| Joyd |
I may be able to expand this out further later, but my impressions where this:
- Even when it would have been relevant to do so, it felt hard to justify spending one of just three uses of Animal Focus on a temporary skill bonus. Even if it's not technically true, it felt more correct to use them in combat. (I was at exactly the level where you get to pick two at once.)
- There was some hesitation regarding how the Animal Focus buffs would interact when applied to skills that take more than one minute to fully execute. We ruled it the generous way, but there might be a more technically correct ruling, since it's not like buffs running out in the middle of something is unique to this class.
- I had forgotten how imposing it is to prep spells for a class that knows its whole list. Presumably this would be less of a big deal if I had started from level one and gotten familiar with what's available slowly over time. I'm not suggesting that this necessarily change, but it makes the character feel exceptionally spellcastery.
- Speaking of feeling exceptionally spellcastery, the spells kind of overwhelm everything else the class is doing. I'm not sure if that's intentional. Being able to use Animal Focus three times a day kind of gets lost in the shuffle when you can do equally high-impact spell stuff twelve times a day.
- Trying to figure out when you're flanking when you're holding a reach weapon and your flank buddy is five feet off of the ground is pretty weird, but that's an artifact of my weird combination of choices, and not the class's fault.
- I definitely felt a lot like a cut-rate druid. Having +2 to attack when I was flanking (with my bird buddy, who also gets the bonus) and the ability to give myself little combat bonuses three times a day does not feel like it compensates for what you're giving up. I know that the druid class is probably "too good", but I think hunters need something to ever recommend them over druids.
EDIT 1:
- I threw the character together without thinking everything through, and didn't think about the fact that using a Str-based combat style with a Dex-based animal companion is kind of a nonbo, given how Animal Focus works. I liked the idea of a bird because I thought it would be very easy to flank with it (for the Teamwork feats), and it was, but then I went and gave it weapon finesse. A Roc would have been way better, plus it could have carried me (not in combat).
| Joyd |
I think it depends. The fact that the abilities are activated as Swift Actions makes it tempting to save them for combat, and use regular magic as an alternative where possible, since outside of combat the fact that regular magic takes a standard action to use makes less of a difference. For example, if I needed to swim across some rough water (to make up a simple example), I could use either the Animal Focus bonus to swim checks or I could use Summon Nature's Ally II. (Which lasts slightly less time, but the Squid is faster than me; I'm assume that most GMs would rule that the squid, with its mighty swim speed and its 15 Strength, could at least drag me.) The squid is probably more reliable, and the fact that it takes a turn to summon probably doesn't matter (unless I'm actively already drowning and might not get the spell off.) In combat, I could also use either Animal Focus or Summon Nature's Ally II if I need a boost, but Animal Focus is a swift action, which makes it basically free for the class.
I would definitely use the Animal Focus boost for a skill boost if I felt my life (or somebody's life) depended on it either way, regardless of how big they were, so I don't know if it's the size that's making the difference.
| mplindustries |
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I can't see ever using Animal Focus for skills unless it was basically a automatic success.
For example, why would I get a bonus to Swim when I have access to a level 1 spell that can let me get a swim speed (touch of the sea)?
For that matter, why would I play a Hunter over a Druid and trade the ability to Wildshape into flying, climbing, swimming creatures for hours at a time for the ability to get a very short duration skill bonus?
| Joyd |
To be fair, unless I KNOW I'm going to be swimming, the odds of me ever preparing Touch of the Sea is basically nil, so it'd be up to me bothering to have a scroll. The swim bonus Animal Focus is always available and always an option. I used Summon Nature's Ally II as the comparison because that's a spell that's actually reasonable to ever prepare. The animal focus bonus doesn't need to be better than the most perfect possible spell for the job if that spell is something nobody ever prepares, but it might be good if it's better than what's available through powerful, flexible spells like SNA.
| Rogue Eidolon |
Your analysis gave me an idea--what if Animal Focus lasted for an hour if you spend one full round (like a summon spell) and one minute as a swift action. The idea in-world is you spend more time focusing on your connection to animals for a longer connection. Gamist perspective, this makes it attractive for long out-of-combat situations while also having better action economy in combat for brief uses just to get through the fight.
| mplindustries |
To be fair, unless I KNOW I'm going to be swimming, the odds of me ever preparing Touch of the Sea is basically nil, so it'd be up to me bothering to have a scroll.
I have literally never filled all of my spell slots in the morning as a prepared caster. I always leave at least one, usually two (once I have a bunch) open for later. Then I'm just 15 minutes from the utility spell I need.
| Joyd |
Joyd wrote:To be fair, unless I KNOW I'm going to be swimming, the odds of me ever preparing Touch of the Sea is basically nil, so it'd be up to me bothering to have a scroll.I have literally never filled all of my spell slots in the morning as a prepared caster. I always leave at least, usually two (once I have a bunch) open for later. Then I'm just 15 minutes from the utility spell I need.
Absolutely the same, but there's many instances where you need to swim where one round is an acceptable delay, but fifteen minutes without distraction isn't in the cards. For lots of druid utility spells (like Animal Messenger, Speak with Plants, whatever) there's often not any real time crunch, but the specific physical challenges that Animal Focus addresses have that property less of the time. My perspective here is perhaps a bit warped in that the last two times swimming was a real issue for a character I was playing, it's because he got - somewhat unexpectedly - knocked off of a boat, although you could make an argument that I should have seen the second one coming ;). I'm sure there's plenty of circumstances where time's no big deal for swimming, however, and that's certainly a good use case for Touch of the Sea.