Paying for official rulings


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An idea occurred to me that I wanted to sound out with this community. How many people here would be willing to pay money to encourage Paizo to release an official ruling on a specific question?

For example. I would like to know how many different spell effects could be identified in one round using detect magic. Let's say I cast detect magic in a room with 100 auras. If I made my checks, would I know the school of every single aura in the room on that third round or would it take me some time. I don't know if this question has been addressed yet or not, but let's assume it hasn't been officially answered.

I put this question out there and offer 5 dollars for an official ruling, and twenty other people also pledge 5 dollars, putting a 100 dollar bounty on the question. The money would go to Paizo once they officially decide one way or the other.

How many people here would like to be able to choose questions and pledge money towards an official answer?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

EDIT: on a more serious note, I've heard if you want to entice the PDT into answering your pet question, you must lure them in such a way that will leave you forever scarred—most of which involves the liberal application of very expensive alcohol.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Absolutely ridiculous. It is bad enough seeing the reaction of people when a ruling they don't like is made at no cost in the free time of someone on the development team... if such a reaction were intensified by having paid money to get the ruling they don't like, I expect it would be so bad as to completely shut down the entire FAQ and errata system - considering that caustic poster have already basically driven certain Paizo employees to decreased message board participation and provoked the implementation of the "mask" account now used to handle things posters might flip out about.


Ambiguity is sometimes better. See the FAQ on free actions.


What.

Grand Lodge

I have a counter-proposal: Add a "Do not FAQ" button that reduces the number of FAQ hits by one per forum member who clicks it. I suppose it would be fair to disable it when a post has one FAQ click.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, I know I wouldn't contribute. Because I don't care how clear the rules are, I will continue altering rules to make the game more fun for my players. I couldn't care less how Jason Bulhman wants me to run my games. I do care about what my players enjoy, and a statement from the PDT doesn't change that.


blahpers wrote:
What.

I assume you understood the thread, so presuming incredulity: Yes, the OP really does appear to be serious about this.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

At best, this will probably make a great number of people extremely angry and lead to a boycott by many of these boards and of Pathfinder. At worst, it could lead to a complete crash of the boards by people unhappy with rulings they paid for and disagree with and the loss of the FAQ system entirely. I tend to think it would end more in one of the latter options more than the former.

Personally, I'd rather have faith that the PDT can address the issues that are really necessary to address, even if it takes them some time. The fact that it takes them time is overshadowed by the fact that they're doing it at all, and that they're willing to engage in discussion with us on the boards.

I don't agree with every ruling they make, and I don't always take Dev rulings as gospel, but I do appreciate that they take their personal time to do this. Paying them for rulings feels to me like it would cheapen the ruling.


GMiller939 wrote:

The question was: who would pay for this? So far no one has answered my question. So what if people get upset, and too f&##ing bad for them. If people start crying about it, how will that impede the adults from using this service.

> Ambiguity is sometimes better

I would like to suggest you haven't spent 4 hours debating a ridiculous question, although I wouldn't bet on it. I recently spent half a session trying to determine the difference between commas, and the word 'and'. The DM noticed some animals natural attacks are separated by commas, and some were separated by the word 'and'. See Lion and Bulette. He was under the impression that when the word 'and' was used, the animal could make both attacks as a standard action. Later we found a FAQ ruling countering his arguement, but the time is still gone forever.

The answer is that no one wants to pay for a "service" that they believe will cause massive amounts of anger and nothing productive.


No, it sounds like it would just encourage them to write up s*+& rules to begin with so they could rake in the dough on "bounties".


Not me..Most of the times I dont FAQ something so I can be told how it is run. I just like to know the intent. If I like how it is supposed to run I will just ignore it anyway. Well not every time, but sometimes. Most of us can figure out the rules well enough anyway. We just dont have a tag by our name that makes us officially represent Paizo.


GMiller939 wrote:
So far no one has answered my question.

I answered your question in the first sentence of my response. I then explained my answer.

Shadow Lodge

Saying that nobody has answered your question doesn't mean nobody has. Several of us have, even if we were a bit abstract in doing so. It's not a difficult jump to assume that somebody who says "this is a bad idea" is answering your question with a tacet "no."

My position stated in one very small word: No.

And for what it's worth, this is in entirely the wrong forum. This isn't a Rules Question. It should probably be in General Discussion.


Or possibly Paizo Products.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

The answer is no.

It would create more problems than it would solve. See a few forums created about some of the FAQ posts. Also it would slow down production of product. Time put towards creating official calls is time away from working on product. Lastly, this system, as rules heavy as it is, is still built with a level of flexibility assumed and holes in the rules can be filled by GMs. In fact it is my opinion that great GMs don't need a developer's call to fill those holes.

I am willing to pay them for rules of areas not already covered, but they seem to be thinking of things months before me.


GMiller939 wrote:
If people start crying about it, how will that impede the adults from using this service.

To answer that, allow me to tell you a story of my youth.

In my home town there was this little place, just the one, where teens could go hang out, play some video games, pool, or foos ball, watch a movie, dance - basically a social club that let kids get out of their own house and yet still stay out of trouble.

One kid decided to leave the club after his parent dropped him off, find a way to get drunk despite being underage, and then came back to the club. Because enough complaints where made about this event, it didn't matter how many parents were being reasonable about it or how many kids had not behaved poorly - the club was shut down.

It took a couple years before the club managed to re-open, and a new rule was instated as well - if you leave, you can't come back until the next day - to prevent a repeat of the prior incident.

Then, one kid brought his grudge with him one night and decided to attack another kid. Again, complaints outweighed the desires of the parents wanting somewhere for their kids to go and hang out with some supervision (as opposed to just running about town unsupervised and finding what little entertainment they could - namely drugs, alcohol and sex) and the number of kids not using the club as a combat arena proved irrelevant - the club was shut down.

Another couple of years passed with supporters of the club working to get it reopened, but every attempt was met with only the memory of what had gone wrong (a total of 2 kids from the dozens that used the place) coloring the views of the decision makers and leading them to believe that the club was actually bad for the kids.

Moral of the Story: Even if it is coming from a minority, loud enough complaining and poor enough behavior really can ruin it for everyone else.


You asked how many people would support the idea. So far everyone is against it. How is that not answering your question? O.o


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you have a rules question, ask one of the game designers. You may or may not get an official ruling, but you probably will get the impression that they figure stuff out as they go and expect the people who buy their game to do the same.


GMiller939 wrote:
I would like to know how many different spell effects could be identified in one round using detect magic.

3 rounds per 1 item identified. This question was specifically answered at least three times in the Core Rulebook.


Oh, and on top of everything else?

If you and 20 other people each offered 5 dollars for one question, that would be a 105-dollar bounty, not 100.

Grand Lodge

The ethical ambiguity raised by this is enough reason not to do it.

No matter what the reality, they would be accused of going with the side that paid the most.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay, capitalism! Let's put a dollar-value on everything!

Shadow Lodge

Mapleswitch wrote:
GMiller939 wrote:
I would like to know how many different spell effects could be identified in one round using detect magic.
3 rounds per 1 item identified. This question was specifically answered at least three times in the Core Rulebook.

Not quite accurate.

Detect Magic wrote:

You detect magical auras. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.
2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.)

You can identify the strength and number of all detectable auras in range in 3 rounds. Identifying school or actual spell requires a separate skill check for each.


137ben wrote:
GMiller939 wrote:
So far no one has answered my question.
I answered your question in the first sentence of my response. I then explained my answer.

You replied while I was writing.


FLite wrote:

The ethical ambiguity raised by this is enough reason not to do it.

No matter what the reality, they would be accused of going with the side that paid the most.

Who said anything about having the opinions of the buyers. You lack imagination. Have a question posted and allow people to anonymously donate to the pool. How would Paizo guess which side paid more?


The day Paizo starts accepting payment for rulings on the mechanics of the game is the day I lose all faith in the company. It is also the day I stop buying Paizo's products. In other words, I think it's a terrible idea and I would NOT pay for oficial rulings.


*Determining which items are magical and which are not through the spell Detect magic takes 3 rounds.*

*Once you have determined a magical item is magical, it takes 3 rounds to identify each (1) item.*


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GMiller939 wrote:
An idea occurred to me that I wanted to sound out with this community. How many people here would be willing to pay money to encourage Paizo to release an official ruling on a specific question?

I'd be happy to pay more to give paizo more resources to devote to development. I don't really like your bounty idea though - I think the game will improve more rapidly if Paizo focus on the fixes they feel are important, not the fixes the richest of their fans think are important.


Steve Geddes wrote:
GMiller939 wrote:
An idea occurred to me that I wanted to sound out with this community. How many people here would be willing to pay money to encourage Paizo to release an official ruling on a specific question?
I'd be happy to pay more to give paizo more resources to devote to development. I don't really like your bounty idea though - I think the game will improve more rapidly if Paizo focus on the fixes they feel are important, not the fixes the richest of their fans think are important.

I think people would be more willing to pay when they see the effects of their contribution, rather then a possibly empty promise to do more work.


I fail to see what good this would do. They already answer the questions we put up. Apart from being bad taste i dont see any merit to the suggestion. I dont know the the answer to your question but if you make a normal FAQ you may get a reply.
So a clear NO from me if we get to vote here.


GMiller939 wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
GMiller939 wrote:
An idea occurred to me that I wanted to sound out with this community. How many people here would be willing to pay money to encourage Paizo to release an official ruling on a specific question?
I'd be happy to pay more to give paizo more resources to devote to development. I don't really like your bounty idea though - I think the game will improve more rapidly if Paizo focus on the fixes they feel are important, not the fixes the richest of their fans think are important.
I think people would be more willing to pay when they see the effects of their contribution, rather then a possibly empty promise to do more work.

Maybe. Like you, I don't care if people don't like my ideas. :)

The bounty system might get more subscribers, however I stand by my opinion that a consumer-led prioritisation will produce an inferior result than a developer-led one.

Shadow Lodge

Mapleswitch wrote:

*Determining which items are magical and which are not through the spell Detect magic takes 3 rounds.*

*Once you have determined a magical item is magical, it takes 3 rounds to identify each (1) item.*

Except his original question wasn't about identifying magical items, but identifying spell effects. Knowledge(arcana) check, and all can be made simultaneously. I digress, though. That discussion is tangential to the actual thread.

Shadow Lodge

GMiller939 wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
GMiller939 wrote:
An idea occurred to me that I wanted to sound out with this community. How many people here would be willing to pay money to encourage Paizo to release an official ruling on a specific question?
I'd be happy to pay more to give paizo more resources to devote to development. I don't really like your bounty idea though - I think the game will improve more rapidly if Paizo focus on the fixes they feel are important, not the fixes the richest of their fans think are important.
I think people would be more willing to pay when they see the effects of their contribution, rather then a possibly empty promise to do more work.

In theory, could be. But why would they pay for a service that is already offered for free? Questions are answered according to their validity and the necessity of their being addressed. And your system has no way of guaranteeing that the promise made is any more or less full than the one made for free, or that the question is answered any more rapidly than it would have been otherwise.

Sometimes it takes time to figure things out, so paying for it isn't going to speed it up any unless they turn around and use that money to pay a new team to interpret rules created by the design team, which will lead to yet more problems when the design team says one thing and the new faq team says something else.

As your idea stands, it's not a good one. Perhaps put some more thought into how such a system could be made to operate effeciently, and you might get less opposition.


I agree with jlighter and the others, paying for it to get results faster isnt the way to go. If anything, they would be encouraged to do quick rulings with little thought on it to get paid, while currently they can take the necessary time to discuss it withouth any pressure over them, which overall leads to rulings with more thought put on it.


Razh wrote:

I agree with jlighter and the others, paying for it to get results faster isnt the way to go. If anything, they would be encouraged to do quick rulings with little thought on it to get paid, while currently they can take the necessary time to discuss it withouth any pressure over them, which overall leads to rulings with more thought put on it.

I agree with this although I do think some of the ruling could have benefited from more time spent thinking it over like that free action debacle.


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I am already paying for official rulings from Paizo.

I call it "Core Rulebook".


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GMiller939 wrote:
I would like to suggest you haven't spent 4 hours debating a ridiculous question, although I wouldn't bet on it.

Suggestion: during a game, if you disagree with the GM's ruling, say what you think. If the GM disagrees, do it the GM's way. After the game, check the forums.

Sometimes you will use the wrong rule, but that's better than wasting four hours of game time arguing about something.


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Best part is... the idea seems to be that a) the PDT would start somehow working FASTER due to money for rulings, and b) the reasoning is that unclear rules could be avoided this way. First off, the PDT works as fast as it can already. Second, EVERY ruling will still interact with all other rules of the game, creating NEW unclear situations. Believing otherwise is hopelessly naive.

Or, for those who still think the question hasn't been answered:

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Any questions?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sissyl wrote:

Best part is... the idea seems to be that a) the PDT would start somehow working FASTER due to money for rulings, and b) the reasoning is that unclear rules could be avoided this way. First off, the PDT works as fast as it can already. Second, EVERY ruling will still interact with all other rules of the game, creating NEW unclear situations. Believing otherwise is hopelessly naive.

Or, for those who still think the question hasn't been answered:

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Any questions?

Does that no really mean "no" or do you mean I can should trying to argue the point no matter how eloquently you say "no"?

Maybe deep down inside you mean yes, but you don't know it yet. :)

<runs>

Liberty's Edge

I wouldn't pay. Especially as Paizo have in the past made a ruling and later ruled the other way (weapon bonuses applying to certain Combat Manoeuvres eg Trip), and how the latest FAQ for Ability Bonuses just made things much less clear for me in an area that I previously felt I knew (so in effect the FAQ ruling made things worse for me - can you imagine if I had paid for that!)

But what I would like to see is a page that lists the threads that have been flagged for FAQ and order it by number of FAQ - so we could at least see what the next FAQ should be.

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