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I gotta admit, I think the threads about crazy high milk-drinkers are a bit more entertaining...
We get high and drink milk when we play, too. Crazy? Well, that's subjective...
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In our group several people rotate from being players to being GM. The group's been basically the same people since we started nearly 20 years ago. They're a great group of people. They're smart, funny, kind and generous. We just "get" each other. I always look forward to getting together and I miss it when we have to postpone a game.
I may complain occasionally about certain things they do, but I'm still playing with them after all this time, and that's not just inertia or lack of gaming groups in my area. I think I'd be hard pressed to find another group I'd feel as relaxed with.
There may be things about the rules that I wish were different, but none of them make me feel like I can't stand to use those rules anymore. I've never played a set of rules that I hated. I've played all sorts of different rules systems over the years, but if I had to choose a favorite comfy system, it would be Pathfinder.
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Our group is solid...We rotate GMs frequently and occasionally play something other than Pathfinder.
For example, we'll breaking in a new GM and a new game soon when my wife starts running Numenera which will happen sometime after I've finished running the last chapter of Runelords and one of our other GM's runs the next chapter of Council of Thieves. Then We'll be back for another chapter of Carrion Crown with different GM before I have to begin running Skull and Shackles.
Our campaigns do drag out a bit as a result but no one gets burnt out from sitting in the GM's chair and we can try out different character options without breaking up a particular storyline.
We get high and drink milk when we play, too. Crazy? Well, that's subjective...
Oh, I have to add that with the older of the two groups I play in... we drink. Usually a couple of six packs of beer and maybe a bit of mead, wine, or Irish whiskey or Scotch whisky (notice the lack of an e in the latter one that denotes the general cheapness of distilleries in certain parts of the world).
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Considering how often (too often) all we see are complaints for whatever reason. I sometimes wonder if people playing the game enjoy it. Or do it out of some sort of geek obligation. Its pretty telling when the negative threads outnumber the postive ones. Then of course we have those who want to hear from both sides on topic who have already picked a side. Posting only to say that those who dont agree with them are wrong. As well as for some sort of validation. While in reality just want a echo chamber instead of a serious discussion.
My DM is awesome (mostly because I am the DM), my players are awesome (that is, they are awesome people, they're terrible players--we've never gotten above 10th level; TPKs by 6th level are much more typical), and the rules work for us. Mostly because we can never remember what they are and make them up as we go.
Sounds pretty much identical to us. :)
My DM is awesome (mostly because I am the DM), my players are awesome (that is, they are awesome people, they're terrible players--we've never gotten above 10th level; TPKs by 6th level are much more typical), and the rules work for us. Mostly because we can never remember what they are and make them up as we go.
For me, this pretty much sums up the essence of what makes RPGs a fantastic hobby. In a traditional game you'd care far more about what the rulebook said. I'm pretty certain the cooperative vs competitive aspect contributes a lot here - by not having the need to "win" you can sit back and just enjoy what happens, and can look back later at a good few hours of stress-free fun.
I had one bad GM experience, but to be fair it was mostly his non-player attitude and actions that made playing with him unbearable. Beyond that, I can think of only 2 sessions that were heated enough that someone had to leave for a few minutes and cool off.
Fake, I would not have posted this message in response to troubled players legitimately and sincerely seeking help to improve their games.
There are currently three active threads and dozens of inactive ones that seek no help, but instead just rant and rave about how horrible GMs are or how entitled players are. And when people try to provide suggestions or advice, they get steamrolled over with condescension and snark by the ones whining about how terrible it is to game with their group.
Sure, if people are sincerely and legitimately seeking help and advice, I'm fine with that. But this ceaseless need to vent and rant without any desire to actually do anything about it is what I'm talking about.
I agree with you, and although I've posted in the "worst thing the GM has done to you" thread, nevertheless I've never ceased to have fun with my main gaming group (yes, I play twice a week with differents groups). When awful things happens (being me the GM or another) we have learned to take it lightly, and it ends becoming a new recurring joke or anecdote.
my problem when i DM
is, i can't say no
Either i am too hard
or everything is too easy
i haven't found that middleground
i tend to exploit templates in monster design, and have no issues with using overpowered 3rd party templates
one of my rulings
is i don't give extra Rewards if the monster is overequipped, in fact, i don't use XP
if a monster is drastically overequipped, i assume their equipment is sufficient a reward for defeating them
in fact, overequipping monsters, is how i include that weapon the martial PC wants so badly
i also allow weapon and armor resizings for size category difference squared, x100 gold pieces
a fine PC wants a collossal weapon resized downward?
someone with craft magic arms and armor. could resize the weapon for 6,400 gold and an 8 hour ritual
Huge PC wants a medium weapon resized upward?
someone with craft magic arms and armor, could resize the weapon for 400 gold and an 8 hour ritual
this 100X size difference squared is the cost in components, and applies to armor and other items too, i usually don't factor it in market price, just supply your own components and a worthwhile item of similar value to trade, whether material, like a rare gem, or intangible like information
Based on the numerous and ever-growing list of threads dedicated to laying out in exquisite detail exactly what makes some gamers miserable, I find myself wondering why many of these people play this game.
Threads full of "my GM is an ass" or "I can't get along with player X" or "the new errata breaks my super awesomeness" or "why don't my players appreciate me?" are just a constant source of amazement for me.
I find myself wondering if those folks who are constantly posting messages about how this, that or the other thing ruins their gaming have any other activities they participate in, and if they have the same general reaction to those activities.
I feel like I should give my gaming group some sort of "super awesome gamers" award or something, since we seem to be able to play together for years at a time without altercations breaking out, people tossing their dice or individuals tossed unceremoniously out into the snow.
I would love to hear from other people whose gaming experience is more like mine, instead of the constant whining about how their games are miserable.
How many of you have gamed for months and months without the slightest problem, argument or string of personal insults being flung back and forth across your table?
My latest group is great. They just cleared the second large area of this world last Friday. They have fun, offer thanks and praise when it is challenging or a blast, get along really well and joke around. My latest group is all female (so it turned out when I went looking for players) and this has got me thinking about gaming and groups, when it has for so long been a boys game.
Amongst my female players, I've noticed a lot less of the need for power (unlimited power!) to show up others or to be the biggest baddest lone wolf too good to cooperate with others. Those problems are things I've seen before in more male dominated groups, where any female member is rendered quite secondary to the bossy males.
Things have not always been so rosy with people I have dmed before or played with. This however, is going great.
As for rules, I think PF rules are a bit rubbish and in a need of a good solid editing and streamlining. The expanding sludge that comes out with every new book is not balanced, but that is always how the cookie crumbles even back in 3.5.
So we play fantasy with simpler rules, and it rocks.
my problem when i DM
is, i can't say no
Either i am too hard
or everything is too easy
i haven't found that middleground
i tend to exploit templates in monster design, and have no issues with using overpowered 3rd party templates
one of my rulings
is i don't give extra Rewards if the monster is overequipped, in fact, i don't use XP
if a monster is drastically overequipped, i assume their equipment is sufficient a reward for defeating them
in fact, overequipping monsters, is how i include that weapon the martial PC wants so badly
i also allow weapon and armor resizings for size category difference squared, x100 gold pieces
a fine PC wants a collossal weapon resized downward?
someone with craft magic arms and armor. could resize the weapon for 6,400 gold and an 8 hour ritual
Huge PC wants a medium weapon resized upward?
someone with craft magic arms and armor, could resize the weapon for 400 gold and an 8 hour ritual
this 100X size difference squared is the cost in components, and applies to armor and other items too, i usually don't factor it in market price, just supply your own components and a worthwhile item of similar value to trade, whether material, like a rare gem, or intangible like information
Make some levels of dungeons a lot harder than others. Use traps a lot more, but also make safe areas, people they can trust and easy dungeons or levels. Not everything has to be to the death, but adventuring should be challenging.
Also set up situations where if they act fast, it is easy, if they dawdle or get caught up, they will suffer. Think water, traps, reinforcements, choke points and skirmishing suited to the enemies.
Then if they do well, give the intel of how it could have gone badly. If it goes badly, tell them how it could have gone better.
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I had dropped out of the RPG world for a couple decades, and then got back into it about 4 years ago when a group of 9 students (I'm a college prof) stumbled into the info that I used to play D&D and got me to agree to DM for them (which is a story in itself). I ran them through a version of Shackled City in 3.5, radically shortened so we could get them through the Fiery Sanctum and save Cauldron before they graduated. (We wrapped on their graduation week.) Since then, most of them have stayed in the area, so I've moved them to Pathfinder and am running them through Kingmaker (they're finishing Chapter 1 now.) AND, to my great delight, one of my students/players has become quite an accomplished DM in his own right, and I'm now getting to play as a player in his RotR campaign on Roll20. I'm having a blast. Maybe it's because I sort of trained them into the game, so their expectations have been shaped by me, but we get along beautifully, and I don't think we've ever had a serious blow-up. (A couple tears when characters died for the first time, but then, they still talk about those encounters years later. And they learned a healthy respect for dragons. I think it still bugs them that that one is still out there somewhere.)
Anyhow, I'm really glad I started playing again, love 3.5/PF, and am grateful for the way it's helped turn 9 students into friends that I enjoy hanging out with long after they've gone on to greater things. I even got to officiate at one of their weddings this summer! :-)
The only problem I have with my group, good friends all, is that we begins too much campaigns, so we finish few. Some rules problems, but few. Pathfinder works great for us, but I like more L5R and miss some OWoD crazy stuff.
Sadly, some schedules' job those lasts weeks. Hope it will finish soon.
Personally, I think many of the problems that show those messageboards are basically for long established groups. When new people meet to play, different play-styles clash. That, and people talk more about problems that about things going well. Specially on the web.
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How many of you have gamed for months and months without the slightest problem, argument or string of personal insults being flung back and forth across your table?
Years. And years. And years. (Well, apart from the personal insults, which are part-and-parcel of this particular group of friends. They are flung with gusto!)
Good friends, smooth-running game, and our preferences all align. I don't even remember the last time we even had a hint of trouble. And never, in all our years of playing, has there even been a single instance of anger, much less a ragequit.
Our group is currently in our 21st year.
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Personally, I think many of the problems that show those messageboards are basically for long established groups. When new people meet to play, different play-styles clash. That, and people talk more about problems that about things going well. Specially on the web.
Also, I'm still waiting for a thread that starts:
"The GM made this decision that annoyed me. With time to reflect, I believe they did the right thing and I was actually wrong."
Why would I ever admit that?
Well, obviously I was talking about the non-TOZ population of the board ;)
Personally, I think many of the problems that show those messageboards are basically for long established groups. When new people meet to play, different play-styles clash. That, and people talk more about problems that about things going well. Specially on the web.Also, I'm still waiting for a thread that starts:
"The GM made this decision that annoyed me. With time to reflect, I believe they did the right thing and I was actually wrong."
Agh, that should read "many of the problems... are basically for NEW groups. My sorry.
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Considering how often (too often) all we see are complaints for whatever reason. I sometimes wonder if people playing the game enjoy it. Or do it out of some sort of geek obligation. Its pretty telling when the negative threads outnumber the postive ones. Then of course we have those who want to hear from both sides on topic who have already picked a side. Posting only to say that those who dont agree with them are wrong. As well as for some sort of validation. While in reality just want a echo chamber instead of a serious discussion.
People in general like to complain more than they like to praise. That's why news reports are usually about disasters and wars, and no one reports that "Today in Chicago everyone was happy and nothing happened".
I know I get sucked in by those "My GM is terrible!" threads myself. But really, I've never had an experience with a truly awful GM or player.
But really, I've never had an experience with a truly awful GM or player.You are a lucky soul.
I wonder what the actual numbers are. I am like Elf, I have never had a really bad experience with a player or GM. All I have had were mild annoyances about playstyle or commitment. I've only seen one character sheet ripped in half in my entire gaming career, and I am ashamed to admit that one time was me, in my first game long, long ago.
Well, I had no real complaints about my Rise of the Runelords group. I've been gaming with all of them for at least five years-- some of them for as long as 20! In fact, my only complaint is that we're currently on hiatus through the end of the year. Three of my five players got too crazy-busy to be able game on any regular basis, and we just can't seem to synch up our schedules even for irregular sessions.
One of my players started up a monthly Skull & Shackles game, and I'm playing in that one currently. He actually had been the primary GM of our gaming group for years. (I took over in 2011 because he was starting to feel burned out.) We have one of our Runelords players in the new group, plus three other gamers we've known for years. We have all gamed with extensively in the past. It's actually pretty great to game with them agian! (Last game I played with them was an Amber DRPG game in 2005-6, although we still all invite each other to parties.)
Everyone is creative and very much into the role-playing aspect. It's kind of refreshing to be playing PF with people who aren't super-strong on the rules: Our characters were designed primarily for style and concept and we're all having a blast! No one really second-guesses the GM's rulings, so that makes combat run a bit more smoothly.
Oh... and sipping Kraken rum while playing Skull & Shackles is sublime!
We've had a few problems with our group, mostly people with seriousness issues, but other than that we've had a flawless record with gaming (considering we are a group of 8, that's fantastic). I've been playing Pathfinder for..three years now? (D&D didn't exist in my hometown) and I couldn't love it more! Our GM has been fantastic, but now since he's moving on to new games, I'm picking up the books and starting my GM experience, hopefully I can get a good playing group together just as he did.
Just want to add I love reading all of these, especially after coming out of other threads wondering why anyone is still playing :) It really helps put things into context a lot better.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Considering how often (too often) all we see are complaints for whatever reason. I sometimes wonder if people playing the game enjoy it. Or do it out of some sort of geek obligation. Its pretty telling when the negative threads outnumber the postive ones. Then of course we have those who want to hear from both sides on topic who have already picked a side. Posting only to say that those who dont agree with them are wrong. As well as for some sort of validation. While in reality just want a echo chamber instead of a serious discussion.People in general like to complain more than they like to praise. That's why news reports are usually about disasters and wars, and no one reports that "Today in Chicago everyone was happy and nothing happened".
I know I get sucked in by those "My GM is terrible!" threads myself. But really, I've never had an experience with a truly awful GM or player.
I've had bad GMs, but I don't complain about them on the boards.
Instead, I internalize the rage and take it out on my players.
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Just want to add I love reading all of these, especially after coming out of other threads wondering why anyone is still playing :) It really helps put things into context a lot better.
While people will always complain about something, I find if you get the right people, Pathfinder can bring people a lot closer to each other, and it's always a fun way to end a stressful week, to escape reality haha
A significant proportion of the principles of communication I've advocated applying (from the player's perspective) to solving the various contrived GM/player problems posted recently on these boards, are taken from the perspectives of my Saturday GM, Kain.
So in that regard, I am his student, and I think that he's teaching good stuff.
Any crap ideas I posted were probably all mine, though. ;)
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A significant proportion of the principles of communication I've advocated applying (from the player's perspective) to solving the various contrived GM/player problems posted recently on these boards, are taken from the perspectives of my Saturday GM, Kain.
So in that regard, I am his student, and I think that he's teaching good stuff.
Any crap ideas I posted were probably all mine, though. ;)
That's the thing though. Apparently if either side attempts to communicate it seems either a failing on either sides part or giving in. Want to play a special snowflake. Well you cant' ask your being entitled. A DM can't say no to a special snowflake he is being unfair. From what I can see people want to portray themselves as wanting to listen and communicate. Yet truthfully don't want to. Or want to yet make sure the odds are all stacked in their favor. If a DM makes it clear he does not like special snowflakes as characters why allow a player to make one in the first place. If A DM says no to such characters why bring it up during the character creation process.
That's the thing though. Apparently if either side attempts to communicate it seems either a failing on either sides part or giving in. Want to play a special snowflake. Well you cant' ask your being entitled. A DM can't say no to a special snowflake he is being unfair. From what I can see people want to portray themselves as wanting to listen and communicate. Yet truthfully don't want to. Or want to yet make sure the odds are all stacked in their favor. If a DM makes it clear he does not like special snowflakes as characters why allow a player to make one in the first place. If A DM says no to such characters why bring it up during the character creation process.A significant proportion of the principles of communication I've advocated applying (from the player's perspective) to solving the various contrived GM/player problems posted recently on these boards, are taken from the perspectives of my Saturday GM, Kain.
So in that regard, I am his student, and I think that he's teaching good stuff.
Any crap ideas I posted were probably all mine, though. ;)
I have problems with the seeming assumption that if thee are ANY odd concepts you would just reject, it means you would reject ALL odd concepts. That having any restrictions at all leads straight to core only. That it's either everything, or 'only tolikien' ...
I've been playing with two different groups for quite a while now.
Both are fun to play with since they're friends of mine, but that does not make them immune to critique.
Group X has a DM who's very good at handling the story and immersion, but he's arbitrary, occasinally makes every NPC out to be a jerk for no apparent reason, and refuses to justify banning races I've made sure would not be distruptive neither story- nor stat-wise.
Group Y has a DM (actually multiple taking turns) who's open to a larger variety of concepts when it comes to characters and thus less restrictions, but the group as a whole (with one exception aside from myself) tends to take the plot too lightly for my tastes.
I find that only partially true, and sometimes I want to flex those brain muscles the opposite way of where restrictions force them to go.
Telling me to only flex one way will make the other way weaker, just like training only your right arm will leave you with a VERY weak left.
That does sound pretty nifty. Undead aren't a very common Player Character choice. I approve.
Me and some players from both groups have been thinking about a monster campaign for quite some time now.
I've had some terrible games. I've seen some terrible players, horrible DM's, and have done horrible things as a player and DM myself. I've seen players break down, and have complete, table-flipping freak outs. I've seen arguments escalate into almost fist-fights; nose to nose shouts, cursing, threats, shoving, etc.
Honestly, it makes you appreciate a good game just that much better. Even during the most boring campaigns, if there isn't any cringe-level awkwardness, I count my blessings. If nobody gets knocked out, or a friendship doesn't get ruined, I consider it a successful campaign.