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Ifrits can cast Enlarge Person on themselves as a spell-like ability. They're pretty amazing to see 'turn up the heat' during boss battles :)Some ifrits inherit an efreeti ancestor's ability to magically change a creature's size. They can cast either enlarge person or reduce person (the ifrit chooses when using this ability) once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the ifrit's level). The ifrit can use this ability to affect other ifrits as though they were humanoid creatures. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.(Bold mine)
Not themselves, Andrei.
Cheers Chris.
This SLA has been running differently in my region due to some confusion with the word 'other'. Our reading was that the intent of the sentence was to allow the SLA to be used on other Ifrits as well, not to limit the SLA.
In any event, I want to get this cleared up asap, so I made a rules thread on the issue: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qg3s?Ifrit-and-Efreeti-Magic-wording-confusion #1
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Ifrits can cast Enlarge Person on themselves as a spell-like ability. They're pretty amazing to see 'turn up the heat' during boss battles :)Some ifrits inherit an efreeti ancestor's ability to magically change a creature's size. They can cast either enlarge person or reduce person (the ifrit chooses when using this ability) once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the ifrit's level). The ifrit can use this ability to affect other ifrits as though they were humanoid creatures. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.(Bold mine)
Not themselves, Andrei.
Cheers Chris.
This SLA has been running differently in my region due to some confusion with the word 'other'. Our reading was that the intent of the sentence was to allow the SLA to be used on other Ifrits as well, not to limit the SLA.
In any event, I want to get this cleared up asap, so I made a rules thread on the issue: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qg3s?Ifrit-and-Efreeti-Magic-wording-confusion #1
I would argue since it does not say only other or directly say themselves either. That each GM at the table could decide.
Boons are not a deterrent to new players, actually they are an incentive to get more involved in the campaign.
Just dropping by here, not a member of PFS, but I thought it relevant to mention that the reason I'm not interested in PFS is that I took one look at the racial restrictions and decided I didn't want to touch PFS with a 10' pole because of them. You have no way of knowing how many new players boons deter, because we'll just never join a game.
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Boons are not a deterrent to new players, actually they are an incentive to get more involved in the campaign.Just dropping by here, not a member of PFS, but I thought it relevant to mention that the reason I'm not interested in PFS is that I took one look at the racial restrictions and decided I didn't want to touch PFS with a 10' pole because of them. You have no way of knowing how many new players boons deter, because we'll just never join a game.
Just so I'm clear, is there some specific pet race you are unwilling to play without? Or is 10 races just not enough diversity for you? Or is it something else?
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I'm on the verge of deploying again, and so I fully understand the point of view about not being able to attend cons. between that, work in general, and family life, I've never been able to afford to go to a con. But that is also one of the things that has drew me to start experimenting with other forms of play, and I think that both the online PbP and VTT Game Days are doing phenomenal jobs in allowing any and everyone to be able to participate and have a chance to gain special prizes and boons, in addition to meeting new players and the like.
The Online VO's have already said that there will be a new Online PbP in January, and MB mentioned a new VTT one coming up as well. They are free to play in, open to everyone, and at least for the PbP really do not require anything beyond your attention for a little most days of the week and a computer/ phone with internet.
As far as the amount of races, originally I was right there with most people, just wanting them all opened, but I'm starting to really reconsider that. I'm fine with Aasimar and Tieflings, but I am really starting to regret that the alternate races are just 100% freely allowed. I do not think they are very balanced, even compared to the normal Aasimar or Tiefing, but they also go a long way into starting to break the feel of the game, the mood when they start looking more and more inhuman. Catfolk, (and even Tengu to a point, though I have only ever seen one of these played), and all sorts of monstrous races being open to play both makes them far too common when they should be rare and starts shifting the game into some sort of weird homogenized, anime fan service thing. I'm honestly kind of tired of people wanting to play a Kitsune for exactly that reason, (so that they can play a carbon-copy of some anime/manga that has nothing really to do with the setting or the game). It's one thing to have that happen as a special prize that comes up once in a while, but not when the majority of the party is some emo Drizzt-like clone trying to be the one true unique snowflake.
It's also a little weird, both as a player and as a DM having so many non-core races in a party. I have an encounter the other day where the final boss had an ability to disguise himself as a party member and introduce a little craziness and fun, and then I realized that over half of the party was immune to it, or rather the BBEG couldn't use it on them. I've also been in a party a few times where it seemed like I was either the only "normal" race, or the only "normal" Aasimar (if not literally, close), and it just starts to feel off-putting.
Another issue (well potential one at least, it usually gets handwaved under the rug) is that some of the races fit in really oddly to some of the scenarios. A Tiefling in Season 5's Mendev scenario's should have some big issues, and being a Pathfinder should make it worse, not an excuse to hide it under the rug. Likewise being a Dhampir is Ustalav (and other places) should have some bad implications,, should cause some very interesting (in the Chinese sense) RP issues, but PFS and the individual scenarios are not really equipped to handle these. So, in most cases, I think further opening up, particularly exotic races beyond things like special prizes would be a terrible idea. It might be more fun for the individual that gets to play them, but in general would worsen the game for everyone else. I am not sure that would so much apply to other not-so exotic looking races. Gillman (though understand they in particular are not going to be open for other reasons, just an example) wouldn't be so bad, as they do not break the feel of the setting, in my opinion.
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Now, on a similar, but different note, one thing I do wish we had some more of would be to get special boons, not really so much con prizes as not common, but fairly easily accessible to all, to allow special little flavor things. The ability to gain a Pseudodragon pet, in the MMO sense, not the Animal Companion/Familiar sense. A little tag along buddy, that doesn't really have stats, but might have a bonus to this or that. The few times I have been involved in the scenarios that allowed similar things turned out to be very disappointing chronicle rewards as everyone that was interested in them was not able to actually use them with the character they just gained it for, (or would basically require a full rebuild). So in the end they basically just made everyone feel like they where being shown something cool that they could never get, (prior to DM star replay, but even then, with the limitations involved it just wouldn't really be feasible). So little thing like that would be very cool.
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So in the end they basically just made everyone feel like they where being shown something cool that they could never get, (prior to DM star replay, but even then, with the limitations involved it just wouldn't really be feasible). So little thing like that would be very cool.Why not just run it?
In one case I did, in the other, I just have not gotten to it yet, and not really something I specifically want. I was less saying this about myself personally and comments that the other players made afterwards.
:)
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In one case I did, in the other, I just have not gotten to it yet, and not really something I specifically want. I was less saying this about myself personally and comments that the other players made afterwards.
:)
Fair enough. But that's what I say to people in that situation--"Well, the good news is, you can just run it!" Some shrug it off, but others use that as the incentive to start GMing, and it occasionally turns out pretty well.
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boons serve no purpose but to punish the players whom can't attend a Con for a variety of reasons. there are plenty of reasons we can't attend a con, and there are many gamers whom can't afford to devote the massive amount of income to buy race boons.
in fact, the restrictive nature is a Deterrent to new PFS players
The second VTT online game day is this coming Saturday. There are somewhere between 35-50 tables scheduled. There are also GM and player boons available to be won. You don't need to attend anywhere but your seat in front of your computer at your house. I'm not sure how much easier it could be.
As for opening the ARG wide open, it is not going to happen. If you think PFS is restrictive, I challenge you to find a home game that offers as many options. We include all but three books out of all the books that have ever been published. I don't know of any home game that offers that many options. Just because you can't play the exact race you want doesn't mean PFS is overly restrictive. It means you don't have 12 options out of more than 4,000 that are available during character creation.
Mike,
While I agree that PFS is not overly restictive, you issued a challenge. In the last game I was running, I allowed everything Paizo published, along with a little 3pp stuff. In the campaign I am most actively playing in right now, we have access to everything Paizo publishes, except Mythic, available and 3PP stuff allowed on a case by case basis.
To be absolutely clear, I am in no way championing opening the ARG wide open for complete access. Though I would really like to see a couple more races opened up every year or so.
EDIT: for clarity
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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boons serve no purpose but to punish the players whom can't attend a Con for a variety of reasons. there are plenty of reasons we can't attend a con, and there are many gamers whom can't afford to devote the massive amount of income to buy race boons.
in fact, the restrictive nature is a Deterrent to new PFS players
The second VTT online game day is this coming Saturday. There are somewhere between 35-50 tables scheduled. There are also GM and player boons available to be won. You don't need to attend anywhere but your seat in front of your computer at your house. I'm not sure how much easier it could be.
As for opening the ARG wide open, it is not going to happen. If you think PFS is restrictive, I challenge you to find a home game that offers as many options. We include all but three books out of all the books that have ever been published. I don't know of any home game that offers that many options. Just because you can't play the exact race you want doesn't mean PFS is overly restrictive. It means you don't have 12 options out of more than 4,000 that are available during character creation.
Mike,
While I agree that PFS is not overly restictive, you issued a challenge. In the last game I was running, I allowed everything Paizo published, along with a little 3pp stuff. In the campaign I am most actively playing in right now, we have access to everything Paizo publishes, except Mythic, available and 3PP stuff allowed on a case by case basis.
Very cool. I wish I could have been a part of it. I've always wanted to play a drow anti-paladin. I also have an android gunslinger/alchemist built, that I will probably never have a chance to play, based off an old Alternity character I had.
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Very cool. I wish I could have been a part of it. I've always wanted to play a drow anti-paladin.boons serve no purpose but to punish the players whom can't attend a Con for a variety of reasons. there are plenty of reasons we can't attend a con, and there are many gamers whom can't afford to devote the massive amount of income to buy race boons.
in fact, the restrictive nature is a Deterrent to new PFS players
The second VTT online game day is this coming Saturday. There are somewhere between 35-50 tables scheduled. There are also GM and player boons available to be won. You don't need to attend anywhere but your seat in front of your computer at your house. I'm not sure how much easier it could be.
As for opening the ARG wide open, it is not going to happen. If you think PFS is restrictive, I challenge you to find a home game that offers as many options. We include all but three books out of all the books that have ever been published. I don't know of any home game that offers that many options. Just because you can't play the exact race you want doesn't mean PFS is overly restrictive. It means you don't have 12 options out of more than 4,000 that are available during character creation.
Mike,
While I agree that PFS is not overly restictive, you issued a challenge. In the last game I was running, I allowed everything Paizo published, along with a little 3pp stuff. In the campaign I am most actively playing in right now, we have access to everything Paizo publishes, except Mythic, available and 3PP stuff allowed on a case by case basis.
When you put it that way I imagine that restrictions would have popped up if people went completely against the theme. The campaign I ran was Curse of the Crimson Throne, and the one I am playing in, that I mentioned, is Carrion Crown. The people I play with don't generally need special restrictions to keep them from making characters that break the theme. Two of us are talking about Grippli characters for Skull and shackles, I was for a time thinking about a Vanara for that campaign even.
If my players wanted a campaign that would allow for a Drow Anti-Paladin, and all of my players were good with that I would endeavor to provide such a campaign.
I don't think asking for a couple of races a year, is anywhere near suggesting that Drow Anti-Paladins are appropriate for PFS. If that was the honest interpretation of my message then I apologize for my lack of clarity.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Fair enough, I wasn't aware of the theme you were GMing. If I had played in your Curse of the Crimson Throne game, I would have probably played a NE bard, based loosely on the pied piper, with musical instruments such as pipes of the sewer and pipes of haunting. it's another character concept I've had since way back in late 1st and early 2nd edition days but never had an opportunity to play.
For Carrion Crown, either a blight Druid or a vivisectionist, both being a skin walker or dhampir, would be awesome.
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Very cool. I wish I could have been a part of it. I've always wanted to play a drow anti-paladin. I also have an android gunslinger/alchemist built, that I will probably never have a chance to play, based off an old Alternity character I had.
Allow me to chime as another example of a home game that is more open that PFS. The drow might be tricky, but the android would be perfectly fine in my home game.
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Boons are not a deterrent to new players, actually they are an incentive to get more involved in the campaign.Just dropping by here, not a member of PFS, but I thought it relevant to mention that the reason I'm not interested in PFS is that I took one look at the racial restrictions and decided I didn't want to touch PFS with a 10' pole because of them. You have no way of knowing how many new players boons deter, because we'll just never join a game.
If you find that PFS is too restrictive even though about 90% of the printed rules are allowed that's okay too.
PFS is not for everyone.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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When you put it that way I imagine that restrictions would have popped up if people went completely against the theme.
I think this is the point. Completely opening the ARG or Mythic or a number of other things goes completely against the theme of PFS. People get upset and become excessively argumentative when their one character concept isn't allowed, even though there are hundreds and thousands of other choices.
Most of the options we have banned, when not for reasons of balance but instead flavor, have been because they just don't fit the in-world theme of the Pathfinder Society. I'm sure people will start arguing how this class or that archetype could be played within the theme of the Pathfinder Society. And I'm sure there are the rare exceptions that they could. But, PFS OP is worldwide spanning, and some things simply don't fit into the theme that Paizo is trying to establish.
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My personal preference is close to that of Drogon's...
No
-or-
Remove tiefling, aasimar, and tengu from legal-for-play list and No.
Just to bring this discussion back to where it started, I thought I'd throw my hat in with this sentiment.
I have generally been very pleased with all of the decisions the PFS staff has made over the years. . . except making aasimars legal. It was a mistake in my opinion. I can't even count the number of people I've run in to who play an aasimar simply because of the double stat bonus and the ability to cast daylight. Even in our local group where people tend to avoid cheese and overpowering too much, there are a few people who have admitted to playing an aasimar for no other reason than the above. I would not mind seeing them grandfathered out or restricted to racial boons like they used to be.
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I have generally been very pleased with all of the decisions the PFS staff has made over the years. . . except making aasimars legal. It was a mistake in my opinion. I can't even count the number of people I've run in to who play an aasimar simply because of the double stat bonus and the ability to cast daylight. Even in our local group where people tend to avoid cheese and overpowering too much, there are a few people who have admitted to playing an aasimar for no other reason than the above. I would not mind seeing them grandfathered out or restricted to racial boons like they used to be.
I don't think that the base Aasimar is the issue. (likewise not trying to debate if they are overpowered or not, but in my experience they are not)
The alternate Aasimar (and Tieflings), is where the issues tend to come in in my experience. The basic one works well for Clerics, Sorcerer, and Oracles as one of the few races that boost Wis and/or Cha, and really don't bring anything all that special to the table outside of being occasionally immune to something, but that works both ways, and would even say more of an restriction more often than not. But the alternate Aasimar do throw in some odd things, basically customizable stats that work very well for all classes, a unique spell like ability that is far better than Daylight 1/Day (free Everburning Torch a day or being able to gain LV, Scent, a Swim Speed, and a +2 Str/Dex (and a polymorph effect, too) is a bit much. Glitterdust is often seen as one of the most powerful spells of it's level.
I don't think that Aasimar should be made illegal, but I'm thinking that the alternate heritages should be.
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@DM Beckett: Yes, you make a good point.
There's also something to be said for the number of such races running around though. Maybe making variant heritages illegal would quell the tide of ARG races but there are just so many aasimars running around that it doesn't seem too special anymore when, in Golarion, they shouldn't be overly common. I saw the same problem when the market was flooded with kitsune boons last year.
I haven't seen the same problem with the other racial boons though and for some reason haven't seen that problem with tengus. There's just something about the aasimar that people gravitate towards and I think it's that double stat bonus and the SLAs.
I would just like to see aasimars become something more of a special item like they were when they were limited to boons. When my dhampir pulls up to the table, everyone 'oos' and 'ahs', as they should. There aren't too many dhampirs walking around the Society. I'd like to see the same thing happen with aasimars. They are part-celestial beings, after all. People should oo and ah when one walks in the room.
BigNorseWolf makes a good point too, and one that fits it well with what I just said above. Effectively 5 races to represent something that should be relatively rare in Golarion and yet I seem to have at least one at every table I play at or GM.
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On the subject of things that have been banned for being too good, any word on when an errata to Ultimate Equipment or a reprinting (with updated price) of Bracers of Falchions Aim would be likely to come in some form?
I'd also be interested in this. But I don't think it was a matter of 'banning things that are too good' as making sure things aren't overpowered. Bracers of Falcon's Aim were overpowered for their price; I'm pretty sure the developers said it was a misprint/miscalculation that was meant to be adjusted. With aasimars it's partly a matter of them being overpowered (or at least with 5 heritage options they are) but it's also about the misrepresentation of the gameworld with so many aasimars running around the Society.
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@DM Beckett: Yes, you make a good point.
There's also something to be said for the number of such races running around though. Maybe making variant heritages illegal would quell the tide of ARG races but there are just so many aasimars running around that it doesn't seem too special anymore when, in Golarion, they shouldn't be overly common. I saw the same problem when the market was flooded with kitsune boons last year.
I haven't seen the same problem with the other racial boons though and for some reason haven't seen that problem with tengus. There's just something about the aasimar that people gravitate towards and I think it's that double stat bonus and the SLAs.
I would just like to see aasimars become something more of a special item like they were when they were limited to boons. When my dhampir pulls up to the table, everyone 'oos' and 'ahs', as they should. There aren't too many dhampirs walking around the Society. I'd like to see the same thing happen with aasimars. They are part-celestial beings, after all. People should oo and ah when one walks in the room.
I can partially agree to that. I do think that banning (or restricting the alternate heritages to special boons) would go a long way to solving that issue. For me, a lot of the reason I like the Aasimar is that they are descended angels and good outsiders, but not to the point of being Celestials or Half-Celestials. They are not common, but neither are they rare. And generally they are not any different than an average human, jut with a little spark of something divine. It's as much the basic flavor as well as that they tend to make a good fit for the classes I generally like to play (Clerics and Paladin types). But, I really think that if the alternate Aasimar where no longer allowed, it would severely cut down on the number of Aasimar in play in general, because +2 Wis and Cha, Daylight, and a few other little things sound nice, but not getting that Human Bonus Feat and extra Skill Point, (or whatever other racial boon) can be a really difficult trade off. Oddly enough, in my experience, I tend to see much more Tieflings than I do Aasimar in play. Tieflings (and the whole badboy race thing), just don't really do it for me, personally, but they are pretty popular.
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I would actually be okay with making the variant Tiefling/Aasimar races boon-only, especially if it meant there would be more variation in the races that did get opened by boon.
Hell, I'd even support that if it meant a rebuild, rather than a grandfathering. The alternate heritages are great for character concepts, and I would miss them, but they're a lot better for insane builds, and I wouldn't miss that.
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@DM Beckett: Yes, you make a good point.
There's also something to be said for the number of such races running around though. Maybe making variant heritages illegal would quell the tide of ARG races but there are just so many aasimars running around that it doesn't seem too special anymore when, in Golarion, they shouldn't be overly common. I saw the same problem when the market was flooded with kitsune boons last year.
I haven't seen the same problem with the other racial boons though and for some reason haven't seen that problem with tengus. There's just something about the aasimar that people gravitate towards and I think it's that double stat bonus and the SLAs.
I would just like to see aasimars become something more of a special item like they were when they were limited to boons. When my dhampir pulls up to the table, everyone 'oos' and 'ahs', as they should. There aren't too many dhampirs walking around the Society. I'd like to see the same thing happen with aasimars. They are part-celestial beings, after all. People should oo and ah when one walks in the room.
BigNorseWolf makes a good point too, and one that fits it well with what I just said above. Effectively 5 races to represent something that should be relatively rare in Golarion and yet I seem to have at least one at every table I play at or GM.
I would approach it from the exact opposite route.
For the people that want to see more elves, gnomes, dwarves, etc instead of aasimar and teiflings, the way to go would be to create more subraces of those prime groups. All the sub race options allow for the outsiders, along with humans and somewhat half races, to do any class well. It would be nice if those other races had that same flexibility.
Additionally, I know that I will never even consider making an elf character for PF because I am never willing to take a hit on CON needlessly, I don't even consider them in the character creation process. If there were other options for elves, like there were in 3.5, I would be more than happy to use them.
Also, the native outsiders aren't supposed to be rare, in one or both of the BLOOD OF ...... books for them, it stated that there was some recent event causing a massive influx of these races into Galorian.
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Off the top of my head: Tieflings have been fairly common, though generally second class citizens in Cheliax, and because both seem to randomly appear in otherwise mostly human families. If a single parent has any history of mixing with an outsider (ever) then they can potentially sire/birth an Aasimar/Tiefling. In the Dragon Empires, there is an entire Aasimar country, and they are not really uncommon. And finally, with the events going on in the Worldwound, and specifically the last few crusades, the hordes have purposefully be trying to create more Tieflings, both to spread real and perceived trouble, to swell the ranks of cultists, and to force the crusaders to fight an another front and divide their focus even more.
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I would actually be okay with making the variant Tiefling/Aasimar races boon-only, especially if it meant there would be more variation in the races that did get opened by boon.
Hell, I'd even support that if it meant a rebuild, rather than a grandfathering. The alternate heritages are great for character concepts, and I would miss them, but they're a lot better for insane builds, and I wouldn't miss that.
I assumed that the aasimar and tiefling were opened in part because of the Blood of.. books. Since the bottom line in PFS for Paizo involves butts in seats with additional resources purchased.
I also would think long and hard about making people retrain. That would do nothing except antagonize players by directly stripping them of character options for no compelling reason except the overblown dislike some people have of planetouched races. Grandfathering would be a necessity in this situation.
I don't support removing any race choices from play unless it was part of a rotation where other races are immediately opened up. but then again, I never seen either the aasimar or tiefling and certainly not the tengu pose any kind of threat to the iron grasp that humans still have on race choices and I think that concerns about balance where these races are concerned are ill-considered and probably way overblown.
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If you have a case number from the local PD, I will do some investigating. If the story does pan out, I will certainly send you another Sylph boon. Feel free to email me that case number.
i remember Going to Snafu in Nevada 3 years ago and getting a Sylph Boon, when i came home with a smile in my face, i was in the hospital a week later and my boon strongarmed out of my possession after being brutally beaten by 12 thugs. they couldn't recover the boon because they said "Tracing a Piece of Paper" "isn't worth their time."
See, by limiting the amount of race boons people are getting their asses kicked over them. STOP THE BRUTALITY, GIVE MORE BOONS!
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Boons are not a deterrent to new players, actually they are an incentive to get more involved in the campaign.Just dropping by here, not a member of PFS, but I thought it relevant to mention that the reason I'm not interested in PFS is that I took one look at the racial restrictions and decided I didn't want to touch PFS with a 10' pole because of them. You have no way of knowing how many new players boons deter, because we'll just never join a game.
This is a problem because there are many players (me being one) who would leave if every time they sat down they were sitting down with five uber special snowflake played by players with an enlarged sense of entitlement. Basically you would alienate a large part of the current player base to pursue/create another player base, which would be ironic considering that Pathfinder's success is partially built on that other company doing just that.
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This is a problem because there are many players (me being one) who would leave if every time they sat down they were sitting down with five uber special snowflake played by players with an enlarged sense of entitlement. Basically you would alienate a large part of the current player base to pursue/create another player base, which would be ironic considering that Pathfinder's success is partially built on that other company doing just that.Boons are not a deterrent to new players, actually they are an incentive to get more involved in the campaign.Just dropping by here, not a member of PFS, but I thought it relevant to mention that the reason I'm not interested in PFS is that I took one look at the racial restrictions and decided I didn't want to touch PFS with a 10' pole because of them. You have no way of knowing how many new players boons deter, because we'll just never join a game.
Is the problem that players feel entitled to play races in which they have payed money for, perhaps with no real interest in owning the book otherwise, or that players feel entitled to tell other players what is an acceptable race to play and deride the former group for not agreeing with their personal opinion on aesthetics?
Just so I'm clear, is there some specific pet race you are unwilling to play without? Or is 10 races just not enough diversity for you? Or is it something else?
It's not the amount of diversity, it's about perceived "fairness". I'd be totally OK with a campaign that said "no races outside the core book". And a few people having access to exotic races because they gave a couple of hundred dollars to charity isn't a problem either.
But if the society gives people access to exotic races, I want access to the specific exotic stuff that I want, too. In my particular case, that's drow, which is obviously never going to happen in PFS*. Again, I could easily live without the option of making a drow if everyone is similarly limited, but giving the people around me a thousand options that aren't in the core rules while denying me the particular option I actually want is insulting and unfriendly and I'll save us both trouble and not play in your campaign.
(Privilege for people who have played more is already built into the system in the form of access to higher level characters.)
* I'm aware of the canon, I just think the canon's dumb. If I were an American game company that prided myself on being socially progressive, my canon wouldn't include the trope "there's a subrace of elves that are distinctive in that 1. they all have black skin, and 2. they're universally evil." But I digress.
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Fair enough. But that's what I say to people in that situation--"Well, the good news is, you can just run it!" Some shrug it off, but others use that as the incentive to start GMing, and it occasionally turns out pretty well.In one case I did, in the other, I just have not gotten to it yet, and not really something I specifically want. I was less saying this about myself personally and comments that the other players made afterwards.
:)
I like the sentiment but I would rather do something to fix the problem of players unknowingly wasting cool scenario boons on characters that cannot use them than encourage people to farm scenarios as a DM rather than a player to get the boons they want.
If there is an actual uptick in the number of people taking this to heart the consequence will be an uptick in mediocre tables due to lack of DM enthusiasm as well as a glut of the scenarios with the coolest boons being run over and over and over to the exclusion of other things.
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If there is an actual uptick in the number of people taking this to heart the consequence will be an uptick in mediocre tables due to lack of DM enthusiasm as well as a glut of the scenarios with the coolest boons being run over and over and over to the exclusion of other things.
Mediocre DM today, maybe great DM tomorrow. Who knows.
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Mediocre DM today, maybe great DM tomorrow. Who knows..
If there is an actual uptick in the number of people taking this to heart the consequence will be an uptick in mediocre tables due to lack of DM enthusiasm as well as a glut of the scenarios with the coolest boons being run over and over and over to the exclusion of other things.
But if they are DMing solely to get a boon there is not likely to be a tomorrow. I would rather people be enthusiastic about the act of DMing itself rather than a specific reward off of a chronicle.
To be fair I am probably being overly pessimistic and I should probably give the players of PFS a little more credit than I am.
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Is the problem that players feel entitled to play races in which they have payed money for, perhaps with no real interest in owning the book otherwise, or that players feel entitled to tell other players what is an acceptable race to play and deride the former group for not agreeing with their personal opinion on aesthetics?
It is coming into an established campaign,like pfs, and demanding your way or the highway. If I'm in an established game and I don't like the changes, I have the right to leave. If a lot of people would leave if everything were opened up who are already playing, Mike and Co. need to keep that in mind.
And yes, opening up races did have a significant effect on the demise of past organized play systems, which I undiplomatically called special snowflakess.
They need to find a balance and so far, they've done a pretty good job. Both sides need to realize they are not going to get all that they want, and live with it.
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Is the problem that players feel entitled to play races in which they have payed money for, perhaps with no real interest in owning the book otherwise, or that players feel entitled to tell other players what is an acceptable race to play and deride the former group for not agreeing with their personal opinion on aesthetics?
It is coming into an established campaign,like pfs, and demanding your way or the highway. If I'm in an established game and I don't like the changes, I have the right to leave. If a lot of people would leave if everything were opened up who are already playing, Mike and Co. need to keep that in mind.
And yes, opening up races did have a significant effect on the demise of past organized play systems, which I undiplomatically called special snowflakess.
They need to find a balance and so far, they've done a pretty good job. Both sides need to realize they are not going to get all that they want, and live with it.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but you appear to be contradicting yourself. You state that demanding your way or the highway is wrong for players to do, presumably in reference to people wanting more races or wanting to keep the races currently in play, but then you state that is exactly what people should do when they do not like new races being opened up, and that the administration should respond to the ultimatums of those like-minded people.
Of course my perception could be biased, but I see a lot more vitriol, personal attacks, and entitlement coming from the "I want less race options at my table" crowd than from the "I would like more race options" crowd. That is not to say there is none from the other direction, there were a couple of rather humorous examples in this thread, but those seem to be few and far between. I have lost track of the number of people who are representative of this statement.
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Welcome Nofir.
Thank you for the input. If you so desire, any time before your play as a second level character, you may rebuild your character. So if you wanted to choose a different race, I think that is still an option for you. Also, if one of the things you liked about the kobolds are their stat handicap, you could always emulate such a thing in your point buy choices.
I was thinking more about the lack of options in the core races and personal tastes really throws a lot of those out of the window from the get go. I dislike small races aesthetically, and I include dwarves into that group. While I liked elves a lot in earlier versions where there were multiple stat options, I won't take a hit to CON just to play one. So among the core races, that basically leaves me the options of human, half elf, and half orc. My wife shares these same aesthetic preferences, but also dislikes the idea of a half orc. Additionally, if either of us would like to make a character wanting race to help focus on two different stats, the only option left in core is the Dual Talented human.
I know the amount of assimar and teiflings we make would go down if there were medium sized stat equivalent alternatives like the old Grey Elves, Sun Elves etc.
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but you appear to be contradicting yourself. You state that demanding your way or the highway is wrong for players to do, presumably in reference to people wanting more races or wanting to keep the races currently in play, but then you state that is exactly what people should do when they do not like new races being opened up, and that the administration should respond to the ultimatums of those like-minded people.
First off, my last few posts have come off as a little shrill, for that I appologise (it's what sometimes happens when you post without enough sleep). As for why people who want more races, particularly those who want to open up everything I feel have less moral weight behind it is twofold.
First off, in PFS Golorian is a world set up with certain facts built it, for example, humans are the most dominant race, Cheliax worships devils, Andoran doesn't allow slavery etc. Everyone who plays in PFS accepts these 'givens'. When you alter the racial demographics too much you are changing one of these basic facts, rather like getting rid of Andoran.Secondly, I would say, look at the GM stars. I wouldn't say it's everyone, but the players who have put in a lot of time and energy GMing, setting up games, and basically giving their blood sweat and tears tend to be on the 'lets not open up too much' side of things. I think that should carry some weight. Also many of them have been in past organized play systems like Living Greyhawk and Living City. I wasn't there, but I have heard a lot of people talking about having tables where a Lizard man, 2 Drow, and an Assimar walk into a bar in a major city and it's a 'lets blend into the crowd' mission. Basically, the 'lets let everything in' attitude detracted from the game, and resulted in a loss of players over time.
Of course my perception could be biased, but I see a lot more vitriol, personal attacks, and entitlement coming from the "I want less race options at my table" crowd than from the "I would like more race options" crowd. That is not to say there is none from the other direction, there were a couple of rather humorous examples in this thread, but those seem to be few and far between. I have lost track of the number of people who are representative of this statement.
I think is a perception because I have just the opposite perception. But I think what it is is both of us perceiving different things as offensive.
I remember maybe 2 years ago, there was a simular thread, and I cited that I had gone to local cons on public transportation, put in hours of prep time etc etc. Basically it came down to "I earned my boon, you don't have to have a lot of money/resources to do it, and so can you, if you want to, and here's some suggestions how." I remember someone taking offense to what I thought was a reasonable/thoughtful group of suggestions. I was basically thinking in response to her, 'who are you to want something for nothing'.
But the point was, I was valuing 'sweat equity' while she thought it was enough that she had bought a book. I think there is a lot of values dissonance like this underlying these conversations, thus we perceive the other side and being rude or unreasonable.
Hope that helps,
Kerney
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The problem with the attitude that buying a book deserves some reward, is that I bought the book AND when to a Con.
That is why I have always thought at the back of my mind that the con boons should not be just things from books slapped onto chronicle sheets, but instead be things that are not in PFS legal books. I suspect that the reply to this idea is still that Paizo just does not have the resources for the development work that would require but there is plenty of content that they could tap. There are RPGSS Top 32 items from going on 5 years now as well as 3PP content written by relatively trusted freelancers.
Also it seems that the leadership has been moving away from races being the shiny thing at cons slightly now that it seems that all the player boons are non-races and only DMs get races at any size of event.
If Paizo had the time and resources to keep moving in that direction it would be the best of both worlds to reward both those who attend events as well as those who buy a book and see something cool in it.
Is it wrong I was actually expecting for once that Blood of the Moon would be the return of Chronicle Sheets inside it for preordering it to allow playability of a race?
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My 2 cp is that I believe that the elemental races should be made a bit more available. Especially considering that Aasimars and Tieflings are as well. I don't think however that I can make a better argument for them then has previously been stated.
As an aside, in my years of playing and GMing, multiple cons included, I have never seen a character or even the boonsheet for those races. I know they must exist but they just don't seem to come to Idaho :(