So after reading over the magic item construction I've managed to extrapolate some information:
Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp(/5 for per day uses)
lvl 0 = 900(per-day:180)
lvl 1 = 1,800(per-day:360)
lvl 2 = 14,400(per-day:2880)
lvl 4 = 54,000(per-day:10800)
This mummified elf hand hangs by a golden chain around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). It allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will.
Faint transmutation; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, mage hand; Price 900 gp; Weight 2 lb.
So if you wanted to make an Necklace of "mage-armor" it would be 1,800 but the command word doesn't take a UMD check to activate.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
My question is can you make an unlimited use item or per-day use item using the spell trigger price "spell trigger: Spell level × caster level × 750 gp" and take the risk of a umd check or having to meet the caster requirements. Instead of using the Command word price?
http://paizo.com/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html
Not within the guidelines, no. The guidelines for that price are a 50 charge spell-trigger item. There isn't a way within the guidelines to finagle it so that a caster can get an unlimited or per-day spell cheaper than a non-caster would pay , probably because it'd be too powerful for the price.
So just how would that work?
A wand of Charm Person has 50 charges and costs 1 x 1 x 750 = 750gp. What you want to do is make a Wand of INFINITE Charm Person for 1 x 1 x 750 = 750gp.
If that were allowed, then NOBODY would ever make a charged wand if they could make INFINITE wands for the SAME price.
But, arguably, someone with Craft Wondrous Item could make a Stick of Infinite Charm Person that looks exactly like a wand and has infinite uses for 1 x 1 x 1,800 = 1,800gp, more than double the price. (No, it doesn't have to be a "stick", I just did that to compare apples to apples - it could, of course, be an amulet or a pair of boots or a rock or whatever).
So, the answer, as blahpers said, is definitely "NO" - this should not be allowed and the rules as presented in the CRB definitely do not support this idea.
I found it
Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.
Prices presented in the magic item descriptions (the gold piece value following the item's slot) are the market value, which is generally twice what it costs the creator to make the item.
Since different classes get access to certain spells at different levels, the prices for two characters to make the same item might actually be different. An item is only worth two times what the caster of the lowest possible level can make it for. Calculate the market price based on the lowest possible level caster, no matter who makes the item.
Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staves follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.
so its a 30% discount for adding class/skill restrictions
lvl 1 = 1,260(per-day:252)
But, arguably, someone with Craft Wondrous Item could make a Stick of Infinite Charm Person that looks exactly like a wand and has infinite uses for 1 x 1 x 1,800 = 1,800gp, more than double the price. (No, it doesn't have to be a "stick", I just did that to compare apples to apples - it could, of course, be an amulet or a pair of boots or a rock or whatever).
Stick of Infinite Charm Person on command use(fighter can use with out umd check)
1800Stick of Infinite Charm Person Requires Skill(works like wand with umd check of 20)
1620
Stick of Infinite Charm Person class/skill restrictions (umd check like casting from scroll 20 + caster level)
1,260
Is that legit?
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So if you wanted to make an Necklace of "mage-armor" it would be 1,800
Magic item creation is complex. You didn't read all the rules around it.
In general, if you go to the charts and numbers when creating an item. You jumped to the last rule.
The first rule is price similar. There is a similar item. Bracers of Armor. You can't make a magic item with the magic item creation rules that provides an AC bonus for less than other items that do the same thing.
The second rule is essentially price what it is worth. An item with use activated cure light is worth millions of gp.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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so its a 30% discount for adding class/skill restrictions
is legit?
You can't CREATED items with a discount for restrictions, but your GM could create items that he leaves as treasure for you using the discount.
No, nothing you have said in this thread is remotely legit. Please re-read the magic item creation rules (not the charts.)
So if you wanted to make an Necklace of "mage-armor" it would be 1,800Magic item creation is complex. You didn't read all the rules around it.
In general, if you go to the charts and numbers when creating an item. You jumped to the last rule.
The first rule is price similar. There is a similar item. Bracers of Armor. You can't make a magic item with the magic item creation rules that provides an AC bonus for less than other items that do the same thing.
Bracers of armor +4 = 16,000 gp
so this is true while it would cost more does it mean you can't create an item that would allow a person to cast mage armor or could you still make it and just give it a similar price?
Necklace Of Mage's Armor 14,000 - 18,000 gp?
While the bonus of +4 AC is similar the mechanics work differently (however for that price you can afford to make a whole lot of wands)
The second rule is essentially price what it is worth. An item with use activated cure light is worth millions of gp.
I understand why DM would never allow an unlimited heal item into a game. But you could resolve that with the "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)" so give it a cap of 5 per day?
But what about any number of other useful low level spells?
Shield, Mage Armor, Alarm, Grease, Speak with Animals, Lead Weapons?
All of these can be put on wands for the wand price (Spell level × caster level × 750 gp) but can you not make wondrous items that give the user the ability to cast these spells?
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Pricing New Items
The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.
It is here.
So if you wanted to make an Necklace of "mage-armor" it would be 1,800Magic item creation is complex. You didn't read all the rules around it.
In general, if you go to the charts and numbers when creating an item. You jumped to the last rule.
The first rule is price similar. There is a similar item. Bracers of Armor. You can't make a magic item with the magic item creation rules that provides an AC bonus for less than other items that do the same thing.
Bracers of armor +4 = 16,000 gp
so this is true while it would cost more does it mean you can't create an item that would allow a person to cast mage armor or could you still make it and just give it a similar price?
The guidelines state first and foremost that a new magic item should be compared to existing magic items and priced accordingly. A slotted magic item that provides a constant or practically constant mage armor effect should be priced similarly to bracers of armor +4 regardless of whether the item requires the bearer to be able to cast the spell. If the bearer can cast the spell, then they are better off acquiring a first-level pearl of power or runestone of power and either finding the spell, researching it, or acquiring a page of spell knowledge or ring of spell knowledge with the desired spell.
I understand why DM would never allow an unlimited heal item into a game. But you could resolve that with the "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)" so give it a cap of 5 per day?
A GM could allow that (mine does, I do sometimes), especially if the party has no daily healing capacity.
But what about any number of other useful low level spells?
Shield, Mage Armor, Alarm, Grease, Speak with Animals, Lead Weapons?
Again, it's the GM's privilege and responsibility (to borrow an excellent phrase from the design team) to decide what custom items a character can create. I would probably allow single use or once/day wondrous items that produced these effects; further uses I'd have to examine closely.
All of these can be put on wands for the wand price (Spell level × caster level × 750 gp) but can you not make wondrous items that give the user the ability to cast these spells?
If the GM agrees that you can make such an item, you can make such an item. The GM is advised to weigh the item against existing items and mechanics and decide what the effects of the item are worth.
so its a 30% discount for adding class/skill restrictions
lvl 1 = 1,260(per-day:252)Stick of Infinite Charm Person on command use(fighter can use with out umd check)
1800
Stick of Infinite Charm Person Requires Skill(works like wand with umd check of 20)
1620Stick of Infinite Charm Person class/skill restrictions (umd check like casting from scroll 20 + caster level)
1,260Is that legit
I would never allow such a thing.
I discussed the reasons why in this post.
In short, if everybody who makes magic items could make them cheaper and faster AND less desirable for thieves to steal by simply putting these cheesy limitations on them (cheesy because they don't IN ANY WAY limit the guy who makes the item), then EVERYBODY would do it. All the time. Every time. Every item.
These kinds of limitations are really only for GM use, such as when a shaman of a tribe of coastal dwarves makes a bunch of amulets of water breathing so the tribe can visit an underwater temple of their sea-god. Those amulets might all be made as "Dwarf-only" and "Worshipper of the sea-god only" and therefore could be made at a discount and would certainly be sold at a discount since pretty much nobody else in the world really wants to buy them anyway.
But what about any number of other useful low level spells?
Shield, Mage Armor, Alarm, Grease, Speak with Animals, Lead Weapons?All of these can be put on wands for the wand price (Spell level × caster level × 750 gp) but can you not make wondrous items that give the user the ability to cast these spells?
You could.
As others have said, find comparable items and use that for the pricing. Any item that gives you essentially a permanent +4 AC (Shield, Mage Armor) should be priced like armor - even if the user has to use a standard action every fight, or right before every fight, to activate the power. Any item that gives you essentially a permanent +to hit or +damage (Lead Blades) should be priced like weapons.
Other items might have similar items in the CRB or UE or elsewhere. If so, use the similar item as a price guide. If not, then the charts could be useful: CL x SL x 1800 (or 2000), maybe divide by charges per day if desired (5 daily charges is the same price as unlimited).
Ultimately, PFS does not allow any item crafting like this and the CRB says every PC-crafted item must have GM's approval, so make sure as a player that you talk this over with your GM, or as a GM, that you evaluate the impact these items will have on the campaign and either disallow them or make sure they're priced fairly to limit the PC access to them (or at least make them give up enough cash that they will have to choose these items instead of other useful items, making it a choice they make rather than an automatic abuse of spellcasting rules).
It so happens I am the DM in AngryOrc's campaign, and for me it comes down to what the spell in question is. I don't particularly think there is anything game breaking about an at-will Unseen Servant, but I completely agree that infinite cure light wounds would be worth millions.
Especially considering you could essentially cure every person of nearly every illness anywhere in the world, you could set up shop in Magnimar and let the donations flood in!
In the end, I just want to make sure we are gauging the cost and difficulty in making these things accurately.
Whoops! Looks like the jig's up, AngryOrc - your GM discovered your sneaky plot to undermine his campaign. He's onto you. Better skip town and lie low til the hoo-hah blows over...
I understand why DM would never allow an unlimited heal item into a game. But you could resolve that with the "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)" so give it a cap of 5 per day?
But what about any number of other useful low level spells?
Shield, Mage Armor, Alarm, Grease, Speak with Animals, Lead Weapons?
Frankly, 5/day use of 1 minute spells (CL 1 shield, grease, speak with animals, lead weapons) for 1800gp is not an issue (at GM discretion of course). Mage armor is a bit different, and the starting point would be 16000. 5/day at CL 1? That might be worth a 50% drop, perhaps. 5/day at CL 5 (theoretically all day, theoretically 9000gp) should probably be at least 15000.
DM_Blake is right - if it's too good, it should cost more. As players, better to stick to standard items, custom combinations of standard items, or items that do things that standard items don't do. Replicating effects of standard items in different ways is a bad idea. Leave that to the GMs.
Whoops! Looks like the jig's up, AngryOrc - your GM discovered your sneaky plot to undermine his campaign. He's onto you. Better skip town and lie low til the hoo-hah blows over...
Lol I asked him all these questions first so no worry I would never try to pull a fast one besides the gm can always be like "oh so sorry my friend that item you just spent all your moneys on got stolen."
Pathfinder is deep and it's rules are complex I'm trying to get a reasonable Idea of what type of magic you could find and what the pricing would be:
Stick of Infinite Charm Person = 56,000 gp-ish
Aura moderate enchantment; CL 7th
Slot eyes; Price 56,000 gp for a pair; Weight —
DESCRIPTION
These two crystal lenses fit over the user's eyes. The wearer is able to use charm person (one target per round) merely by meeting a target's gaze. Those failing a DC 16 Will save are charmed as per the spell. Both lenses must be worn for the magic item to take effect.
However is the pricing the same for wands then?
You can create magic wands.
Prerequisite: Caster level 5th.
Benefit: You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know. Crafting a wand takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. To craft a wand, you must use up raw materials costing half of this base price. A newly created wand has 50 charges.
See magic item creation rules for more information.
Wand of charm person x50: 750gp
Also would a wand of mage armor be more like 16000 for 50 charges?
if a Wand of Mage Armor x50 is only 750 it seems like this would be the way to go until you hit higher levels you get the armor for an hour +4 ac
Eyes of Charming are extra b/c they use the DC of a 4th level spell (i.e. charm monster, or heightened(x3) charm person). 7x4x2000 = 56000. Frankly, a DC 11 at will charm person would almost be laughable - well over half the people you try to use it on (even L.1 commoners) would be trying to jump you almost immediately.
Wands have prescribed costs, and are charged based. Anything with charges has built-in limitations that don't need so much adjusting for.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Stick of Infinite Charm Person = 56,000 gp-ish
Wand of charm person x50: 750gp
Also would a wand of mage armor be more like 16000 for 50 charges?
Eyes of Charming is a slot item, a stick (slotless) would cost 112,000 gp.
Wand of 1st level spell (Charm Person, Mage Armor, etc) would be 750 gp for 50 charges. Wands require UMD or a class with the spell on their spell list.
Whoops! Looks like the jig's up, AngryOrc - your GM discovered your sneaky plot to undermine his campaign. He's onto you. Better skip town and lie low til the hoo-hah blows over...Lol I asked him all these questions first so no worry I would never try to pull a fast one besides the gm can always be like "oh so sorry my friend that item you just spent all your moneys on got stolen."
Nah, we both know I'd have it blow up and take a hand with it.
Stick of Infinite Charm Person = 56,000 gp-ish
Wand of charm person x50: 750gp
Also would a wand of mage armor be more like 16000 for 50 charges?
Eyes of Charming is a slot item, a stick (slotless) would cost 112,000 gp.
Wand of 1st level spell (Charm Person, Mage Armor, etc) would be 750 gp for 50 charges. Wands require UMD or a class with the spell on their spell list.
For that price of the infinite charm stick you could cast charm 7466 from wands
With a much lower DC, so it'd rarely work.
Right, it did seem like the higher caster level of the more expensive items was a major selling point.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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For that price of the infinite charm stick you could cast charm 7466 from wands
Items with things that don't run out costs more (3/day).
Unlimited use per day costs even more.Good DC costs even more.
Slotless costs double.
This all results in an item that is better in every way that should cost orders of magnitude more.