to add to the "freak show" aspect, why not add something at the low end of the Large size category?
good idea
we have 4 classes that are already freakish regardless of race choice, it's not like even more freakish races will really do anything.
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i'd consider these a lot more freakish than [...] a black skinned elf, not only cosmetically, but due to the stuff associated with said freaks
Drow in Golarion are NOT the same as drow in other fantasy campaigns, e.g. FR. Just because rules options are in a generic PFRPG book, it doesn't mean they're at all appropriate for an often city-based shared campaign set in the Inner Sea region.
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The "not yet appearing in the world" argument against catfolk is a solid one. There is, however, a precedent for ratfolk, and a perfectly good in-game rationale for ratfolk joining the Society. I would argue that the rationale there is better than any rationale for the tengu, since there is an established, in-game relationship between the PFS and at least one ratfolk community.
I have to agree with this- since "Rats of Round Mountain", this seems very, very viable and believable. The Catfolk, much less so in my opinion.
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is a sylph street urchin vagabond or drow dervish any more eccentric than a summoner, druid, gunslinger or alchemist?Yes.i don't see how
Gunslingers Carry a bunch of fancy weapons, exotic contraptions and other unique pieces of equipment, plus there is the fact they smell like gunpowder and a makeshift alchemy lab
Alchemists literally run around with such deformities as either a tumor or a second set of arms, they also happen to be a walking pharmacy that smells like an alchemy lab
summoners are literally accompanied by a freakish extraplanar pet with lotsa natural attacks, and have a visible marking somewhere on their body that gives them away.
druids are freaks in their own right, at the low levels wearing some form of leaves or hides, and eventually taking the form of animals whom wear leaves or hides, cast spells, and speak
i'd consider these a lot more freakish than a light hued and whispy sylph or a black skinned elf, not only cosmetically, but due to the stuff associated with said freaks
Gunslingers, summoners, alchemists and druids all have fairly reasonable explanations for why they exist on Golarion and as playable classes.
Gunslingers developed in a region where magic doesn't function, so they developed an alternate specialist method of dealing damage. Alchemists, similarly, combined advances in spellcraft and chemistry to create their own weapons, consumables, and what are essentially extremely advanced combinations of mutation and surgery. Summoners are a variant of conjuration spell taken to the max, a natural evolution of wizards, with their casting stat explained by the force of will and personality required to create eidolons. Druids are conduits of forces of nature.
Yes, all of the above stick out like sore thumbs. But so does the fighter with a golfbag full of weapons, the wizard with an imp or pseudodragon on his shoulder, the rogue sneaking around like the most suspicious person on the planet, the cleric radiating holy goodness or unholy evil all around them... you get the idea.
The point here when talking about the "eccentricity" of races is not "we don't want you playing these races because they look and/or act funny and therefore do not fit into society at large". The point is that they do not have a place in society at large because of either their established backgrounds (drow are universally hated in Golarion - I know I've explained this to you before) or because of their lack of one (what sort of culture do catfolk have? how does a sylph even come into existence in terms of being conceived and born?). As for the banned classes, they were considered overpowered for the setting of Pathfinder Society in specific, or flavor-wise do not fit the ideals of the Society.
I don't really know why I'm bothering to type this all up, but eh, I had nothing better to do.
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I don't have strong opinions either way (even now I still make more humans than any other race) but my only observations is that I think if any races are to be opened up, I would like the next one to be a Small race.
On top, out of the races unlocked by boons, we have only seen wayangs and grippli (not counting the 30-some goblins) opened up.
I'd say yes - lets this time around open up small races
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Here's a piece of history, that might give us some perspective.
A couple of years ago, two of the most keenly sought boons were the aasimar and tiefling races. The campaign leadership gave the local gaming convention, Gamicon, an aasimar boon to put in the charity auction. It went for $100.
That's a lot of money, but the winner got a rare racial boon that --- what's that? Five months later, the aasimar race was opened to everyone, without any need for a boon?
Well, I'll bet that guy who paid $100 had some buyer's regret, eh?
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If you're looking for races to open, I can suggest that the races that the convention GMs are earning this year, the elemental native outsider races, should be off the table until Gen Con 2015. That is, if getting to play an undine is a cool reward for GMs, then let's not undercut it by making the race available to anyone.
Worse, the current GM boons can be used for either (a) starting a new elemental-race outsider, or (b) a bonus to an existing character. So a GM starting an undine warprist will feel doubly-undercut.
Likewise, people paid $400 to play the only changeling, the only catfolk, the only vanara, in Pathfinder Society play. If we open those races now, we undercut those bids.
If we establish that precedent, how do you think that will impact next year's auction?
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Aasimars and tieflings fit perfectly with a human centric world. They're both half-human.
And tengu may be an available option, but realistically, have you ever seen anyone play one? I haven't, and we run 6 to 10 tables of PFS at my store every single week, with a regular player base of over 65 players. Aasimars and tieflings see a lot of play because they're mechanically good and flexible. Tengu are good for precious few builds.
This is funny. Our local store has one player who literally has a Tengu in every class minus druid and none of them are terrible. In all fairness he is the only person who plays Tengu but all of his characters are Tengu
Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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i played for a few months on another account, didn't like all the restrictions and left.please open up more Races in PFS and please bring back Vivisectionists, Master Summoners, Synthesists, Swift Action Weapon Cords, and Pre Errata Heirloom Weapon that gave you a masterwork weapon, free proficiency in that weapon, and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.I suspect that the vast majority of these will never be (re)opened, for valid game balance or campaign setting reasons. And PFS will always use the current version of a trait, so asking for an old version is futile.
As for the races: I'm a very liberal and lenient GM, and even I banned strix from my home campaign.
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My opinion is that the vast majority of people hate anything outside of the core races but then most fantasy "fans" are actually Tolkien fans and see anything outside of traditional high fantasy as an abomination. (You can argue this all you want but I have seen too much evidence in real life, these boards, and the boards over at Wizards of the Coast to be persuaded that I am wrong in believing this). I think as far as the lore goes the available races make sense outside of Tengu as from what I have read of the Inner Sea World Guide and all of the Dragon Empire/Jade Regent stuff Tengus are common but not any more common then several other races(outside of having their own country).
I think the argument can be made for any race. If you really sit down and read the Inner Sea Guide even some of the core races aren't all that common outside of select countries or regions. I don't see why they don't include more of the races. People argue "how do they fit???", I argue "because it isn't middle earth and anyone who has stepped outside of traditional high fantasy can see the influence of several forms of fiction, not just fantasy genres, at play in the Golarion setting so figuring something out is about as hard as telling the difference between a poo and a fart".
As is, I think the racial boon deal is working just fine. It makes the races that are "supposed to be rare" just that. I dislike how it is hard for players to get their hands on them without crossing over into GMing. I have witnessed many a person that is a decent player, who has no business running a game, totally murdering a scenario.
Honestly I think that since you have to buy the resource books to show ownership when wanting to use additional resources in PFS that certain books (advanced races guide, I’m looking at you) should come with an attached random racial boon. If it isn’t the race you want there are plenty of trading forms online. I think that makes some of the purchases more valuable and meaningful to the play experience. Especially when you consider that many places don't audit characters and people use pirated material on a regular basis, having a physical racial boon for spending the money would be yummy cakes with butter cream.
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Here's a piece of history, that might give us some perspective.
A couple of years ago, two of the most keenly sought boons were the aasimar and tiefling races. The campaign leadership gave the local gaming convention, Gamicon, an aasimar boon to put in the charity auction. It went for $100.
That's a lot of money, but the winner got a rare racial boon that --- what's that? Five months later, the aasimar race was opened to everyone, without any need for a boon?
Well, I'll bet that guy who paid $100 had some buyer's regret, eh?
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If you're looking for races to open, I can suggest that the races that the convention GMs are earning this year, the elemental native outsider races, should be off the table until Gen Con 2015. That is, if getting to play an undine is a cool reward for GMs, then let's not undercut it by making the race available to anyone.
Worse, the current GM boons can be used for either (a) starting a new elemental-race outsider, or (b) a bonus to an existing character. So a GM starting an undine warprist will feel doubly-undercut.
Likewise, people paid $400 to play the only changeling, the only catfolk, the only vanara, in Pathfinder Society play. If we open those races now, we undercut those bids.
If we establish that precedent, how do you think that will impact next year's auction?
As you just pointed out, the precedent has already been established. It does not appear to have had a deleterious impact on the income from the auction.
Did people pay that money to play "the only" changeling? Or did they pay that money to play "a" changeling? Was there any guarantee at the time that the boon would never be offered again? (That's a serious question; I wasn't there and consequently wouldn't know.)
If the boon was sold as an exclusive, then it should remain an exclusive, I agree. If it wasn't sold as an exclusive, then caveat emptor: It has already been demonstrated that an auctioned boon might someday be opened up for others to use.
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And tengu may be an available option, but realistically, have you ever seen anyone play one? I haven't, and we run 6 to 10 tables of PFS at my store every single week, with a regular player base of over 65 players. Aasimars and tieflings see a lot of play because they're mechanically good and flexible. Tengu are good for precious few builds.
My Lore Warden is a Tengu, and he's one of my favorite characters. When I get around to fielding my Mad Dog, he will also be a Tengu.
But then, I'm one of those weirdos who plays things based on a character concept, rather than the way the mechanics integrate.
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Did people pay that money to play "the only" changeling? Or did they pay that money to play "a" changeling? Was there any guarantee at the time that the boon would never be offered again? (That's a serious question; I wasn't there and consequently wouldn't know.)
If the boon was sold as an exclusive, then it should remain an exclusive, I agree. If it wasn't sold as an exclusive, then caveat emptor: It has already been demonstrated that an auctioned boon might someday be opened up for others to use.
Actually, the opposite. It was clear there was NO guarantee that the races and classes auctioned off at Gencon would be exclusive at all. Any of them could be opened up later either for free or with another boon from any source.
As a winner of one of the PrC ones, I would not feel slighted at all if they decided to open up my PrC to everyone else. It was for charity guys.
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Likewise, people paid $400 to play the only changeling, the only catfolk, the only vanara, in Pathfinder Society play. If we open those races now, we undercut those bids.
If we establish that precedent, how do you think that will impact next year's auction?
I would be curious as to the answer to Patrick Harris' question about the implied terms of the auction. I imagine that there are many races that are more likely to be opened before the vanara, catfolk and whatever else was auctioned and thus even if they are opened it will give wohever has the boon plenty of lead time to have their exclusive shiny.
Also I would like to point out that the vast majority of PFS players do not know about the auctions and do not care because big cons in the US are unreachable to them and thus things exclusive to Paizocon or Gencon are largely irrelevant to their PFS experience. The fact that someone at Gencon paid an outrageous amount of money to play a vanara is just not a compelling reason to take it off the table as a race option for everyone else, if only because that reason really does not square with the largely successful push over the last year or so to make things like race boons and con-exclusive specials relevant to the majority of players. Making sweeping rulings literally for the sake of three individual players is silly and counterproductive.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Put me down in favor of not opening up additional races. Star Wars would have been a lot less interesting if the main characters were Chewbacca, two droids, an Ewok, and Jar-Jar Binks. Humans and the human-like core races lend the game a verisimilitude that would be shattered by a proliferation of the more outre races.
The only other thought I have is that additional races could be opened and closed based on season metaplots. For instance, tengu, wayang, samsaran, and nagaji open at the beginning of the Tian-Xia focused Season 3, then closed at the beginning of Season 4, with characters created during S3 grandfathered in. Or, only issue the boons for those races during the appropriate season. Aasimar and tieflings would, of course, be appropriate for Season 5. The elemental races could be appropriate for Season 6 since that's supposed to be Osirion-focused to tie in with Mummy's Mask AP.
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Not sure why everyone is arguing about those three races auctioned off at Gen Con charity so much. They are rather uncommon, at least one of them seriously lacks back-up in books so far and they are all kind of special.
There are a lot more races which fit a lot easier and are a lot more common on Golarion, the inner sea region or regions where PFS was active.
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to add to the "freak show" aspect, why not add something at the low end of the Large size category?
This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount, I would imagine the archtype would need to be rewritten to allow a large Beast Rider to select a gargantuan mount.
A great new addition to the freak show, a Minotaur riding a Brachiosaurus through Absalom.
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to add to the "freak show" aspect, why not add something at the low end of the Large size category?This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount, I would imagine the archtype would need to be rewritten to allow a large Beast Rider to select a gargantuan mount.
A great new addition to the freak show, a Minotaur riding a Brachiosaurus through Absalom.
You mean Bob?
Good customer. I think he's a cousin to Nuar Spiritskin.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Total derail, which I think is fine since this is a rambling thread anyway.
This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount...
I think you misunderstand this archetype. They never get anything larger than large.
The mention of huge in the beast rider's exotic mount ability is in determining which animal the beast rider can choose. After the choice, they use the druid's animal companion to determine it's size and statistics. Even after level 7, the largest size possible is large.
"A 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge....to generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications... Size: Large."
If you're looking for something huge sized to pop a squat on, check out the Mammoth Rider PRC.
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Total derail, which I think is fine since this is a rambling thread anyway.
This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount...I think you misunderstand this archetype. They never get anything larger than large.
The mention of huge in the beast rider's exotic mount ability is in determining which animal the beast rider can choose. After the choice, they use the druid's animal companion to determine it's size and statistics. Even after level 7, the largest size possible is large.
"A 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge....to generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications... Size: Large."
If you're looking for something huge sized to pop a squat on, check out the Mammoth Rider PRC.
Interesting, I always took that as being able to actually ride a huge mount. Good to know as my medium beast rider is nearing 7th level.
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to add to the "freak show" aspect, why not add something at the low end of the Large size category?This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount, I would imagine the archtype would need to be rewritten to allow a large Beast Rider to select a gargantuan mount.
A great new addition to the freak show, a Minotaur riding a Brachiosaurus through Absalom.
You mean Bob?
Good customer. I think he's a cousin to Nuar Spiritskin.
Nuar just needs to stay away from his "friend" Grandmaster Torch...depending on ones outcome from Rivalry's End.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Interesting, I always took that as being able to actually ride a huge mount. Good to know as my medium beast rider is nearing 7th level.Total derail, which I think is fine since this is a rambling thread anyway.
This would certainly make playing a Beast Rider Cavalier interesting. Since a medium Cavalier can select a huge mount...I think you misunderstand this archetype. They never get anything larger than large.
The mention of huge in the beast rider's exotic mount ability is in determining which animal the beast rider can choose. After the choice, they use the druid's animal companion to determine it's size and statistics. Even after level 7, the largest size possible is large.
"A 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge....to generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications... Size: Large."
If you're looking for something huge sized to pop a squat on, check out the Mammoth Rider PRC.
Of course, that's just my interpretation of the rules. I could just as easily be misunderstood. Luckily, a large lion or tiger mount is something to be afraid of.
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Also I would like to point out that the vast majority of PFS players do not know about the auctions and do not care because big cons in the US are unreachable to them and thus things exclusive to Paizocon or Gencon are largely irrelevant to their PFS experience. The fact that someone at Gencon paid an outrageous amount of money to play a vanara is just not a compelling reason to take it off the table as a race option for everyone else, if only because that reason really does not square with the largely successful push over the last year or so to make things like race boons and con-exclusive specials relevant to the majority of players. Making sweeping rulings literally for the sake of three individual players is silly and counterproductive.
I disagree. While the race boons went for a lot it was also to raise money for a charity and I know people spend more on things like these. Also the "big cons" in the us are not as expensive as you make them out to be if you are willing to do some research, maybe run some games and look for deals. There are some people that can afford to do non of these things and there are others I know personally that went to gencon that did it all for less than $300 last year because they were smart about how they did things.
I think the way races are done now is fine. The elemental boons have not been out for years. They were offered exclusively at gencon last year, then they were offered at gencon this year and now local conventions are now able to see these races. With online conventions, online game days (that I think have had boons) and the number of small conventions around the world there is really no excuse at this point. I would be in favor of getting rid of aasamir and tieflings to open up other races, but it shouldn't be the elemental races or if it was not until gencon next year to give the people that just got those boons a chance to play them. I would also be in favor of opening up race boons at certain gm star levels.
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please open up more Races in PFS and please bring back Vivisectionists, Master Summoners, Synthesists, Swift Action Weapon Cords, and Pre Errata Heirloom Weapon that gave you a masterwork weapon, free proficiency in that weapon, and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.
i want to see open and unrestricted access to the advanced race guide and all the alternate racial traits it holds, such as darkvision for elves, drow blooded half elves, elemental kin, dhampirs, and yes, orcs, strix and merfolk too.
if you guys are worried about a circus, i will tell you, that fantasy has changed in the last 40 years, and because it might look like a group of freaks at a game table, doesn't mean every NPC has to be a circus.
the freaks, that are the eccentric minority known as adventurers, would have all drew attention, regardless of their race.
is a sylph street urchin vagabond or drow dervish any more eccentric than a summoner, druid, gunslinger or alchemist?
Organized Play isn't everybody's thing. Campaign management is dedicated to preserving the feel of the Golarion setting, and what you propose just isn't it.
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I think it would be interesting to shut down everything but the core races for six months-one year but keep two new-ish races available in boon format which get sent to some random game days and most conventions as GM rewards. Dhampirs were available in boons for awhile and then they stopped showing up in boon format. Now people are clamoring for them. I would like to see that much clamor for aasimar, tengu and tieflings again.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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How would you work that, Todd? Let's say that the ban goes down on January 1, 2015. On February 1, a player comes to your table with a 2nd-level aasimar skald. A lot of players don't show up with Chronicle sheets, and a lot of GMs don't bother including things on them like date played.
How can you determine whether or not the character was begun before the new year?
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A lot of players don't show up with Chronicle sheets,
Here's a pregen. Sorry, you need to bring your Chronicles. You think it sucks at 2nd level? Let me show you the pile of papers I have to haul to cons because apparently the exact duplicates I can show you on my iPad aren't good enough.
and a lot of GMs don't bother including things on them like date played.
Here's a pen.
(... I'm not actually the only person who goes back and fills out stuff like that on Chronicles where the GM didn't, am I?)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Patrick, that has been my answer, too. I've invited 4 out of 5 players at a table to go get pre-gens because either (in one case) they were playing aasimars /tieflings without any legal source, or (in another) they let Bozo #1 keep all of their Chronicles, and Bozo #1 had stopped keeping track of them some time previous.
But there are some con organizers who consider me a PITA because of it.
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I fill in stuff on signed Chronicles, too, even though, technically, I don't think the rules allow us to do so.
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Put another way, Todd's suggestion requires GMs to be more proactive in checking things they don't normally check, like the dates on the Chronicle sheets. Are people cool with that?
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Patrick, that has been my answer, too. I've invited 4 out of 5 players at a table to go get pre-gens because either (in one case) they were playing aasimars /tieflings without any legal source, or (in another) they let Bozo #1 keep all of their Chronicles, and Bozo #1 had stopped keeping track of them some time previous.
But there are some con organizers who consider me a PITA because of it.
I can see con organizers getting annoyed over audits, but saying, "Hi, please prove you are allowed to play that character" seems pretty reasonable to me. When I'm out with my Nagaji, I've had people say to me, "You have the boon for that, right?" And I say, "Yep, want to see it?" (That's usually good enough, but I'd have no problem producing it if asked.)
I fill in stuff on signed Chronicles, too, even though, technically, I don't think the rules allow us to do so.
*cough* I don't know what you're talking about. I've never done that. It's just that several of my previous GMs enjoy filling out some fields off-handed, in different-color ink ... and somehow all wind up with the same handwriting.
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. :D
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Put another way, Todd's suggestion requires GMs to be more proactive in checking things they don't normally check, like the dates on the Chronicle sheets. Are people cool with that?
I'm not actually good with Todd's suggestion, so no. ;p
But I feel like race boons are basically additional resources--if asked to produce it, you'd better be able to do so. If we limit races based on dates--which I have proposed, although I'd advocated opening more, not closing down ones we already have--producing a dated first chronicle would basically be producing a race boon, so hey.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Put another way, Todd's suggestion requires GMs to be more proactive in checking things they don't normally check, like the dates on the Chronicle sheets. Are people cool with that?
When I look at a player's chronicle, I look at all of it. The gold, fame, prestige, date, character #. All of that stuff.
I don't think that stating that because some GMs don't check the dates on sheets when they check sheets is any reason to disregard Todd's suggestion.
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Once you open the doors for something it is a big mess to close the doors.
I feel that if you stopped allowing certain races you will get a great deal of complaints about no longer being able to pla those races. I would agree that tiefling and assimar should not have been fully open. Tengu I do not see often enough to find an issue. I have been at several tables where I am the only non-assimar though.
The people askign for more will keep asking for more. So you do not solve that problem by allowing more stuff.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I fill in stuff on signed Chronicles, too, even though, technically, I don't think the rules allow us to do so.*cough* I don't know what you're talking about. I've never done that. It's just that several of my previous GMs enjoy filling out some fields off-handed, in different-color ink ... and somehow all wind up with the same handwriting.
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. :D
I get a Venture Officer to fill those fields in.
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Also I would like to point out that the vast majority of PFS players do not know about the auctions and do not care because big cons in the US are unreachable to them and thus things exclusive to Paizocon or Gencon are largely irrelevant to their PFS experience. The fact that someone at Gencon paid an outrageous amount of money to play a vanara is just not a compelling reason to take it off the table as a race option for everyone else, if only because that reason really does not square with the largely successful push over the last year or so to make things like race boons and con-exclusive specials relevant to the majority of players. Making sweeping rulings literally for the sake of three individual players is silly and counterproductive.I disagree. While the race boons went for a lot it was also to raise money for a charity and I know people spend more on things like these. Also the "big cons" in the us are not as expensive as you make them out to be if you are willing to do some research, maybe run some games and look for deals. There are some people that can afford to do non of these things and there are others I know personally that went to gencon that did it all for less than $300 last year because they were smart about how they did things.
I think that we have already been over the fact that for the increasing number of players outside the USA the big name cons are actually unreachable. That $300 is a great anecdote, but it would cost me about $2000 to go to Paizocon, so unless you want to buy me a plane ticket across the Pacific there is no way I am going to Paizocon or Gencon for the next four years at least. I do understand that my geographic location excludes me from a certain level of participation in the community and that is ok especially since the rest of the leadership has the perspective that you lack and has been trying to make more of the PFS experience relevant to players in my position. The point remains that most of the things that happen at Gen/Paizo-con are basically irrelevant to my PFS experiance.
I think the way races are done now is fine. The elemental boons have not been out for years. They were offered exclusively at gencon last year, then they were offered at gencon this year and now local conventions are now able to see these races. With online conventions, online game days (that I think have had boons) and the number of small conventions around the world there is really no excuse at this point. I would be in favor of getting rid of aasamir and tieflings to open up other races, but it shouldn't be the elemental races or if it was not until gencon next year to give the people that just got those boons a chance to play them. I would also be in favor of opening up race boons at certain gm star levels.
I actually do agree with you on this point. Between the push to give prize support to smaller events in traditionally overlooked places and especially the opening up of online events with boon support I think that the leadership has mostly solved the problems that boon distribution had before. The generosity of the community in the boon trading thread has largely made up for whatever shortfall remains. So as of this year I think that the way boons work is in a healthy place even without rotating the available races.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Ifrits can cast Enlarge Person on themselves as a spell-like ability. They're pretty amazing to see 'turn up the heat' during boss battles :)
Some ifrits inherit an efreeti ancestor's ability to magically change a creature's size. They can cast either enlarge person or reduce person (the ifrit chooses when using this ability) once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the ifrit's level). The ifrit can use this ability to affect other ifrits as though they were humanoid creatures. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
(Bold mine)
Not themselves, Andrei.
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I would like to see that much clamor for aasimar, tengu and tieflings again.
Why is this a good thing? People already have plenty of races to clamor over, so I think there needs to be en especially compelling reason to take something away from the player-base; a reason which does not exist here. Also all I ever see as the result of clamor is threads about race boons here on the forums that the mods have to threaten to lock when they get nasty as they inevitably do.
More specifically, the leadership has been doing a great job lately of trying to meaningfully extend the reach of PFS into lots of places traditionally underserved by the hobby. I think that opening up a few non-core races was part of this effort to make fewer things in PFS highly exclusive. Rolling back race choices completely would be a terrible idea because it works exactly counter to where PFS is trying to go, which is a good direction.
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So, Saint Caleth, I lack the perspective that the PFS leadership has? How did you come to this conclusion, because I know you are not in my area and have no idea what I do to help make boons and other things more accessible to my local players that cannot attend cons. Like giving away my personal boons that I earned to other people, or organizing a massive custom dice order for the VO's to give as rewards to their players. Please before you start making accusations about what you think I believe get your facts straight.
As to your response to Todd's post about why people clamoring for race boons is a good thing. If something is not rare or hard to get people will not see it as a reward and it looses its value. As with the opening up of those races we now see them everywhere, even more so in some regions where people create them not as a flavor choice but as a stat/superiority choice, which to me is a bad thing.
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Well, I guess I can understand wanting to keep races locked down for PFS. I just wish they had more boons available. :-(
Maybe they could offer up some online auctions for race boons? Then everyone could have a crack at bidding for one. AND helping raise money for charity. 'Cause we rock like that! Yay helping others! :-)
Just a thought...
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So, Saint Caleth, I lack the perspective that the PFS leadership has? How did you come to this conclusion, because I know you are not in my area and have no idea what I do to help make boons and other things more accessible to my local players that cannot attend cons. Like giving away my personal boons that I earned to other people, or organizing a massive custom dice order for the VO's to give as rewards to their players. Please before you start making accusations about what you think I believe get your facts straight.
Can you please keep this particular disagreement confined to the PMs you have already sent me. Thanks. I don't think it serves PFS in any way for you to take angry swipes at me in the open.
As to your response to Todd's post about why people clamoring for race boons is a good thing. If something is not rare or hard to get people will not see it as a reward and it looses its value. As with the opening up of those races we now see them everywhere, even more so in some regions where people create them not as a flavor choice but as a stat/superiority choice, which to me is a bad thing.
There are already races that serve as rare rewards. My question was why it would be a good thing to add exclusivity, especially at the cost of directly taking away character options from the players. Your dislike of people making character choices for mechanical concerns aside I don't see a reason to regress and roll back this particular change.
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i think unlocking should be as simple as buying the book.
it works for MMOS and their expansion packs
don't even restrict it to a boon per book. just treat each purchased physical book the player brings as unlimited access to that book. for example, advanced race guide opens up unrestricted access to the races and alternate racials in chapters 1-3 as well as a 12 point custom Race using the ARG.
this encourages revenue by encouraging players to buy the physical books rather than use PRD printouts to achieve their results
it also discourages extreme minmaxing by making players have to feel the extreme burden of their own books
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boons serve no purpose but to punish the players whom can't attend a Con for a variety of reasons. there are plenty of reasons we can't attend a con, and there are many gamers whom can't afford to devote the massive amount of income to buy race boons.
in fact, the restrictive nature is a Deterrent to new PFS players
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I say this as someone who has at least one aasimar, tiefling, and tengu characters. Personally I enjoy playing odd races, but there have been times where we have a single human at the table and 5 other 'freakish' races (pulling from our local player pool... cat-tiefling, tengu, goblin, half-orc, and maybe an elf; not all freakish, but still). It ends up feeling a bit odd to have so many oddball races smashed together into a group.
I kind of like the idea of making boons more accessible, or rotating which odd races are available.
That said, it's not a huge deal overall, and doesn't happen all the time here at least.
Adventurers are already a minority, it's not like PCs of freakish races have to represent any setting specific norm. in fact, the freaks are more likely to make up the significant lions share of adventurers among a what is already a minority profession to progression to begin with.
most humans and other core races wouldn't as often become adventurers because of the fact they have an easier time settling down in society. thus justifiying the massive volume of freak adventurers.