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So I've got a player who wants to be a Synthesist summoner, but without spells. I'm okay with this, but what should I replace the spells with? They said they'd like to be able to heal the Eidolon normally and be immune to Banishment/Dismissal. I okayed the former, and am thinking of denying the latter (since I won't throw that spell constantly at them, but want it to make an impact when it does happen), and suggested also full BAB, but just that doesn't seem to be enough to make up for the lack of casting, which is a huge deal for the Synthesist.
So my question, do you guys have any further suggestions on what to trade for spellcasting as a Synthesist?
What form does he want? If it' snot Biped, he'd need to take Limbs(arms) to cast spells while in the Eidolon anyway.
Instead of Summon Monster as an SLA, give him Rejuvenate Eidolon instead. Lesser at first level, regular at seventh, and Greater at fifteenth.
Don't give him full BAB. He'll do just fine without it.
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What form does he want? If it' snot Biped, he'd need to take Limbs(arms) to cast spells while in the Eidolon anyway.
Not sure how that's relevant...
Don't give him full BAB. He'll do just fine without it.
...Just an SLA doesn't make up for losing all your spellcasting. I don't think full BAB is a big deal for someone who's completely melee-focused, as he's going to be.
If he's going melee focused like this it sounds like he intends to take all the natural attacks he can. In which case thats exactly why you shouldn't give him full BAB. Thats effectively a 25% increase in his chance to hit. Missing some attacks is one of the few things that keeps eidolon's power in check.
I would suggest if he doesn't want to use spell casting then he can play a different class.
What form does he want? If it' snot Biped, he'd need to take Limbs(arms) to cast spells while in the Eidolon anyway.Not sure how that's relevant...
Its relevant because if he doesn't take that evolution he couldn't cast spells while merged with his eidolon in the first place. Which means hes gaining powers that would normally be restricted.
Claxon has the right of it. Synthesists can be melee monsters without a full base attack bonus.
The base form is also important because only Quadrapeds can take Pounce, hands down the best evolution for melee.
Rather than full BAB what about a Combat Style like the Ranger?
Otherwise consider that spells don't have to be purely combat power. What about something useful outside of battle such as bumping him to 4 + INT skill points and/or the ability to temporarily suppress the eidolon for 3 + lvl minutes per day to let him have some normal face to face interaction. With physical stats being less important due to the synthesism some face power might be good. People really shouldn't interact normally with the sort of creature he becomes when merged.
If he can heal the form normally, pehaps simply trombone the spells and the summon monster spell like, is a good way to balance it.
This is what i have been thinking of doing in my game.
I your game have other folks that want to hit stuff i strongly advice against fovsing him full bab.
Try building a few eidelons and look at what they can do:) and good luck with your game.
If he can heal the form normally, pehaps simply trombone the spells and the summon monster spell like, is a good way to balance it.
This is what i have been thinking of doing in my game.I your game have other folks that want to hit stuff i strongly advice against fovsing him full bab.
Try building a few eidelons and look at what they can do:) and good luck with your game.
Hmm that excellent post was ruined by my phone and me. Sorry if it dosent seem like everybody agree with me i may re post when i get of work.
Alternatively he could just play an unbound eidolon who is APL+2.
Why APL+2
The summoner and eidolon are essentially 2 creatures, and 2 creatures is CR+2, so you could argue that the summoner without summons or eidolons is equal to levels-2(-2 extra negatives from NPC classes), and that the Eidolon without a master is a monster equal to APL-2 due to not having the summoner.
There is also the aspect that the Eidolon is trash compared to full bab classes with a template.
You could try this:
The eidolon is unbound, it takes NPC class levels for its HD, Bab, saves, and skills, but its evolution points are based on its HD, its evolutions cap at 15 as normal. So at level 15 the Eidolon will have the evolutions and max attacks of a level 20 eidolon, but will have the abilities of the NPC class. Anything that requires a summoner level use the Eidolon's HD instead since it gets full progression.
I cannot stress this enough, however, ONLY LET THE EIDOLON TAKE NPC LEVELS! This will balance out that it is in essence a super race that can change its self.
E.G.
5 Warrior Eidolon:
HP 34+[con*hd](10+6+6+6+6+[con*hd])
Fort +4+[con]
Ref +1+[dex]
Will +1+[wis]
BAB +5
Proficient with all armors and weapons, EXCEPTION: The eidolon can wear armor, use shields, and weapons. However, eventually the innate armor bonus outshines even full-plate+5.
Feat progression is by class HD, not the eidolon list.
The Eidolon gains the Armor bonus, evolution points, Dex/Str bonus, evolution points, max attacks, and Special where applicable from the eidolon list based on HD. IF YOU DO NOT LIMIT MAX ATTACKS HE'LL STACK NATURAL ATTACKS, and roll like 10-26+ natural attacks per round. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. With multi-attack that is VERY GOOD.
ATTRIBUTES:
use the Eidolon base forms, do NOT roll or use point buy. These are in essence improved NPC statistics. Do not allow the Eidolon to change its base form once chosen.
Your discretion as to if the Eidolon character can reassign evolution points each level. If you do then don't worry, if you do not allow this then allow the eidolon character to "save" evolution points for next level so he isn't stuck with evolutions that he didn't want just because he had to use his un-refundable points.
Keep in mind this is the breakdown:
For heroic PCs their CR is = to their class levels. If you give them NPC gold (from level 2 and on) then their CR drops by 1 since gold matters that much.
For the eidolon it should only use NPC class levels because
CR +1: It is essentially playing an extremely powerful race.
CR -2: NPC class levels only
CR +1: Player gold
so it boils down to the Eidolon being, in essence, equal to the heroic PCs of standard races.
I fully expect the Eidolon to be built to maximize the amount of claw attacks it can have. Level 1 will probably be Quad or Humanoid with Bite or quad with Limbs (arms) + claws.
You can quite literally make anything here, and for less of a price than other standard races to achieve the same goal.
Another option to consider would be Epic Meepo's Aspect Armiger fighter archetype. Healing is not an issue because the eidolon armor cannot be damaged, and the only way to banish or dismiss the armor against the wearer's will is to make its wearer lose consciousness for three rounds. The armor bonus of the eidolon armor scales with level, and he does not get any actual evolution points until 5th level.
If you go with the unbound eidolon idea then let me know how it works out. If you go with straight Eidolon with no class levels then have it be two "summoner" levels ahead of the party on the eidolon chart.
If you go with the NPC class levels then have it be the same level as the party, and then just go by HD.
[ . . . ]Obviously did not bother to even read the first post.
Hmm, quite, quite, yes. *adjusts monocle*