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Alignment doesn't even work in the game. Why would I try to apply it to the real world, where it would arguably be even dumber?
Most D&D characters are neutral to evil based on the rules governing alignment. Likewise, many acts commonly considered deplorable in many societies such as cannibalism aren't evil in Pathfinder/D&D.
That being said, the D&D/PF alignment definitions are actually really practical ways of determining what is or isn't good and evil. Practical enough to use in reality. It's just good and evil without all the extra social baggage.
I don't get the question. Are you saying you think everybody's game involves Good characters committing murder, and Lawful characters kicking in doors and killing people because they look shady?
And under this weird and patently wrongheaded pretense, you are asking if anybody would dare to play their character reasonably Good or Lawful? Because in the 40-years+ of the game, you think nobody ever has?
Murder is not "okay" for Good characters. If they are okay with it, they are not really all that Good. Killing may be acceptable, but it ought to come with some difficulty and it ought to be necessary. Otherwise, you are not playing a Good character.
Plenty of people play their characters in line with what they feel is real world morality. Many don't. But it's hardly a novel concept.
I apply real world alignment already. I don't play with alignment at all! Just like real life. I mean, there are still consequences for your actions, but you don't have to write anything on your sheet.
I'm not talking about applying DnD alignment to the real world. Only a sociopath would try that.
It works pretty well for me. I find it's actually pretty much the most raw concepts that define a strong morality and is far more reasonable than morality based on theology (I say this as a Christian, theological morality is cracked).
I'm not sure what's sociopathic about it though. Is caring and respecting people's dignity "not good"? Is being altruistic "not good"? Is respecting life "not good"? Is hurting others "not evil"? Is oppressing others "not evil"? Is killing others "not evil"?
Frankly, I'd consider anyone who disagreed with these basic principles to be the one that was sociopathic since it would imply an appreciation for selfishness, violence, cruelty, etc.
I'm talking about applying real world morality (however your culture, subculture, or sodality defines it) to DnD.
I dunno. The above actually pretty much does define my social morality. I don't know of anyone who doesn't think killing people is bad, or that putting others before yourself good, or that oppression is bad, or that treating people with dignity is good. I'd probably be disgusted with anyone who thought that being selfish and killing people was somehow not a bad thing.
That being said, I suppose if we want to define alignment without objective core standards, we could do that. I'm just not sure that I would want to play in a game where it's morally upright to marry your daughter to her rapist after the rapist pays you off with some silver.
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Considering how even murder can be okay for good characters in some campaigns, has anyone ever tried to run a game with alignments your real world culture would recognize?
All the time. Every one of my campaigns has pretty much scrapped alignment from the get go. People just play their characters like real people, and when they do stuff morally wrong, they get censured or praised by others depending on those characters moral character.
Considering how even murder can be okay for good characters in some campaigns, has anyone ever tried to run a game with alignments your real world culture would recognize?All the time. Every one of my campaigns has pretty much scrapped alignment from the get go. People just play their characters like real people, and when they do stuff morally wrong, they get censured or praised by others depending on those characters moral character.
Best way to handle it imo. Though I've met some people with some seriously warped sense of what's praise worthy and what needs to be berated. Lots of horror stories there.
I'm just not sure that I would want to play in a game where it's morally upright to marry your daughter to her rapist after the rapist pays you off with some silver.[sarcasm]People do that in your culture??[/sarcasm] Or is that just a trollish non sequitor?
It depends. It's considered "morally right" based on moral laws in the Holy Bible, which is a cultural thing, but it's something that most don't even know about or choose to ignore because their own morality rejects it.
So how would someone handle that in game? "My character is lawful good because he follows the cultural laws that are set out by my religion but I choose to ignore because reasons. His backstory involves him murdering his brother in cold blood for wanting to worship another deity, killing a member of his tribe for planting two different crops in the same field. He then spent years in prison being chaotic good because my social laws also dictate that doing these is illegal. Are we having fun yet?"
Then we have the issues of "who's society"? The society I live in shuns everything and promotes everything. On one side of the street we have people condemning people for being homosexual, while on the other side we have people professing the goodness of freedom, being yourself, and not being hate mongering tools.
I like my D&D Morality thanks. Where good is good and evil is evil.
That being said, if your question is less about trying to apply the multitude of social ideas that are flooding our own reality, and instead imposing your own sense of morality on your character...then yes.
My characters, good or evil, are actually pretty serious when it comes to killing people. Killing people is a big deal. For most people with a heart it's a terrible horizon, for even evil people it's probably still disconcerting or could result in some sort of reprimand. Unless you're just completely psychotic you will probably be somewhat apprehensive about killing someone, even if you're otherwise a terrible person to the core.
Most of my characters try to resolve encounters (including of the combat kind) without killing anyone. Most have mercy. Most let things go and forgive people.
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You're going to discount a possibility just because the person suggesting it doesn't follow the example themselves?
Fundamental Christians play this game too, and they have just as much against witchcraft and pagan worship as Muslims.
I mean, you wanna talk about bringing real world alignment into the game...
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Actually, I thought we were talking about playing Pathfinder according to real world alignments.
Just like I don't have to be a devil-worshiping lawyer to play a Chelaxian, I don't have to be a Muslim to play a follower of Mohammad.
Like Ashiel said, I probably wouldn't WANT to, of course.
Your question makes no sense and comes across as yet another tired, ignorant, anti-religion swipe by the kind of person who thinks Hitchens was "k3w1".
Did you miss the post where Ashiel stated he was Christian?
That's why I said "it comes across as" instead of something more accusatory.Did you miss the post where Ashiel stated he was Christian?Your question makes no sense and comes across as yet another tired, ignorant, anti-religion swipe by the kind of person who thinks Hitchens was "k3w1".
See, when I read anything on these boards, taking a statement as "coming across as" something is as certain a judgement as I make, as text-based communication between strangers is notoriously unreliable and prone to misunderstanding. I kind of assumed everyone else bore in mind the less-than-stellar accuracy of transmission/decoding via messageboards as well, and thus I didn't perceive in your comment the unstated "except I know that you're a Christian" part that you apparently intended.
My bad.
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And my point is that the waters are muddy at best. As much as I hate to say it, there are indeed religious people today who cite the laws of Leviticus to condemn others. In Georgia right now there are students who are expelled from private schools because they were suspected of being homosexual or homosexual sympathizers (there's an article about it in a recent Rolling Stones magazine) based on the laws of Leviticus. That's a social standard of morality.
But it's not the ONLY social standard for morality. It's not the only one that people fall into. The OP said:
I'm talking about applying real world morality (however your culture, subculture, or sodality defines it) to DnD.
That includes civilization and society, subcultures that create distinctions between yourself and overall society, and any associations fraternities or religious fellowships.
So which one are we dealing with? In just America alone we have tons of different cultures and subcultures and few of them are entirely exclusive. It's pretty safe to assume that most of us fall into a few subcultures (such as gaming subculture, where I'm not sure if we have any universal morality system or not, but I might have been sick that day), then many of us fall into different religious subcultures, then most of us have different social laws that vary from state to state, then we have social laws that span the entire country with some exceptions. Finally, we have people fighting to change stuff in virtually every facet of this primordial culture stew.
If anyone expects to find a working way of telling good from evil out of all of the above then I bid them the absolute best of luck. Especially if they can do it without starting fights at the table when we should really all be gaming.
Because, again, I don't want to play in any game with a mish-mash of culture-based morality where it could be Lawful Good to murder your daughter because she became an apostate, but the character next to her is Chaotic Evil because you didn't or are Lawful Good yourself because you follow a different standard where people have freedom of religion.
People in reality can't agree on what's right and wrong. Why would that help to make characters act better than a game that makes morality really simple and without baggage?
I think when I said "your culture/subculture/sodality" (which is distinctly different from that of someone else living in a different part of the world, say, a diffferent state or in a different social circle, for example, the snake handling church down the street from your house that you don't attend or associate with), I was being pretty clear.
I'm talking about applying real world morality (however your culture, subculture, or sodality defines it) to DnD.So which one are we dealing with?
MY morality is different from the moralities of my peers and is actually very simple and very close to core Pathfinder morality merely because of its simplicity. Does that disqualify? Or does one have to claim a certain banner?
I can't discuss things with my own cousin without her screaming at me for affronting her beliefs (when I said that the idea of free will AND everything being predetermined do not work together), so why would I want to make people have different alignments depending on who they were and then declaring them all the same?
Well, in my games murder and rape and theft are not things Good characters do, so I think my games align pretty well with my real world morality.
Same. My D&D characters don't take killing people lightly. Honestly, I'm not sure the OP knows what the alignment rules say since:
Considering how even murder can be okay for good characters in some campaigns, has anyone ever tried to run a game with alignments your real world culture would recognize?
Sounds nothing like the Pathfinder morality system.
And:
I'm thinking it might be kinda interesting and challenging. A law enforcement officer can't just knock down doors and kill people because they look shadey. The officer would have to investigate. Then, they'd have to consider charms, polymorph, illusion, etc.
Sounds like your average day in the games I play in.