Thinking about making the following for PFS;
Half-Elf Magus 4 (Hexcrafter/Staff Magus) / Witch 8 (White Haired Witch/Bonded Witch)
Dump CHA, max INT, secondary in STR, with a little DEX, CON, and WIS
So with half elf, I get favored class benefits for both. Magus, at 4 levels in, gets me an extra arcane pool point... nothing amazing, but a benefit. Witch gets me an extra spell every level.
With a 4th level hexcrafter magus, I get one hex - more if I invest feat slots in the extra arcana feat. This makes up for the loss of hexes as a white haired witch.
As a staff magus, I can one-hand a quarterstaff, and even get weapon specialization with the quarterstaff. This could be my bonded item as a bonded witch. (would I select weapon, or staff?)
I can spellstrike with any curse descriptor spell I know (both from witch and magus casting), including the 0-level cantrip 'brand' if needed.
I would have the witch's white hair to fight with in addition to my staff; giving me reach (15' by 8th level) plus grapple, constrict, trip, pull, and strangle with the hair, and close fighting (plus spellstrike) with the staff. I could use the hair as a secondary attack on top of a full attack routine, as part of spell combat. Not super accurate with the -7 total; however it will rely on int to hit, so...
The spellcasting is complementary, with enough diversity and enough crossover...
I *know* this is not an optimized character. At least, not with what I have toyed around with so far. But it seems to me that it could hold its own weight in and out of combat, and have an interesting flavor.
What do you think? Would it work well? What could/should I do to make it 'better'?
Your to hit will be close to not there at all.
You might want to watch out for table variation. You appear to take the stance that the "Accursed Strike" ability allows you to use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with spells/hexes from your Witch class. There's a very good argument that this is not so.
That PC would probably be viable for PFS play, but definitely sub-optimal. Anything caster 4/8 will be weaker than anything caster 12. You'll be very weak in melee with a terrible BaB, despite the extra attack. Optimal witches never multi-class.
Depends on who you end up gaming with if there a bunch of it optimizers then you get shafted and moaned at
If you get a bunch who are so bothered about such things you'll do just fine sounds like a fun and interesting character go ahead fill your boots
I have thought about a WHW from time to time. I see it best as an AoO melee. Get Combat Reflexes and have a good Dex. With 15' hair reach, you have a huge AoO area you can control. Get your hair attack buffed with damage somehow, and you become a controller by AoO.
Biggest problem with the above is that you are 1/2 BAB.
/cevah
Captain Zoom wrote: You might want to watch out for table variation. You appear to take the stance that the "Accursed Strike" ability allows you to use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with spells/hexes from your Witch class. There's a very good argument that this is not so. "Accursed Strike (Sp): A hexcrafter magus who can cast bestow curse, major curse, or any spell with the curse descriptor can deliver these prepared spells using the spellstrike ability, even if the spells are not touch attack spells."
It makes no mention of being prepared via magus spell slots. Only 'prepared'; which a witch prepares spells, and is not spontaneous. There has been official clarification in the past that the standard spellstrike works with spells from any class, as long as they appear on the magus' spell list. While unrelated, it lends further credence to the functioning of accursed strike. How, in any way, could that be interpreted as only functioning for/with the magus' class spells?
Magda Luckbender wrote: That PC would probably be viable for PFS play, but definitely sub-optimal. Anything caster 4/8 will be weaker than anything caster 12. You'll be very weak in melee with a terrible BaB, despite the extra attack. Optimal witches never multi-class. I agree it is sub optimal. I am hoping to optimize it to a standard power level with feats, spell selection, etc. With INT to hit with my hair, and determining spell DCs and bonus spells, primary INT would be feasible. With a secondary STR for the magus' attacks with the staff, it will be weak, but not unable to hit. (At 12th the BAB will be +7; slightly better than 1/2 - adding in magic weapon, weapon focus, etc., it is still weak, but I hope playable).
Essentially, I am trading in 4 levels of witch spellcasting to gain back a few hexes, an extra point of BAB, some shuffled around saving throws, and spellstrike/spell combat. I am not looking to make an 'optimal witch' - I am trying to put flavor first, and then optimize within that.
Cevah wrote: I have thought about a WHW from time to time. I see it best as an AoO melee. Get Combat Reflexes and have a good Dex. With 15' hair reach, you have a huge AoO area you can control. Get your hair attack buffed with damage somehow, and you become a controller by AoO.
Biggest problem with the above is that you are 1/2 BAB.
/cevah
Not a bad idea, thanks!
At Level 12 with 7 BAB and str as secondary, with -2 for spell combat, you'll be lucky to hit a standing pottery.
The last scenario I ran. The end boss fight was AC 27 with DR10. At level 10 plus this is average. So unless you can hit that kind of ac at level 10. Reliable and with enough damage, or have a way to buy pass DR.
You might want to go over your idea. When looking at a monster with a CR of your level +3 and find out how you would react to them. As most boss fights are CR +3-4 depending on what season your in. There is a possibility with in season 4, and 5 that you could encounter a CR +5 in tire as a boss fight. Scenario 10-11 (10.5+1 for number of players = Player APL 11.5) You can have a hard encounter at +3. So if your level 10 you could encounter a CR 14. If season 5 is any thing like season 4 and it's shaping up to be like it. There are going to be tough scenarios out there.
Dekalinder wrote: At Level 12 with 7 BAB and str as secondary, with -2 for spell combat, you'll be lucky to hit a standing pottery. A secondary stat is, in my experience, only 1-2 points (speaking of the bonus) behind a primary...so 3-4 points of total difference (9BAB vs 7BAB, plus a point or 2 for STR) means "you'll be lucky to hit a standing pottery"...?
calagnar wrote: The last scenario I ran. The end boss fight was AC 27 with DR10. At level 10 plus this is average. So unless you can hit that kind of ac at level 10. Reliable and with enough damage, or have a way to buy pass DR.
You might want to go over your idea. When looking at a monster with a CR of your level +3 and find out how you would react to them. As most boss fights are CR +3-4 depending on what season your in. There is a possibility with in season 4, and 5 that you could encounter a CR +5 in tire as a boss fight. Scenario 10-11 (10.5+1 for number of players = Player APL 11.5) You can have a hard encounter at +3. So if your level 10 you could encounter a CR 14. If season 5 is any thing like season 4 and it's shaping up to be like it. There are going to be tough scenarios out there.
I will have spells for buffing myself, as well as my arcane pool...
Assuming a +3 staff, +7BAB, +4 from STR (though it could be +5 by then, possibly), +1 from weapon focus; that is +15 to hit. With -2 for spell combat, I am at +13. That is a 14+ on the AC27 boss you mention; difficult but not impossible. But again, that is ignoring all self buffs or party buffs. Which in a boss fight, I would certainly use. Probably gaining another +4 to +5 to hit (enlarging myself, buffing strength, etc.). I also have a few hexes to debuff that boss before I attack...
I realize it is not an optimized character... but I think you are looking at the superficial weakness and focusing on it, without allowing for the ways its strengths could overcome those weaknesses.
I haven't done anything further on the build since the initial idea; but I will spend some time working on it and see where it goes...
Maybe I am wrong, maybe it would never be viable... but I think it should be. It will just require some finesse in building and playing it.
The character is fine
Is it the best at doing damage no but thats not the be all and end all of the game
+15 to hit is way low for a level 10. My bard who is a combat bard self buffs to +16. Even then it's still on the low side. Then my paladin3/rogue3/fighter2 at level 8 he is not optimized by most players standards. BAB 7 + Str Mod 5 + Weapon Focus 1 + 1 Weapon = +14 -2 Power Attack = 12 with Two handed weapon +14 Damage. You can not count on other players buffing. There are not that many people playing group buffing characters in PFS. At least in my area. Can't even count on some one casting haste.
There are a few rules to follow when making a character.
1: Dose it do what you want?
2: Will you have fun playing it?
The only down side I can tell you. Some times builds don't perform as you think they should. When that happens it's time to retire them. You build concept sounds fine. I'm going to say it will work for a few levels. Due to you have not reached the level where game play starts to change to require focus to function. Past level 7 you might have to retire the character due to effectiveness. I could be wrong. However I have scraped more characters due to pore performance at higher level play. Then I really care to admit to.
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