Goblin Squad Member
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From the latest screenshot, it looks to me like the armor worn by the characters is set up in a way that might allow for easy customization of the colours.
- Will players be able to change the colours of their gear?
If so,
- Will this be possible only during the crafting of items or can colour be customized "at any time" using dyes?
- Will dyes be for use on one item only or will they permanently unlock new colours (as in GW2)?
- Will only clothes and armour be dyeable or can you also change the colour of hand-held items such as weapons?
Great question. And what about guild emblems ala DAoC?
Like so: http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2011/07/daoc-su2003.jpg
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Goblin Squad Member
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For bullet three, I don't think it likely that unlocking colors does so permanently; that would take a commodity out of the market for no reason.
If dyeing does come about at some point (because I doubt that's part of their Minimum Viable Product), I hope the market lets you sort by main color and possibly detail color, and allows you to put "don't care" and "none" as a color for either of those. So if you only care for your coin, you go for undyed or unpopular colors (whatever shows up cheapest in the "don't care" option), but if you want to look snazzy you can easily get a matching armor set.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If dyeing does come about at some point (because I doubt that's part of their Minimum Viable Product), I hope the market lets you sort by main color and possibly detail color, and allows you to put "don't care" and "none" as a color for either of those.
Idea: Maybe better gear might have more color slots, if the crafter chooses to make it that way. So a very basic cloak can be one color, a better cloak can have a main + detail color, and even better cloak could have 3 different colors, etc.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Our armor includes sections with dynamic color (I believe there are up to two different colors on a single armor possible based on the channels we have available on the armor textures). We're expecting those to be something that crafters can set when making an item (likely by adding dye items to by consumed by the recipe). You may also be able to redye those sections with dye kits (depending less on tech and more whether we want to leave that as a perk of crafters). We're looking into whether we can override those colors temporarily with your company or settlement colors when you're at war or for other group-intensive situations.
Other items may be dynamically colorable on a case by case basis; we're still looking into it.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Frankly, I don't like the idea of magically changing color schemes to indicate affiliation. (Mundane color changes are no problem).
As a later goal, doubleplus cheap tabards that display one's personal, unit, and/or army crest or coat of arms would be vastly superior to a handwaved recolor of armor based on current affiliation (and could be equally susceptible to impersonation)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really like the idea of any group "flying their colors" at any time they feel it appropriate. There have been many, many organization that have colors. All schools and universities at every level, every sports team, every group that wants to identify with a project (Brest cancer took over pink, for instance). Marks of heraldry should, I hope become a feature and flags and banners could be customized for tapestries, carpets, battle flags, marks of heraldry on uniforms.
The evil cousin of these marks and banners are makers marks on crafted items. I nifty logo or icon will eventually associated with well crafted items. I think these should be a go....but not sure what's involved.
Finally, having coordinated group colors and uniforms would look really great in even a small group setting (Three Musketeers?) but in a large battle formation with hundreds of Soldiers lined up ready for mass combat would be totally badass.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally don't like having every crafted item say "Crafted by X" at the bottom, or having a person's logo on it. While that's nice for making a player feel accomplished when a lot of people are wearing their stuff, and it helps identify quality products, it also would obliterate my chances of buying from one side of a war and selling that product to the other, which I really want to do, because I have that kind of sense of humor.
It would also likely mean that all papers written on get such a stamp, which eliminates any fun that can be had with forgeries and anonymous notes/calling cards.
I'd rather we didn't know who crafted a particular item. It shouldn't be hard to identify it's a high quality product, as you should be able to see its keywords and stats.
Besides this point though, I agree with Hardin here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...do not waste any more time on this...
What does discussion hurt? In many threads we're discussing things much further afield than this without similar requests; please skip this thread while we continue.
"I've never seen, heard, nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about. Hell yes, I'm for debating anything!"
- Stephen Hopkins (1776)
As far as guild emblems, the tabbard thing can definitely work, but what DAoC did is only allowed guild emblems on cloaks and shields (as you saw in the image above). So no weapons or pieces of armor (though armor was still dye-able with basic colors).
This made it so you could rock your emblem on your back and/or shield, and set up the rest of your armor in whatever color scheme you wanted... such as matching the color-scheme of your emblem, but with solid colors.
Cloaks and shields were for the actual PC's, though, if the guild held a keep, then the guards would have the emblem on THEIR cloaks/shields as well. They were also streaming down the keeps themselves.
Later, when they added player housing, you could have them in/on your house, as well as streaming down your mount when they added mounts to the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OMG
For the love of god do not waste any more time on this till the game is in OE.
This is actually a lot more than fluff. When you are in the middle of a raging battle you probably don't have time to mouse over each character to determine friend from foe and even little floating tags above your allies heads like in Unholy Wars are harder to spot at a glance then a uniform with bold colors.
It's very nice to know whether you should shoot that guy running toward you or not at a glance.
Of course some groups will purposely copy uniforms to create confusion but that's all part of the sandbox experience.
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Goblin Squad Member
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However can companies own colors, prohibiting to others?
they can make a public policy of killing anyone "impersonating" them by wearing their colours. They would have to face the consequences though.
I'm sure there will be your typical mmo indicators, so if someone hostile is dressing up like your company it should be easy enough to spot if you actually target them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Our armor includes sections with dynamic color (I believe there are up to two different colors on a single armor possible based on the channels we have available on the armor textures). We're expecting those to be something that crafters can set when making an item (likely by adding dye items to by consumed by the recipe). You may also be able to redye those sections with dye kits (depending less on tech and more whether we want to leave that as a perk of crafters). We're looking into whether we can override those colors temporarily with your company or settlement colors when you're at war or for other group-intensive situations.
Other items may be dynamically colorable on a case by case basis; we're still looking into it.
Sounds like you've got this one in the bag already, thanks for letting us know!
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I might like to see some colors of dye have only one source that can be monopolized; that dye could then be used by the controlling agency in uniforms to make it harder to impersonate them.
Said colors would probably be the most bold, creating a market of people who want it for decorative purposes in addition to a potential market of people who want to make copycat uniforms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the idea of having an 'insta-tabard and shield cover' for when you get stuck into battles. The idea of having a separate tabard and shield cover that you can click to apply is not a bad one, but would mean carrying something around that would be rarely used and might get lost/stolen.
Having said which, it would be a bit tricky to infiltrate an opposition headquarters if you were wearing the enemy emblems. Maybe have an 'opt-in' system to the insta-tabard? Physically stealing enemy tabards sounds a good idea but would lead to chaos, and would require the tabards to be separately stored items (as above). Maybe a Disguise skill roll could simply replicate the enemy tabard design temporarily for that character?
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Goblin Squad Member
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However can companies own colors, prohibiting to others?
they can make a public policy of killing anyone "impersonating" them by wearing their colours. They would have to face the consequences though.
I'm sure there will be your typical mmo indicators, so if someone hostile is dressing up like your company it should be easy enough to spot if you actually target them.
Given Ryan's previous statements about attempts to deceive, I would expect repeated use of enemy colors might be considered "griefing" and handled by the mods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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OMG
For the love of god do not waste any more time on this till the game is in OE.
Dude. This is cool stuff. Way more fun that being a cheese bandit.
The Devs do not need to waste their time on it... If you want to discuss it I could care less...
But before OE, this should not even be coded into the game, they have alot to do and this kind of crap can wait.
Oh and Hardin, are you in TEO? If you are not then please join them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
...The Devs do not need to waste their time on it... If you want to discuss it I could care less...
Like you, Xeen, I could care less about having the ability to dye my character's armor though it seems it would be a good thing. Indeed I had not even glanced at this thread until you mentioned it in that other thread where you characterized crowdforging as ignorant.
However, I wish to urge that we use the forums as our suggestion box and presume that the developer is fully competent to prioritize for themselves. These forums are understood as different from a control interface by nearly everyone here. It is odd that you have this evident belief to the contrary.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Where exactly did I characterize crowdforging as ignorant?
What I characterize as ignorant, is asking for stuff that does not mean anything for the game in EE.
Dyeing and proper loot drops is a good thing for OE, but I think the gaming group here is mature enough as gamers to handle a bear dropping gold for EE. And dying armor is cosmetic junk that is on the same level.
All that is for OE, when GW will want to get the masses into the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is not ignorant for the developers to provide for futures now, even though the future is still just a potential. The ability to add a relating field in a database as complex as will be required for a game of this kind is something to go carefully about now, in the design phase, and could be impractical to add once the game is in play. Why else on earth would they already have dedicated so much time to such game elements as 'escalations'?
In short, unless we are fully informed we are necessarily ignorant no matter what we think we know, what we have imagined, or what we wish might be. The best we can do is dream, and having dreamt: Speak.
Not shut up because someone who knows only approximately as much as we collectively do imagines he knows better.
Allow the developers to manage their project, please. You do not have that authority.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They will have no problems adding things to the game later on. They have that as the plan for PFO... Develop the game as it is being (pun intended lol) played.
I have as much authority as you to make suggestions. Which is none. So you suggest it, and I suggest not to... Same thing.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Given Ryan's previous statements about attempts to deceive, I would expect repeated use of enemy colors might be considered "griefing" and handled by the mods.However can companies own colors, prohibiting to others?
they can make a public policy of killing anyone "impersonating" them by wearing their colours. They would have to face the consequences though.
I'm sure there will be your typical mmo indicators, so if someone hostile is dressing up like your company it should be easy enough to spot if you actually target them.
That seems excessive to me, and it goes against meaningful payer interaction, particularly if the armor colors persist after looting. If I can get my hands on enemy dye or armor, why shouldn't I use it in interesting ways? There's a huge difference between that and having a character named 'Nihimon Vhane'SyIvan'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would assume there is a reason they apparently consider this to be part of MVP, and I'm guessing that goes a lot deeper than the fact that uniforms are a lot more than "cosmetic" or "fluff" in the middle of a raging battle.
My guess is that they don't want to build a bunch of non-dyeable armor sets that they'll have to come back and fix if they decide to add dye. It's probably very helpful to design them knowing which sections are dyeable and having the chance to see how they look when you switch the colors up.
It is probably a "we can take 10 hours to do it now or 100 hours down the road" kind of thing.
Given Ryan's previous statements about attempts to deceive, I would expect repeated use of enemy colors might be considered "griefing" and handled by the mods.
Adjective...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know how we are going to define griefing, but I think a fundamental part of it must be the stopping of another player from playing the game in the way they want to - in short, the taking away of other player choice, within certain limits.
I can't conceive of a case where wearing dyed items similar in design to Pax's, TEO's, T7V's or UNC's (for example) would diminish another player's choice, or their ability to somehow play the game. If anyone can, I'd be interested to hear it. As such, I'm afraid I have to agree with Areks - in fact, such behaviour is likely to lead to the development of all sorts of ruses and strategems that will enrich PfO game-play.
By the way, generally, when you disagree with a point, it's a good idea to say why. One word responses don't add anything except animosity.
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Goblin Squad Member
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By the way, generally, when you disagree with a point, it's a good idea to say why. One word responses don't add anything except animosity.
Point taken...
I find it tedious to read all of these claims of potential griefing, over the most minor of activities. I'm beginning to wonder if Nihimon can find griefing by someone changing their avatar?
I'd be willing to bet if I changed mine to his, he probably would. I'll resist the temptation and just do this... /smurf
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Goblin Squad Member
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Given Ryan's previous statements about attempts to deceive, I would expect repeated use of enemy colors might be considered "griefing" and handled by the mods.However can companies own colors, prohibiting to others?
they can make a public policy of killing anyone "impersonating" them by wearing their colours. They would have to face the consequences though.
I'm sure there will be your typical mmo indicators, so if someone hostile is dressing up like your company it should be easy enough to spot if you actually target them.
If GW considers wearing the same colors as another group griefing... nm, words can't even express the idiocy of a move like that. There are only so many colors and combinations of colors in the world, more than one group *will* have the same colors, regardless of the intent.
To top it off, I'll use a historical reference, since folks on these boards think that RL = a game world. Privateers flew enemy colors *all the time* back in the Age of Sail. I don't think the Spanish called the British griefers or yelled "OMG HAX" at them, it was likely more along the lines of "Son of a ****, GG Brits, GG."
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Goblin Squad Member
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...back in the Age of Sail.
You've reminded me it's time to re-read Patrick O'Brian. The Aubrey-Maturin series is well worth its time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...back in the Age of Sail.You've reminded me it's time to re-read Patrick O'Brian. The Aubrey-Maturin series is well worth its time.
A friend of mine actually gave he the whole set a few months back. I haven't started reading them, just yet, but I'm really looking forward to them. I really enjoyed Master & Commander, and books are always better than movies, so woo.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Be kind to yourself: An Aubrey-Maturin Lexicon will help immeasurably at the beginning, before you get used to all the historically accurate terminology and references. The books're exhaustively researched, and much of the naval language sees scant use today.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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To top it off, I'll use a historical reference, since folks on these boards think that RL = a game world. Privateers flew enemy colors *all the time* back in the Age of Sail. I don't think the Spanish called the British griefers or yelled "OMG HAX" at them, it was likely more along the lines of "Son of a ****, GG Brits, GG."
Privateers were required by their letters of marque and reprisal to fly the colors of their sponsoring nation. If they were flying the colors of some other nation, they were engaged in piracy. The distinction is not subtle- a captured privateer is a prisoner of war, while a captured pirate is a criminal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Given Ryan's previous statements about attempts to deceive, I would expect repeated use of enemy colors might be considered "griefing" and handled by the mods.However can companies own colors, prohibiting to others?
they can make a public policy of killing anyone "impersonating" them by wearing their colours. They would have to face the consequences though.
I'm sure there will be your typical mmo indicators, so if someone hostile is dressing up like your company it should be easy enough to spot if you actually target them.
I would actually prefer not. I hope when they talk about attempts to deceive being considered griefing they are talking about scamming people, not trickery on the battlefield.
Otherwise both sides in this conflict would be griefers. Sorry that I couldn't find the English version.
I realize wearing the other side's uniform is a bit higher of a form of deceit, but I think it all falls into the same general category.