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5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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So 3 Kitsune feats have the following little blurb:
Quote: Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat. Questions time!
1.)Could the Kitsune select these feats instead of the "bonus feats" class feature the Monk gets?
I'll go ahead and assume yes. Seems to be both RAI and RAW.
2.)Could the Kitsune do this even if she does not qualify for these feats yet?
The monk does not need to qualify for these bonus feats to select them, so at first glance, this could work. Not sure if RAW and probably not RAI, but certainly interesting to ponder on.
3.)Could the Kitsune "trade away" Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist (if she qualifies for the feats)?
They are feats the Monk (who is a kitsune) gets. Sounds solid by RAW, but possibly not RAI.
Consider this a thought experiment. Feel free to express your opinions, but please back them with FAQs or rule texts.
wanted to come in screaming "no, wrong, bad", but the more i think about it the more this intrigues me
dot
1) this Is unclear likely poorly worded but likely not a big deal.
2) no even if 1 is allowed the kitsune fears are not monk feats.
3) no your not gaining feats so much as class features that are feats.
Allowing even class bonus fests to qualify is probably generous but fits the wording implying you can trade out class features is going past any reasonable interpetation.
What other point would "Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat." have if it is not referring to bonus feats from class abilities? I'm interested in your thought process here.
Also, from Monk class
Quote: ...
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.
...
At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
So they are Bonus Feats at the very least.
I suspect that the intention was for those to only be the regular, free, gained-at-odd-levels feats, but the RAW definitely says otherwise.
And it's a shame Magical Tail doesn't have that text.
That is a fascinating question. I would have thought it just applied to normal feats, but then, why mention it?
Possible answer: Because it's kitsune-only, so only kitsunes may take it.
It would make no sense to mention it, if it was referring to the normal feats gained every odd level.
Hmm. This is really interesting. The wording isn't present in any of the feats listed for Kitsune in ARG. But it is present for Fox Shape.
Conclusion: The feats which contain this language are intentionally distinct from other feats, which merely list kitsune as a prerequisite, and are intended to be available as replacements for any feats, including bonus feats. So, for instance, a kitsune wizard could take one instead of Scribe Scroll.
I was on my phone when i wrote m first post.
I dont know whether the wording was accidental or deliberate, and honestly dont really see a big power issue if say fighter feats or monk feats are used for the kitsune feats.
What I was trying to express is that, assuming you accept the intent that anytime you get a feat a Kitsune bonus feat can be taken; this does not mean exceptions given to those specific bonus feats are applied.
Ie, If you use monk bonus feats to get the Kitsune feats the stipulation for monk feats that you can ignore prerequisites does not apply. Because at the end of the day Kitsune feats are not monk bonus feats.
Ie no taking the fox pounce feat as a kitsune with a single level of monk dip.
blackbloodtroll wrote: It would make no sense to mention it, if it was referring to the normal feats gained every odd level.
There are lots of redundant sections in the rules; this could simply be another one.
This would be a very odd place to put such a reminder, if that is all it is.
blackbloodtroll wrote: This would be a very odd place to put such a reminder, if that is all it is. Agreed, but I doubt it'd be the first time.
I would agree, this wouldn't let you bypass the requirements for the kitsune feats by taking monk (or ranger) levels.
Even besides passing the restrictions, if 1 and 3 are correct (and unlike forgoing prereqs, I don't see why they wouldn't be) you could get all 3 for 1 level of monk. Some melee DEX-CHA Kitsune build could make good use of it, just taking a level of monk at lvl11 for Flurry (possibly Maneuver flurry), all good saves, fox form, swift shapechange and vulpine pounce.
Bump again. Gimme dem FAQs!
3 is a com0letely unreasonable expectation. When you get a new class the feats you are given are not bonus feats nore are they optional. As i said previo justly i think it is unlikely but not game break8ng that 1 was intended.
None of those feats actually have that "Special" line.
Rather, the line "A kitsune may select from the following feats any time she would gain a feat." is listed at the top of the sidebar where the feats are introduced ("Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer", page 5).
This makes it read very much like a simple reminder, and not at all like something unique to those feats.
Are wrote: None of those feats actually have that "Special" line.
Rather, the line "A kitsune may select from the following feats any time she would gain a feat." is listed at the top of the sidebar where the feats are introduced ("Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer", page 5).
This makes it read very much like a simple reminder, and not at all like something unique to those feats.
Oh, that's interesting! Nevermind, then. I guess this is a case where the conversion from the book to the SRD text lost data.
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