Does a glass window break Line of Effect?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I arrived at a problem tonight with my group concerning Wall of Force.

I presumed that Wall of Force would stop fireballs and enervations, basically any spell where a visual effect originated from your side of the wall, but allow you to cast charm person on someone behind the wall.

The group showed me the wording and I conceded (a little grumpily) that the Wall of Force broke Line of Effect because as it states this in the spell description.

My question is does Wall of Force disrupt Line of Effect only because it states this in the spell description or because it is a force effect? Would any clear material break Line of Effect for spells like charm person or haste?

(and can Witches hexs affect someone though a Wall of Force?)


Why would a solid barrier NOT block Line of Effect just because you can see through it? LoE doesn't rely on sight at all; hence why Obscuring Mist doesn't affect it.


Core Rulebook, Magic, Line of Effect wrote:

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.

So yes, it's stated in the CRB. The only gray area here, for GM interpretation, is what does the CRB mean by "solid barrier"?

I take it fairly literally. An element exists in one of three states, solid, gaseous, or liquid. Anything that is not gaseous or liquid is solid, even if it is only barely solid. Cotton candy is solid, by this definition, and would block a spell unless there was a 1'x1' hole in the wall of cotton candy.

So yes, a window should block line of effect just fine.


Does an invisible stone wall block line of effect?

Yes.

So why wouldn't glass?

Grand Lodge

It depends on what the effect is based on.

If the effect is a sight based effect than line of effect still exists when the barrier is a transparent surface. Example. I cast a prismatic sphere. If you're under 8th level you can still be dazed by the visual display if you're close enough, even if a wall of force is between you and the sphere.

If it's a physical effect than it's by call. If my lightning bolt can destroy the barrier between me and you than I can zap you as well. If not , then the line of effect is blocked, and you're completely safe from it. Someone holding a large sheet of paper, wouldn't block the bolt from striking you, but a think stone wall would keep you safe.


Must . . . resist . . . physics . . . discussion . . .

. . . think of the catgirls, blahpers, think of the catgirls! . . .


LazarX wrote:
If the effect is a sight based effect than line of effect still exists when the barrier is a transparent surface. Example. I cast a prismatic sphere. If you're under 8th level you can still be dazed by the visual display if you're close enough, even if a wall of force is between you and the sphere.

You're confusing "Line of Sight" with "Line of Effect."

Line of Effect is required for you to place the origin of your spell. Prismatic Sphere is always centered on the caster, so it's pretty much impossible to ever lose Line of Effect to your own body.

Suffering the blinding/dazing effects of a Prismatic Sphere only requires looking at it, which is based on Line of Sight which, you correctly note, is not blocked by a transparent barrier.

LazarX wrote:
If it's a physical effect than it's by call. If my lightning bolt can destroy the barrier between me and you than I can zap you as well. If not , then the line of effect is blocked, and you're completely safe from it. Someone holding a large sheet of paper, wouldn't block the bolt from striking you, but a think stone wall would keep you safe.

You're confusing "Line of Effect" with "Are of Effect". You only need Line of Effect to the origin of the spell. Lightning Bolt begins at your fingertips, presumably the same fingers that create the Somatic component; you pretty much always have Line of Effect to your own fingertips. Once the bolt exists, it has specific rules regarding barriers in its Area of Effect.


The thing is unless the spell is smashes through the glass ( ie lightning bolt) the game doesn't differentiate between an invisible wall of stone and glass.


Ya, technically you'd have to see if the Lightning Bolt broke the glass window, via the object damaging rules. If it did, then it can keep going, if not...


blahpers wrote:

Must . . . resist . . . physics . . . discussion . . .

. . . think of the catgirls, blahpers, think of the catgirls! . . .

But But But... I thought a glass window was a liquid?


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lol, true, but only Sheldon Cooper would really care about that - and I bet when he plays, his glass windows don't block Line of Effect...

For the rest of us, glass is a solid. Thankfully. I myself am very glad that I can pour my Coke Zero into a glass and not have the two liquids combine into a silicon-flavered fizzless soft drink mush that spills all over my computer desk.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

GgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhNOGLASSISNOTALIQUIDWINDOWSWEREJUSTCUTTHAT WAYGAAAH--

Oh no. WHAT HAVE I DONE

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Winston Colt wrote:

Would any clear material break Line of Effect for spells like charm person or haste?

(and can Witches hexs affect someone though a Wall of Force?)

Yes

Yes

Now some spells have effects that don't require line of effect (like Flame Strike for example.)


James Risner wrote:
Now some spells have effects that don't require line of effect (like Flame Strike for example.)

If you're referring to this:

Core Rulebook, Magic, Cylinder Area wrote:
A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.

Then I think you're confusing "Area of Effect" with "Line of Effect".

You still must have "Line of Effect" to the origin of the cylinder. A cleric could not, for example, stand in his temple and cast Flame Strike on some enemies outside by simply targeting them through a closed window - he would not have "Line of Effect" to the target, the origin of the cylinder.

This is per RAW:

Core Rulebook, Magic, Line of Effect wrote:
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

So, open the window, cast the Flame Strike on any visible target location within range (and still within Line of Effect), and now you can select your point of origin, trace your 10' radius circle, and fill a 40' tall cylinder with holy fire that ignores all obstructions within its Area of Effect.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

DM_Blake wrote:
Then I think you're confusing "Area of Effect" with "Line of Effect".

I stand corrected. For some reason I thought there was a line about about it comes down from the sky or some such.

Liberty's Edge

Deleted. I misread it; it is only against attack rolls.

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