarni characters if you think they don't send you to do some pretty bad things to people at times. Well, no matter. It's obvious based on your passive aggressive response that you have no intention of providing any legitimate reasoning behind your apparent dislike of someone's profession being the harming of others. This is unfortunate, as I had been rather curious.

Besides the fact that the term "Murderhobo" is Internet slang, and does not exist, I view the idea behind it no different than Profession (Rapist), Profession (Murderer), or any other heinous act.

If you really wish me, as your GM, to write something down on your sheet, I'd be all too happy to. It might just not be what you'd want me to put on it ("Inappropriate Day Job made, Alignment Infraction").

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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The Beard wrote:
Here's the question. In what way is it wrong? It's basically just another word for saying you're the guy a mob boss sends to "collect" his money when used in this context, and don't say it breaks immersion. The Sczarni faction is pretty much blatantly evil at times, and almost always chaotic evil in thought. There are no objections to what they do, and normally not to what we do for them as part of a faction mission.

PCs are required to not be evil.

You can have whatever background or Day Job you want, but one that requires a string of evil actions will invoke the Alignment Infractions portion of the Guide to Organized Play, so the GM would have to warn the player of the consequences of making such a Day Job check. If they proceed, their are alignment consequences based on the campaign rules. That may include removing their PC from the campaign.

Dark Archive

It is indeed a reportable offense, even if only a minor one. GMs aren't supposed to prevent people from utilizing PFS legal options, are they? It isn't about the type of offense so much as the fact that there's a GM willingly breaking rules to uphold their own view.

Okay, so how exactly is having a dayjob that involves causing bodily harm to others an evil act? Have you SEEN what Pathfinders do while out on missions? The Society is not good aligned by any stretch of the word. It is NEUTRAL. You can hurt people without being evil, just like you can refrain from helping a person in need and continue being good aligned.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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The Beard wrote:
It is indeed a reportable offense, even if only a minor one. GMs aren't supposed to prevent people from utilizing PFS legal options, are they? It isn't about the type of offense so much as the fact that there's a GM willingly breaking rules to uphold their own view.

So I guess you'd report Nefreet for disallowing the roll, but be fine with me perma-banning your now-evil PC after you proceed with what I warned you was a long string of unquestionably evil actions?

Fair enough. :)

Dark Archive

Jiggy wrote:
The Beard wrote:
It is indeed a reportable offense, even if only a minor one. GMs aren't supposed to prevent people from utilizing PFS legal options, are they? It isn't about the type of offense so much as the fact that there's a GM willingly breaking rules to uphold their own view.

So I guess you'd report Nefreet for disallowing the roll, but be fine with me perma-banning your now-evil PC after you proceed with what I warned you was a long string of unquestionably evil actions?

Fair enough. :)

Show me where in the rules causing bodily harm to an individual (not defenseless) that has done something to warrant it is an evil act. From the way you're all acting, it sounds like you'd also punish someone for Profession: Soldier if they were from a nation whose military practice is to take no prisoners, of which there are some on Golarion. We seem to be taking Murderhobo two different ways. I see it, and I believe the OP intended it, as a humorous euphemism for someone whose secondary employment happens to involve bringing death to others, such as the aforementioned soldier.

Sczarni

The Beard wrote:
GMs aren't supposed to prevent people from utilizing PFS legal options, are they?

And where, pray tell, do you see "Profession (Murderhobo)" as a legal option?

Please. I'll wait all day long to hear this one.

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