Fighter: help me with my tripping build please


Advice


Hi, I'm building a level 5 human fighter (phalanx soldier) for Rappan Athuk. Point buy 25.

I'm going to be the party tank, and in my opinion tanking is all about negating the enemies any chance to target the squishies. So I went with a tripping build.

Stats:
STR 15 +2 (racial) +1 (advancement) +2 (item) = 20
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 7

alternatively
STR 17 +2 (racial) +1 (advancement) +2 (item) = 22
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 7

Traits:
Seeker (+1 perception and class skill)
Bred for War (+1 CMB and intimidate)
Reactionary (+2 initiative)

Drawback:
Meticulous (-2 to untrained skills)

Feats:
1) Two-weapon fighting
1) Combat reflexes
1) Improved shield bash
2) Combat expertise
3) Improved trip
4) Greater trip
5) Fury's fall

Coming soon:
6) Shield slam
7) Power attack
8) Felling smash
9) Improved bull rush
10) Greater bull rush
11) Outflank
12) Pin down
13) Weapon focus (bardiche)
14) Greater weapon focus (bardiche)

Equipment:
Belt of giant strength +2
+1 Mithral full plate
+1 Darkwood heavy shield with masterwork spikes
mwk bardiche
mwk shortsword
3x mwk javelins
other cheap adventuring stuff

I crafted my weapons, shield and armor with my high craft (armorsmithing) and craft (weaponsmithing).
My basic tactic is to fight with a bardiche and a spiked heavy shield, so I threaten everything within 10 ft (20 ft when enlarged) and enjoy a lot of AoO with which to trip opponents and provide even more AoO for my allies.
By level 6, assuming I survive that long, I'll bull rush with my shield in order to then trip with my bardiche in the same round. At level 10, bull rushing also generates AoO.
The party goblin rogue with combat reflexes will take outflank at level 11 as well for even more AoOs and tactical awesomeness, and pin down completes the triplocker build.
Sporting +19/+20 trip, 49 hp and 26 AC at level 5, but rather poor will especially with the second array and no cloak of resistance.

Is there any way I could build my fighter better?
Which of the stat arrays would you choose?
Any tweak on equipment? I'm torn between the +1 on my shield or a cloak of resistance.

Thanks!


I think you can only have greater trip at level 6. TAke power attack instead. Or weapon focus (it add to your attack AND to your CMB fro trip).

As fighter do not ever have wisdom 8.

I woudl take the cloack of resistance instead of the +1 shield.


Good catch on greater trip!
I thought it required BAB 4+, I'll take power attack instead so I can dish out some damage. Switching feats around to take greater trip at level 6 and shield slam at level 7.
Weapon focus is a very good feat, but sadly I can't afford it earlier than level 13 since I also have to focus on bull rushes to control the battlefield with my shield slams...

Wisdom 12 plus the cloak means +3 will... not sure if it's enough, I guess I'll take iron will at 15th then!


Krinn wrote:


Wisdom 12 plus the cloak means +3 will... not sure if it's enough, I guess I'll take iron will at 15th then!

Definitely not enough, but a +3 is much better than +0.


A 2H reach weapon would maximize your chances of getting an attack of opportunity, which you can use to trip. Use armor spikes to hit things up close. This makes it a lot harder for monsters to just run around you to get to the squishies in the back.

Or instead of armor spikes, take a level in Maneuver Master Monk to get Improved Unarmed Strike for close attacks and Flurry of Maneuvers for a free extra trip attack whenever you make a full attack. Also, Maneuver Master Monk can take Improved Trip as a bonus feat, and you won't need to take Combat Expertise (provided you don't care about Greater Trip). Oh, and Monk dip gives +2 Will Saves.

Lore Warden Fighter gets +2 CMB/CMD at level 3, and they get Combat Expertise for free. Your AC won't be as high, but if things are always prone, they will have a hard time hitting you.


Thanks for the suggestions!

I'm usually loathe to multiclass, but I toyed around with a monk (weapon adept and maneuver master).
Turns out, the monk is better than the phalanx soldier, especially due to ki throw!
However, as far as bonuses go, Lore Warden has the highest modifiers to hit, damage and trip, and more hit points.

Greater Trip is the foundation of my build, and I'd like to get it sooner rather than later. Both the monk and the fighter can get it at 6th level as a bonus feat.
Since pure monk is weaker than pure fighter for this kind of build, I'm going to need Combat Expertise, which is free with Lore Warden.

Maybe I'll take 2-4 levels of Maneuver Master (w/ Four Winds) after Lore Warden level 7 and get improved grapple, improved bull rush, +WIS on a maneuver check, elemental fists, increased saves and evasion. Adding (improved) Ki throw would be icing on the cake.
Can you flurry of maneuver while wearing armor? If so, I can see myself keeping my light armor on.


Here is the revised build till level 11, I'll start at level 5:

Lawful Neutral Human (Hearth of the Wilderness / Focused Study) Fighter (Lore Warden) 7 / Monk (Maneuver Master, Four Winds, Vow of Truth) 4

STR 20 (15 +2 racial +1 advancement +2 item)
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 7

Traits:
Seeker (+1 Perception and class skill)
Bred for War (+1 Intimidate and CMB)

Feats:
1) Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard)
1) Combat Reflexes
1) Skill Focus (Perception)
2) Combat Expertise
2) Improved Trip
3) Fury's Fall
4) Power Attack
5) Weapon Focus (Fauchard)
6) Greater Trip
7) Cornugon Smash (party likes free debuffs)
8) Skill Focus (Intimidate)
8) Improved Unarmed Strike
8) Improved Grapple
8) Elemental Fists
9) Improved Bull Rush
9) Ki Throw
11) Improved Ki Throw

Skills:
Acrobatics, Intimidate, Perception, Survival, Knowledge (Dungeon), Knowledge (Nature), 1 point into Climb and Swim, 1 more in Sense Motive and Stealth when I become a monk.
After level 11, it's all fighter and I have yet to decide whether to focus on grappling, tripping or damage.


One suggestion :

Heirloom Weapon (+2 Manuever), you can use the spell to make it masterwork for enchanting.

Personally I like Scythe better for trip builds, although you have to do a level of Cleric and worship a god with a scythe to flurry with it as a monk weapon. Or get Ki enchantment on it.

Also, if you're going Skill Focus at level 1, I suggest a Half-Elf instead of Human. You get the Skill Focus for free, and you can select both Monk and Fighter for your favored classes. You'd lose a skill point per level.


Don't forget to get a Dragoncatch Guisarme to trip the pesky fliers with. Probably rearrange your feats to work with that.

You could take Racial Heritage to qualify for Underfoot Adept/Maneuver Master monk as it gives you more bonuses for tripping (effectively increases your size by one). Get Vicious Stomp if you really want to pile on attacks, and use Enhanced Ki throw instead of Improved.


Heirloom doesn't work with exotic weapons sadly, however I could use a guisarme with the trait and save a feat for something else, weapon specialization perhaps.

Flurrying isn't an issue since Flurry of Maneuvers doesn't ask for a monk weapon to benefit from the extra maneuver(s). I chose the Fauchard because it has a good critical range and I thought fighters could spend a feat on exotic weapons anyway.

Human with Focused Study get three skill focuses (at 1st, 8th and 16th level) in lieu of their bonus feat. That's a very nice trade since I like pumping Perception, Intimidate (right after I get Cornugon Smash) and eventually Acrobatics (right after I get Hair's Breadth) for the cost of a single feat. 4 less hit points (that's how I'd spend my favored class) are not worth 2 skill focuses imho.


Nice!
I think I like guisarmes better than fauchards after seeing that item :D
Heirloom weapon it is then, and weapon specialization (guisarme)

With underfoot adept I lose too many feats:
- it'd give me improved trip instead of stunning fist/elemental fist but I'd already have greater trip so it is wasted.
- it gives a not-so-useful acrobatic ability instead of the bonus feat at 1st level.
- it costs another feat to take racial heritage (halfling), and really I can't see myself having a halfling heritage AND the bred for war trait :D

In exchange, I only get a +1 bonus to effective size, just for tripping. I'll pass...

Vicious stomp is cool but I don't think my GM will let me take two AoOs with greater trip, since the "tripping action" is just one opportunity, just like "moving multiple squares" is just one opportunity. And it forces me to trip the enemy into an adjacent square, while I'd rather push it away from enlarged me so I can flank with the small party rogue.

Enhanced Ki Throw would be nice if I actually had more than 4 ki points... my unarmed strike isn't so damaging either (1d8+STR tops), so I'm going to save my ki to trip larger opponents when in need and/or use reliable maneuver.

Dark Archive

For what it is worth "Vow Of Truth" has no benefit @ Level 4 Monk.

Your first level of monk should be level 2 IMHO, this gets you the Improved Unarmed Strike. Vicious Stomp is a free AOO with Unarmed strike on every attack. I'd take level 2 of monk @ level 4; this "front loads" you with lots of feats (8 feats by 4th level)

I'd personally trip with unarmed strike if you're not going for reach. Then use "Vicious Stomp" for free extra attacks (your damage will actually be solid). Stick with fighter unless you are going to get your Wisdom higher; the ki pool isn't worth it, and Brawling armor quality is amazing for trip builds (+2 CMB for trip and grapple, +2 damage with unarmed strike).

So, rebuild (25 points) Fighter 3 / MM 2
Str: 18 (you have higher priorities than a +2 str item, see below) - 7 points
Int: 14 - 5 points
Wis: 12 - 2 points
Dex: 16 - 10 points
Con: 14 - 5 points
Chr: 7 - -4 points
Traits: Cautious Fighter, +1 Will Trait

Feats (taking this to level 5).

F1: Two-Weapon Fighting, Fury's Fall, Improved Trip
M1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes
M2: Viscious Stomp, Dodge
F2: Combat Expertise,
F3: Crane Style

Magic Items: +1 Mithril Chain Shirt of Brawling, Red Ioun Stone Slotted In Wayfinder

AC: 25 (when fighting defensively, which you always do).
Saves: Will: +5, Fort: +8 Ref: +7 . Pretty darn good for a fighter with no magic items enhancing them. The 2 levels of monk really help this early.

Attacks: Trip (+AOO) * 3
CMB (Trip): +5 (BAB, since Manuever Master counts it @ 1) -2 Flurry of Manuevers -2 Two-Weapon Fighting -2 defensive +4 Str +3 Dex +2 Lore Warden +2 armor +2 Red Ioun Stone +2 feat = +14. +17 if you only get 1 attack for round or need the extra (by not flurrying).

CMB (Grapple): +5 BAB, -2 Flurry, -2 Defensive +4 Str +2 Lore Warden +2 armor +2 Ioun Stone +2 feat = +13

Attack: -2 Two Weapon Fighting +4 BAB +2 Armor +4 Str = +8 to hit. Damage = d6+8. You get a free one when someone falls around you (and don't take the two weapon penalty and do get the tripped bonus, for a total of +14 to hit in these circumstances).

3 attacks at level 5, with a +14 to trip, and doing d8+7 damage (with a free AOO). When you get greater trip (delayed until 7 now sadly, a cost of this build), you get 2 AOOs with each attacks (and buddies get 1).

So you will regularly do this as an attack routine (if you have enough people around):

Attack Guy #1 with Trip. AOO him as he goes down with a punch.
Attack Guy #2 with trip. AOO him as he goes down with a punch.
Attack Guy #3 with trip. AOO him as he goes down with a punch.

Or vs 1 opponent:

Attack 1 opponent with Trip. AOO him as he goes down with punch. Punch him. Grapple him.

Win!


You should be taking that monk dip earlier so you can get the Improved trip before greater trip obviously. A size bonus is extremely important because you can't even begin to attempt to trip opponents who are two size categories larger than you are.

Scarab Sages

Krinn wrote:

Hi, I'm building a level 5 human fighter (phalanx soldier) for Rappan Athuk. Point buy 25.

Is there any way I could build my fighter
...

I'be been playing a similar, all be it a bit more role playing build in PFS, and it has been over performing and excellent for board control.

This was a snapshot at lvl 5...he just got to Hellknight PrC at 7.
Using the fauchard with Lead blades helps keep up the loss of damage for no 2-handed str bonus. With the rogues in my group, I could easily flank but found I was being ignored due to the high AC and weak damage. I stayed with a Breast plate and the first revelation let me keep my 30' move and acrobatics if I need it. I had also considered 2 wep fighting but went against it, and I'm glad I did; in the first 6 levels, it was rare where I really needed to attack adjacent targets so having the 2 weapon fighting would have never yielded much benefit. You can always bash adjacent with a spiked shield anyway if you REALLY need it; like an adjacent caster. HK PrC armor lets you move at full.

Ultimately, I will go the Cornugan smash route at level 7 and Greater trip at 9; allowing a free intimidate on any power attack and selecting the Fearsome HK discipline at 9; I'll cause frightened with any hit and a successful Intimidate check. At level 5, the trip was +14 which was more than sufficient most of the time. Also, by not focusing on one weapon, it allows more variety; use of a lucern hammer for the blunt only foes, the above mentioned guisarme could come in handy.

With Orcale of steel; you get 2 key things: lead blades, which stacks with enlarge (3d8 w/ enlarge)and liberating command (+13 at lvl 5); you will get grappled.

There are lots of cool ideas in this tread.

"Raze"
Male Human Fighter (phalanx fighter) 3/Oracle 2
LN medium humanoid
Init +3 Senses Dark Vision to 30'
DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 21
hp 39
Fort 5 ,Ref 5 ,Will 4
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft
Melee MW Cold Iron Fauchard +9 (1d10+6/18-20/x2) or MW Cold Iron Fauchard +9 (1d10+4/18-20/x2) or Masterwork Iron, Cold Lucerne hammer +9 (1d12+6/x2) or Shield Bash +8 (1d4+4/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Dart +8 (1d4+4/x2)
Space 5 Reach 5
STATISTICS
STR 18 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 13 WIS 7 CHA 12
Base Atk 4 Grp80
Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard), Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Fury's Fall, Power Attack
Skills Acrobatics +5, Disable Device +5, Escape Artist +5, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception -1, Blacksmith +2, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +6
Languages Common, Infernal, Abyssal
Gear +1 Breast Plate, Dagger, Masterwork Iron - Cold Lucerne hammer, Masterwork Dart (10), +1 Mithril Shield w/ Iron - Cold Spiked, MW Cold Iron Fauchard, Cloak of Resistance +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Crowbar, Lantern - hooded, Oil (1-Pint flask) (3), Backpack , Belt - Chain, Thieves' tools - masterwork, Wrist Sheath (Medium creature), Air crystals (2), Tanglefoot bag (2), Bladeguard, Alkali flask (4), Smokestick (2), Weapon cord (3), Potion of Cure lt Wounds (2), Potion of Weapon Blanche - Silver (3), Potion of Fly, Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, Wand of CLW (50 charges), Wand of Protection from Evil (50 charges), Wand of Lead Blades (50 charges), Wand of Lesser Restoration (9 charges), Wand of Disguise Self (5 charges), Wand of Shield of Faith (50 charges)


gah the forum ate my lengthy answer :(

However, quick resume...
- your build looks awesome!
- monk vows always give at least 1 ki.
- feat order is a bit messed up but it's not hard to make it right.
- lore warden gets combat expertise for free at level 2, so I have one more feat... you seem to be missing improved grapple in the feat list, so that is that.
- I actually like reach weapons, however I can just carry around a masterwork guisarme and then drop it before meeting an enemy in the face.
- I think you're refering to the dusty rose prism ioun stone, it gives +1 insight AC and +2 insight CMB/CMD when slotted into a wayfinder.

Now, I was going to look at the numerical differences between your multiclass and my pure fighter.

AC: 25. => 18 (worse)
Saves: Will: +5, Fort: +8, Ref: +7. => Will: +3, Fort: +7, Ref: +5 (worse even with cloak, and no evasion)

Attacks: Trip (+AOO) * 3 => Guisarme or Trip (no AoO) * 1 (worse)

CMB (Trip): +5 (BAB, since Manuever Master counts it @ 1) -2 Flurry of Manuevers -2 Two-Weapon Fighting -2 defensive +4 Str +3 Dex +2 Lore Warden +2 armor +2 Red Ioun Stone +2 feat = +14. +17 if you only get 1 attack for round or need the extra (by not flurrying). Make that +15/+18 with Bred for War (+2 if I don't want to use defensive fighting for any reason). => +23 with my Guisarme (better)

CMB (Grapple): +5 BAB, -2 Flurry, -2 Defensive +4 Str +2 Lore Warden +2 armor +2 Ioun Stone +2 feat = +13 (+14 with Bred for War) => No grapple feats, but a single check at +13 (worse)

Attack: -2 Two Weapon Fighting +4 BAB +2 Armor +4 Str = +8 to hit. Damage = d6+8. You get a free one when someone falls around you (and don't take the two weapon penalty and do get the tripped bonus, for a total of +14 to hit in these circumstances). => +13 to hit with my guisarme at 2d4+10, +17 vs prone (better)


Monk 3 gives two nice things:
- maneuver defense (so I can actually fight back monsters with grab and trip)
- maneuver training (so I maximize my CMB on AoOs and single attacks)

Monk 4 as well:
- another +1 to all saves
- reliable maneuver (for when I *really* want that maneuver to land)
- ki pool (ki throw is awesome for repositioning and I can do so with bigger opponents)
- unarmed damage increases to d8 (enlarged, that's 2d6!)

I guess monk 3 gives better things than monk 4, but I'll take monk 4 anyway after I get 7 fighter levels.

So, after the first 5 levels, I'll take
Fighter 4: Crane Wing (fighter)
Fighter 5: Greater Trip (level)
Fighter 6: Greater Grapple (fighter)
Fighter 7: Crane Riposte (level)
Monk 3: (nothing)
Monk 4: Ki Throw (level)
Fighter 8: Binding Throw (fighter)
Fighter 9: Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) (level)
Fighter 10: Greater Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) (fighter)
Fighter 11: Enforcer (level)


Hmmm, cautious fighter is a feat (and a racial one at that!), not a trait... so that's 2 less points of AC...
However, I found this other trait:

Threatening Defender
Benefit: When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.

So using both I have -1 to hit and the same AC listed.

Dark Archive

Fighter 9 gives you an extra +1 to all attacks; Fighter 11 lets you basically unconfirm critical hits with your acrobatics skill. I think this is more than monk. If you Monk 5 and had a good Wisdom it'd be worth it for the Manuever Master bonus to a manuever type each round (and self barkskin a few times per day), but you really don't have the wis for that setup.

If you like the Guisarm style (and who can blame you), I'd actually make this character a "true" multiclass monster and move into Inquisitor (of Gorum) after Fighter 3 / Monk 2. That would look like this:

Fighter 5 / Monk 2 / Inquisitor of Gozreh 3:

Str: 17 (start) + 2 (levels) +2 (magic items) - 7
Int: 14 - 5
Wis: 14 (16 with a +2 item) - 5
Dex: 16 - 10 +2 item
Con: 12 - 2
Chr: 7 - -4
Heirloom Weapon Trait (Guisarm), whatever other trait you want.

F1) Fury's Fall, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
M1) Dodge
M2) Mobility
F2) Spring Attack, Combat Expertise
F3) Whirlwind Attack
Inquisitor 1) - Growth domain (swift action Wis + 2 bonus to make self large... 5 rounds per day giving you a 20' reach with your whirlwind),
Inquisitor 2) - Improved Dirty Trick
Inquistor 3) - Tandem Trip (lets you get 2 rolls on any opponent that has an ally beside them),
Fighter 4)Greater Trip, Swift Dirty Trick
Inquisitory 4) 2nd level spells
Fighter 5) Greater Dirty Trick, Weapon Style

Trip +4 (feats) -2 (Flurry) +10 (CMB) +2 (Heirloom) +2 (Ioun) +2 (approximate bonus of weapon) +3 (Fighter Weapon with Dueling Gloves) +1 (cracked Pale Green Ioun Stone) +5 (Str approx) +4 (Dex Approx) +2 (Lore Warden) = +31, +32 when you enlarge yourself.

So this hybrid monster was handed an heirloom weapon (+2 CMB with trip), and can go size large "on a whim" as of level 6. When any ally is beside an opponent he attempts to trip and rolls 2 dice instead of 1 (which is huge). He wears a breastplate of agility; and against flyers he can attempt 2 blinding attacks (a la dirty trick) in addition to his usual shinanigans. Once a caster is on the ground he casts litany of sloth on them so they can't cast defensively from the ground (amazing inquisitor spell).

This build gives you a LOT of flexibility in terms of tactics; vs crowds thanks to the guisarm + unarmed strike you can enlarge and trip everyone within 20 feet; one opponent you can use your AOO to do a blinding attack. Then Manuever master lets you blinding attack ANOTHER opponent (so armies of creatures on the ground and 2 are blind). It's not a grappler (if you carry a weapon grappling is @ -4 anyway, so no real point focusing there). Rogues love you (blinding someone gives them AOOs), and you have access to lots of handy spells. Your saves are also off the charts. The enlarging lets you pull off lots tripping huges too.

It takes advantage of the fact that you can actually Whirlwind AND Manuever Master someone who you missed. And the growth domain is huge (pun intended) for Reach fighters. Only disadvantage here is putting off Greater Trip till level 9, and about -3 CMB vs a straight fighter.

Also, saves:

Will: +3 Monk +1 Fighter +3 Inquisitor +3 Wis = +10
Fort: +3 Monk +5 Fighter +3 Inquisitor +1 Con = +12
Ref: +3 Monk +1 Fighter +1 Inquisitor +4 Dex = +9

Before your resistance bonuses (of +3 by now). Really good for fighty type.

Fun with multiclass trip monsters of doom :).

EDIT:

It's -1; I forgot Defender of Society (the trait I was looking for) requires Medium armor.

10 (base)
3 (dex)
5 (armor)
1 (Dodge)
+4 (Fighting defensively with 3 ranks acrobatics and crane style)
+1 (ioun stone)

For a total of 24; and again, slots can get it much higher. You'll eventually crane wing and auto-dodge 1 attack with that build. But I only gave +1 AC for the trait, you don't want the additional penalties usually for expertise (it's there if you do though).


Heh...
I always think that whirlwind attack is a trap. And that would cut into my AC and other abilities as a monk/fighter with crane style... my character should be tank-y after all.
However, dirty tricks sounds really good in lieu of (or in addition to) grapple, and you've got a point about how more fighter levels give back better stuff earlier.
Shaken, blinded, sickened, entangled... I wonder why I never looked at this precious gem!

Fighter (Lore Warden) 3 / Monk (Underfoot Adept, Maneuver Master) 2

H1) Dodge
L1) Racial Heritage (Halfling)
F1) Cautious Fighter
M1) Improved Unarmed Strike
M1) Improved Trip
M2) Improved Dirty Trick
L3) Crane Style
F2) Combat Expertise
F2) Fury's Fall
F3) Combat Reflex
L5) Vicious Stomp

Fighting with a (Heirloom) Guisarme and using it to blind enemies.
Notable feats awaiting for following levels:
6) Ki Throw
7) Greater Trip
8) Crane Wing
9) Crane Riposte
10) Greater Dirty Trick
Quick Dirty Trick is not good since I can't use it on an AoO, just on my turn.
I will still take a brawling armor, the dusty rose ioun stone and the wayfinder.

More monk levels don't add up nearly as much as fighter levels, so I'll be happy with 2.
In the very unlikely case that I reach 15th level of fighter, I'll probably finish out as a monk though, Fighter 15 / Monk 5.

Dark Archive

Dirty Trick is terrible unless you are a manuever master that uses no weapon; than it is amazing (usually it's a full round).

For what it's worth, I play a Tengu Lore Warden / Manuever Master, and often Dirty Trick once they are on the ground even without the feat support... them being on the ground is a +4, and you get a pretty amazing deal in the first place.

If you're going to use the Guisarm you can't Crane Wing (requires a free hand). The Racial Heritage isn't worth it for the +2 AC; you can get +2 AC without eating precious feats. You also can't Dirty Trick using the weapon; the only manuevers you can do with a weapon (per paizo) are disarm, sunder, and trip. Disarm is fine but I'd rather keep it as an "unfeated" option (since it's only good vs humanoids usually).

Trip builds run into issues later; not because of CMD (you can keep up with that), but flight and overly large size completely negate them (you can't make up). Grapple is a great alternative (though has the problem of Freedom of Movement). With my manuever master my long-term plan (that has worked out quite well) has been having trip, grapple, and dirty trick all online, but that requires giving up the reach weapon.

On the other hand, from levels 5-8 having the AOO-trip will generally be quite handy. Still, my Funk often uses all 9 of his AOOs (he's a dex-based build with Str dumped) vs armies of foes.

If you want my build @ 5 for 25 points (I had 20, but I adjusted below), here he is:
Tengu Lore Warden 3 / Manuever Master 2

Str: 7
Int: 14
Wis: 18
Dex: 20 (17 + 2 racial +1 feat)
Con: 12
Chr: 7
Traits: +1 Disable Device / Class Skill, no penalty from Combat Expertise

Alt Racial Feature:
Claws

F1) Combat Reflexes, Agile Manuevers
M1) Improved Trip
F2) Improved Grapple, Weapon Finessee
M2) Improved Dirty Trick
F3) Vicious Stomp

AC: 21 naked (usually mage armored from wand to 25 by a friendly caster)

At this level he does claw/claw/bite/Manuever as his attack routine; claws and bites can be traded out for trips. He's +14 to trip, Dirty Trick, or grapple (assuming the -2). He can technically take an extra unarmed attack, but never does (it's not worth -5 to hit on the claw/claw/bite).

He wears an agile amulet and has the ioun stone as the extent of his magic items at this level (probably).

As of my current level 9 build, he's +24 to trip/grapple (+22 dirty), and has two-weapon/improved two-weapon. He's also 31 AC and has 8 attacks unhasted (Claw-5/Claw-5/Bite -5/Unarmed/Two-weapon Unarmed/Unarmed -5/Improved Two Weapon Unarmed -5/Manuever). With level 5 of Manuever Master he gained the ability to add his (now +5) wisdom bonus to any manuever as a swift action, putting that trip up to +29.


Pit Fighter PrC can get dirty trick with weapons so you could dirty trick with a scorpion whip at 15 feet for a 3 level dip.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Fighter: help me with my tripping build please All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.