Hello everyone, i'm building a fighter with cestus and heavy armor and i really could use some advice for a non-optimized campaign (so no need to go crazy over sub-optimal choices i made).
A little note: my GM counts attack with cestus as "armed unarmed strikes", so everything you can do with unarmed strikes you can do with the weapon.
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Race: Human
Stats (25 point-buy)
- if going with Boar Style
Str:16+2
Dex:15
Con:15
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:7
- if going with Crane Style
Str:16+2
Dex:15
Con:15
Int:8
Wis:14
Cha:8
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He would go as Monk (Master of Many Styles/Monk of the Sacred Mountain) for the first two levels, then switch to Fighter (Brawler)...
His first ability score increase should go on dexterity to pump up his number of AoO with combat reflexes.
His Skill points should go mostly on Acrobatics(for Dragon Style and Snake Style) and Sense Motive(For Snake Style). Maybe Intimidate (for Boar Style).
Doesn't matter if he loses his Wisdom and Dexterity bonus to AC wearing heavy armor (actually my GM strips us of our equipment every now and then and also seems to love night attacks, so they will come in handy).
He will always take HP as a favored class option (fighter).
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Feats:
1- Dodge(Character)
1- Two-Weapon Fighting(Bonus Human)
1- Stunning Fist(Bonus Monk)
1- Toughness(Bonus MotSM)
1- Snake Style(Bonus MoMS, ignore prerequisites)
2- Snake Fang(Bonus MoMS, ignore prerequisites)
3- Weapon Focus(Character)
3- Combat Reflexes(Bonus Fighter)
4- Dragon Style(Bonus Fighter)
5- Dragon Ferocity (Character)
6- Weapon Specialization (Bonus Fighter)
7- Combat Style Master (Character)
8- Boar Style/Crane Style (Bonus Fighter)
9- Boar Ferocity/Crane Wing (Character)
10- Greater Weapon Focus (Bonus Fighter)
11- Boar Shred/Crane Riposte (Character)
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At level 3 he basically enters Snake style (swift action) in the first round and takes advantage of his 21+ AC (+9 armor, +1 dex, +1 natural armor, +# magic) to get as many AoO as possible from enemy misses with snake fang (which turns every attack he avoids in an AoO). After the first round he uses snake style to try and get a little more AC every now and then with a Sense Motive Check or turning the first AoO that hits into a second attack (both immediate actions).
Up to level 6 he enters the Dragon stance in the second round, maintaining the Snake stance (MoMS) and adding damage from the style and bonus to hit and damage from Brawler. From third round he goes as before.
At level 7 he can enter the Snake stance as combat starts and Dragon stance as a free action, so he can use Snake Style to get an improved AC or a bonus attack from first round. Plus, as a brawler, he gets menacing stance, which increases his chance of avoiding attacks and get more AoO with Snake Fang.
Plus, at 9 he gets an attack of opportunity every time an enemy within reach makes a 5-foot step or a withdraw action. So enemies will be provoke AoO both if they attack and miss and if they try to run.
Now i have two option and i'm not sure which would be better:
1) He could go with Boar Style. At level 11, then, he enters Snake stance at the start of the fight just in case he can get some AoO. In his round switches to Boar and Dragon as free actions and uses the expanded damage of both styles (and his free intimidate check if he gets one). At the end of his turn he maintains Dragon and switches back to Snake to get some more AoO with improved damage against enemies miss. Then repeats.
2) He could go with Crane Style. At level 11, then, he enters Snake stance at the start of the fight just in case he can get some AoO. In his round switches to Crane and Dragon as free actions and uses the expanded damage of Dragon and improves is AC fighting defensively. At the end of his turn he maintains Crane and switches back to Snake to get an automatic AoO with Crane Riposte against first enemy attack, an improved AC with Snake Style against the second (and possibly another AoO) and an overall better AC against everything else for more AoO (which includes a bonus attack with snake fang if he doesn't use his immediate action). Then repeats.
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Is it better going with Boar or Crane?
Should i take Dodge at first level even if i go with Boar or something else, like Intimidating Prowess, would be better?
Should i continue on the TWF chain starting from level 12?
If going with Boar, i was thinking of taking a level in Rogue (Thug) to get Frithening, is it worth it?
Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Dotting this, trying to put together a similar build and curious about the feedback.
Nice suggestions XMorsX.
It's a shame having to take double slice as a usless prerequisite feat since "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes."
Also, what are the pros of taking Cornugon Smash insted of completing the boar style chain which gives you another +2 to intimidate and 1d6 bleed damage per round aside than saving a feat?
My view on such a character:
Human Brawler 19 / Master of Many Styles 1
STR 18
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 81 Brawler TWF, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Cestus
2 Brawler Combat Reflexes
3 MoMS Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity, Stunning Fist, IUS
4 Brawler
5 Brawler Boar Style, Weapon Specialization: Cestus
6 Brawler
7 Brawler Cornugon Smash, Intimidating Prowess
8 Brawler
9 Brawler Greater Weapon Focus: Cestus, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10 Brawler
11 Brawler Double Slice, Improved Critical
12 Brawler
13 Brawler Two-Weapon Rend, Dazing Assault
14 Brawler Stand Still
15 Brawler Greater Weapon Specialization: Cestus, Critical Focus
16 Brawler
17 Brawler Critical Versatility, Staggering Critical
18 Brawler
19 Brawler Critical Mastery, Stunning Critical
20 Brawler
You don't need double slice. I was building a similar character and found that the ius of the monk gives the full damage, it's not in the flurry of blows. That should save you a full feat.
I believe that Double Slice is a prereq for Two-Weapon Rend.
I believe that Double Slice is a prereq for Two-Weapon Rend.
That makes sense
*stupid feat tax... grumble grumble*
Action economy and efficiency are the reasons that cornugon smash makes the other boar style feats obsolete. With cornugon smash you can intimidate as a free action every time you power attack (meaning almost any time you attack). It is way better than the situational intimidate of the boar ferocity and completely triumphs boar shred. The bonus damage that these feats provide is just not enough to justify the fat tax either.
An alternative instead of Double Slice and Two-Weapon Rend could be Furious Finish and Dreadful Carnage.
I don't think is Boar Ferocity is so situational, since, as a fighter with TWF you should be able to pull at least two hits per round, but with a power attack build changes everything. You have a point over Boar shred, though...
And why not taking two levels of monk? isn't it worthy delaying your fighter class abilities for another level in exchange for +1 to your weak saves, free toughness and +1 natural armor (if you go with Monk of the Sacred Mountain)?
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P.S. Now that i notice, i made a mistake in my first post, i should have put IUS (which i totally forgot) as a bonus feat at first level and Toughness (which i put at first level) as a bonus feat at second level.
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Hello everyone, i'm building a fighter with cestus and heavy armor and i really could use some advice for a non-optimized campaign (so no need to go crazy over sub-optimal choices i made). A little note: my GM counts attack with cestus as "armed unarmed strikes", so everything you can do with unarmed strikes you can do with the weapon.Oh, boy. Wow. I'm going to show why that was recently changed to no longer stack in PFS. ...nah, I'll just tell you: stacking Amulet of Mighty Fists with magical enhancements on your cestus. (Pre-change, I had a min/maxed samurai who dip urban barbarian for a raging dexterity of 26 at 5th level; he had an AoMF[Agile] and +1/Keen cestus (because those things totally will do piercing damage and therefore qualify for that enhancement). On top of that was the other dip into fighter [unarmed] to pick up Dragon Style without meeting normal prerequisites. Holy smokes could he do a lot of damage. (And that's not counting his horse and wakizashis, because he totally TWF'd.)
Race: Human
Stats (25 point-buy)
- if going with Boar Style
Str:16+2
Dex:15
Con:15
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:7
You have three odd-numbered stats and none of them are your prime stat (which implies you won't be advancing the one you dropped the most points into, which is grossly inefficient).
Good 25pt arrays are....
MAD: 15,14,14,14,13,10 ...ideal for humans and other +2/- races who don't want a dump stat and for whom one attribute needs to be a 13 for feat prerequisites but is otherwise unimportant.
Moderate min/mix: 16,15,14,14,12,07 with the 15 in the racial bump stat (for a 17), with the 16 in the second-most important.
Heavier min/max: 17,16,12,12,12,07 or 17,16,14,14,07,07
With the latter array into your fighter, you'd get:
STR+19
DEX:12*
CON:16
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:07
= = = = =
*Your build specified heavy armor, yet I'm seeing a lot of extra build point devoted to raising dexterity to 15, a score which will be immediately severely underutilized as soon as you strap on full-plate.
= = = = =
25pt min/maxed for dex:
STR:07
DEX+19 (all bumps)
CON:16
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:12
traits: Dangerously Curious (UMD class), Quain Martial Artist (US+1 damage)
Important feats: Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, TWF
Important equipment: Agile AoMF, +1/Keen cestus[/i] (2), +1/Brawling haramaki, Gloves of Dueling, wand of [i]Mage Armor
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By a haversack or a pack-mule, or hire a porter. (Once you free yourself of heavy armor, you really don't need much strength to wrangle your crap.) Otherwise, switch INT and STR around.
Anti-magic? *shrug* You're not going to run into that until way high, and by then your repertoire of tricks will have expanded greatly (i.e., Agile Maneuvers, etc -- it's not all about damage).
You have three odd-numbered stats and none of them are your prime stat (which implies you won't be advancing the one you dropped the most points into, which is grossly inefficient).
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*Your build specified heavy armor, yet I'm seeing a lot of extra build point devoted to raising dexterity to 15, a score which will be immediately severely...
Thanks for your suggestions, but Dex pumped up is also needed if i focus my build on AoO (which can go up to 4 per round with combat reflexes and the 4th level stat increase) and two-weapon fighting; it's not just about the AC... If i want to TWF, i need at least 15 on Dex wether i use its bonus on AC or not (wearing heavy armor)... Not speaking about continuing on that feat chain. Con could go down a little to avoid the odd level and not needing to spend an increase on it later on, that's for sure...
But i'll definitely talk to my GM about stacking Weapon Enhancement and AoMF Enhancement.
Unless you're playing a "Come and Get Me" barbarian, I have a hard time seeing you getting a lot of AoOs without a polearm + Enlarged gimmick.
With snake style i get an AoO every time my enemy misses an attack (and i can use a sense motive check instead of my AC or touch AC for one attack/round), and with brawler at level 9 enemies will provoke even if they try to get out from my threatened area with 5-foot step or withdraw action. Also brawler has menacing stance wich gives penalties to attack (and concentration), so increased chances to avoid hits and land AoO.
So AoO wether you try to hit and fail or to run.
Now if there is a way to get an AoO every time you get hit, that would be jackpot...