Question about AoO provoking AoO

[Javiash]

Well, as simple as that... If someone provokes an AoO by X action, and I use a trip maneuver without the improved trip feat. In theory that provokes an AoO, but is that character able to do it if he is the one that provoked it in the first place???

Not only with a trip maneuver, but also with a disarm, steal, and I don't know if there is anothoer maneuver you can do while doing an AoO.

[Wolfmang]

This....is a good question.

Gunslingers with Snap Shot can shoot on AoO without provoking.

Reloading does provoke though, so would reloading between Snap Shots with Combat Reflexes actually provoke? I don't know.

[fretgod99]

Yes. You can provoke an attack of opportunity while making an attack of opportunity. They resolve normally, meaning before the triggering action occurred (so it can get a bit confusing when you have chains of AoO).

[Partizanski]

There was a thread about this here once, but now way could I find it now. First, take 2 enemies with 18 dexterity and combat reflexes and neither with improved trip.

Enemy A tries to trip B, which provokes. B with his AoO, does a trip, which provokes from A. A does a trip with his AoO, which provokes etc.

What this causes is a stack of AoO that once someone runs out of AoO, begins resolving. You can think of it as a stack of papers, with A being Amber (only color I can think of that starts with A) and B being blue.

So you get this (each letter represents an attack waiting to happen, the number is the nth AoO):

A5
B5
A4
B4
A3
B3
A2
B2
A1
B1
A - this is the initial attack

So funnily enough, A gets to resolve his AoO first. From there, the first person to successfully trip gets a nice big bonus since the prone person is now at -4 to trip. Then the whole thing collapses if the standing person gets tripped as no ones AoO's are valid (since they are now all trips against prone people).

Best part, neither can take AoO's until their respective turns.

[blahpers]

Attacks of opportunity can provoke just like any other action. It's pretty simple, really.

[Abjurer]

One thing to remember about stacking AoO's though is that unarmed characters without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat do not threaten squares and thus don't get attacks of opportunity.

So, OP, in your example, if a non-proficient, unarmed enemy provokes an AoO from your weapon-wielding PC, your trip attack would not provoke an AoO back because he is not threatening you. Same applies for characters with reach - you can trip with no consequences against a character that can't reach you because they are not threatening your square.

Threatened Squares

[Cevah]

Was there some rule about not letting you take an AoO on your own turn?

While your trip provoked an AoO, the one whose action allowed your AoO would not be able to benefit if true, although others could benefit.

/cevah

[blahpers]

Cevah wrote:

Was there some rule about not letting you take an AoO on your own turn?

No, I don't think so. Unless someone has a link?

[mdt]

Simple starightforward flowchart.

1) Action Provokes Attack of Opportunity.
2) Resolve Attack of Opportunity before Provoking Action completes.
2A) If AoO provokes, start another flow at step 1.
2B) If AoO does not provoke, resolve AoO.
3) Resolve Provoking Action.
3A) If Provoking Party is still capable of taking action, they complete action.
3B) If Provoking Party cannot take original action, action is lost.

So, in the example of the trip, de trip, de trip...

Attacker A : Trip! (Invokes 1 Above)
Defender B : AoO! TRIP! (Invokes 2A, Then 1).
Attacker A : AoO! TRIP! (Invokes 2A, then 1).

Assume Attacker A successfully Trips B, B is now prone (with prone penalties). Once A's AoO is complete, Defender B now can attempt to complete their action (Trip!), but they now have prone penalties (-4 to hit). Once that is complete, Attacker A can not attempt to complete his original action, as you can't trip a prone target.

[kinevon]

blahpers wrote:

Cevah wrote:

Was there some rule about not letting you take an AoO on your own turn?

No, I don't think so. Unless someone has a link?

No, there is no rule against taking an AoO on your own turn. Otherwise, feats like Greater Trip would be less useful, or even provided.

[BigP4nda]

I have a question to add to this, Most threads about this question have involved using stacked Trip CMs as their example, personally I think having a trip contest in the midst of a dangerous battle is kind of stupid, ANYWAYS my question is this:

I have Snap Shot, but not Point-Blank Master (I can make AoOs without provoking AoOs, but I can't make a regular attack while threatened without provoking AoOs.)

Now, (I also have a katana for melee) I like to switch to my bow after a round of actions because I am more accurate and do more damage with one attack with the bow.

If I am engaged in melee and at the end of my round switch to my bow and somebody else runs past me, provoking an AoO from me, would my AoO provoke an AoO from the other guy that I'm threatening?

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

BigP4nda wrote:

Most threads about this question have involved using stacked Trip CMs as their example, personally I think having a trip contest in the midst of a dangerous battle is kind of stupid

I've seen the example given as two swashbuckling types both trying to disarm one another, where neither of them have Improved Disarm, so you get this recursive loop of Disarm attempts until someone runs out of AOOs, and then you start resolving them. The first person to actually Disarm the other effectively wins, because the next in the queue would be an unarmed individual trying to disarm with an AOO, when they probably no longer threaten.

What I like about this example is that thematically it "fits" much better with the genre, than the sill tripping match described above. We've all seen two swashbucklers doing some wild and crazy exchange in the flash of an eye, when one of them pops the others weapon out of their hands and the duel is over.

The obvious foil (no pun intended) to this ocurrence is for swashbuckling types to take improved disarm.

Caution: be careful who you disarm. There are a number of PFS modules where our Cleric of Calistria has disarmed a monster, only for us to now realize it is now taking 2 claw and 1 bite attack, with some crazy poison or other effect now in play. And you find yourself asking the GM what sort of action it would be for you to kneel down and politely hand the nice monster his weapon back.

[kinevon]

BigP4nda wrote:

I have a question to add to this, Most threads about this question have involved using stacked Trip CMs as their example, personally I think having a trip contest in the midst of a dangerous battle is kind of stupid, ANYWAYS my question is this:

I have Snap Shot, but not Point-Blank Master (I can make AoOs without provoking AoOs, but I can't make a regular attack while threatened without provoking AoOs.)

Now, (I also have a katana for melee) I like to switch to my bow after a round of actions because I am more accurate and do more damage with one attack with the bow.

If I am engaged in melee and at the end of my round switch to my bow and somebody else runs past me, provoking an AoO from me, would my AoO provoke an AoO from the other guy that I'm threatening?

No, because Snap Shot says that the AoO bow shot you get does not provoke.

Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.

Quote:

Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.