Crunchy Frog


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Does the Augment Summoning feat affect the rain of frogs spell (and thus, among other things, increase the DC of the frogs' poison)? It says it functions just like the summon swarm spell, which it seems would be affected, and given that, it would be a shame if it was weaker than it ought to be just because its name was different.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Does the Augment Summoning feat affect the rain of frogs spell (and thus, among other things, increase the DC of the frogs' poison)? It says it functions just like the summon swarm spell, which it seems would be affected, and given that, it would be a shame if it was weaker than it ought to be just because its name was different.

Augment Summoning say:

"Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it."

Rain of Frogs is:

"Rain of Frogs
School conjuration (summoning); Level bard 3, druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3, witch 3

EFFECT
Effect one swarm of poisonous frogs

DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as summon swarm, except you summon a swarm of poisonous frogs. This swarm has the statistics of a centipede swarm, except it has the animal type and its poison deals Constitution damage instead of Dexterity damage."

So, I say yes, it works.

Scarab Sages

Cool, that's at least one vote. Anyone else?


Looking at it, it should boost the DC of the poison, but DC 15 for a level 3 swarm aint much.


I'm very sure that RAW does support letting Augment summoning affect the rain of frogs.
But I'm with Williamoak when he says that it isn't a strong option.


The average L5 PC will have saves around 5. 15 DC should be more than fair. I would think the feat and the spell would stack.


It depends on if a "Swarm" constitutes a "Creature". Does Augment Summoning work on Summon Swarm?

I don't think it should work. You might technically be improving the abilities of the individual creatures making up the swarm, but that doesn't really impact the swarm itself all that much.

Swarm Creature Type wrote:
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind.

I could be wrong, this is the first time I've thought about it. But I'm assuming Augment Summoning would be an effect that a Swarm would be immune to.


It works.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

What is the swarm made of, if not a collection of creatures? Augment Summoning says each creature that you summon gets the benefit, therefore it makes sense that the swarm statistics would be improved.


And the swarm is itself treated as a creature. The feat works in both cases.


Augment Summoning doesn't "target" anything. It merely "affects". If you had a hypothetical spell that affected the "target summoned creature" or "up to X target summoned creatures", then it wouldn't work. However, if this hypothetical spell affected "all summoned creatures in an area", it would still affect the swarm so long as it all fit in the area. Augment Summoning, however, is a feat that modifies the actual act of the summoning so it doesn't fall under the "target" restriction.


Kazaan wrote:
Augment Summoning doesn't "target" anything. It merely "affects". If you had a hypothetical spell that affected the "target summoned creature" or "up to X target summoned creatures", then it wouldn't work. However, if this hypothetical spell affected "all summoned creatures in an area", it would still affect the swarm so long as it all fit in the area. Augment Summoning, however, is a feat that modifies the actual act of the summoning so it doesn't fall under the "target" restriction.

*shrug*

That's fair.


This is an example of good discussion. Fretgod99 raised some fair points about the wording, because we are all about the RAW in here. And Kazaan showed us that even with those points raised about the wording there wasn't anything stopping it from working under RAW. At least not the stuff that has already been asked about.

Even if RAW had said differently I would have ruled for it working on the specific spell of rain of frogs, because I don't see it as gamebreaking. :D

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Crunchy Frog eh? Thought this was a Monty Python chocolate discussion!

Scarab Sages

Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Crunchy Frog eh? Thought this was a Monty Python chocolate discussion!

Well, it's a good way to get attention on a nerd forum, innit?

My father always said I could do well in marketing - which is kind of like the Hogwarts Sorting Hat telling someone they'd do well in Slytherin.

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