hey guys, i'm entering a lv 10 campaign, i will be the fifht man, all other roles are covered and this let me play one of the archetype i wanted to try the most.
i'm trying to put up a build, right now the cornerstone of the build are:
melee and dex focus
25 pb
62 000 gold for the equip
i'm also divided on the race, i like human and half elf , maybe half elf is better for the Favored Class bonus.
it seem to me that the best feats are Lingering Performance, arcane strike and weapon finesse right? where to go from there?
If you're Dex based, you require an Agile weapon. You should also take the Fate's Favored trait. I'm not really sure what else you're looking for as far as advice is concerned.
Your best bet is actually halfling. You get a bonus to dex and charisma and a penalty to strength. Use dervish dance and strength won't matter.
Also, as a halfling archeologist you break the +1 to all luck bonuses trait in half.
Make sure to take that fate's favored trait from UC.
If you like scimitars, you could take dervish dance to get a better +1 on your weapon.
Half-elf could go eldritch heritage arcane and improved familiar for UMD mephit..
Human could go CE, improved/greater feint for debuffing..
have you considered TWF? With inspire courage and arcane strike, you get decent bonuses to each hit. Admittedly, this is a much better strategy with the Dawnflower Dervish, since they get twice the bonuses from inspire courage, making it almost like a better form of rage (and yes, Dervish Dance is NOT the best weapon style for them shockingly)
A cestus is a nice weapon to use since it is a simple light weapon, and it allows you to continue to use your hand for other things such as grabbing components. There are some details describing how they interfere with fine actions, and some might stretch that into concentration checks (like with the similar brass knuckles) despite the fact that is never mentioned in the cestus description, but you can cast with shields. So you have some room to argue.
The classic Indiana Jones Archeologist -- let's face it, that's who this archetype is based on -- would have a whip, with which he uses the weapon finesse and other whip-related feats that are a pain in the rear to get level by level but work great when you can choose them all at once.
Is Archaeologist so important to you? You certainly can make a melee dex build with it, but the Dawnflower Dervish does it better, both the Dervish Dance and the TWF styles.
great idea on halfling, i love the luck sub theme, lets put down a first draft
Halfling archeologist lv 10
alternate race trait Adaptable Luck
pb 25
Str 10-2= 8
Cos 14
dex 16+2= 18
int 12
wis 10
cha 16+2= 18
TRAIT:Fate's Favored,???????
lv 1 Weapon finesse
lv 3 arcane strike
lv 4 rogue trick:
lv 5 Lingering Performance
lv 7
lv 8 rogue trick:
lv 9
EDIT:
XMorsX yeah archeologist is pretty fixed, i really want to play it, i know there are better archetypes, but i'm pretty sold for this one
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote: The classic Indiana Jones Archeologist -- let's face it, that's who this archetype is based on -- would have a whip, with which he uses the weapon finesse and other whip-related feats that are a pain in the rear to get level by level but work great when you can choose them all at once. if i go the halfling route the whip doesnt seem so appealing, since i take a malus to the manouver attacks
Ok then Archaeologist it is. Do you like the whip wielder Indiana Jones style Paladin of Baha-who? mentions?
alexander leah wrote: hey guys, i'm entering a lv 10 campaign, i will be the fifht man, all other roles are covered and this let me play one of the archetype i wanted to try the most.
i'm trying to put up a build, right now the cornerstone of the build are:
melee and dex focus
25 pb
62 000 gold for the equip
i'm also divided on the race, i like human and half elf , maybe half elf is better for the Favored Class bonus.
it seem to me that the best feats are Lingering Performance, arcane strike and weapon finesse right? where to go from there?
Go Halfling and take a couple levels of Halfling Opportunist. Among other great RP opportunities you get an automatic Perception check whenever you come within 20' of a trap.
I've got a build that ran through RotRL if you're interested, its built as an archer but was originally conceived as a Dirty Trick specialist.
Being smpall is only a -1 penalty on CMB, I don't believe that you should turn down the build just for this. What would be necessary for a whip build too work is a fighter dip for the bonus feats. Fortunately Lore Warden gives extra skill points and at 2nd lvl Combat Experise for free. I also like Halfling Opportunist, but you may not want to lose more than 2 caster levels if you go with the Lore Warden dip.
xmorsx: i want to be more a arcane rogue/duelist than a true archeologist like indiana
wiggz: i would prefer to not miss any spell level, does dirty tricks scale well? i never played a manouver user before
You could do something like this:
Halfling Archaeologist 18/ Lore Warden 2
Stats: Str 10, Dex 18 (+1 at 4, 8 lvls), Con 14, Int 13 (+1 at 20 lvl), Wis 8, Cha 14 (+1 at 12, 16 lvls)
Magical Knack, Fate's Favored
1st Bard Weapon Finesse
2nd Lore Warden Lingering Performance
3rd Lore Warden Weapon Focus: Whip, Whip Mastery, Combat Expertise
4th Bard
5th Bard Dazzling Display
6th Bard Combat Trick (Improved Trip)
7th Bard Improved Whip Mastery
8th Bard Resiliency or Trap Spotter
9th Bard Greater Trip
alexander leah wrote: xmorsx: i want to be more a arcane rogue/duelist than a true archeologist like indiana
wiggz: i would prefer to not miss any spell level, does dirty tricks scale well? i never played a manouver user before
Just saw it.
Dirty Trick is one of the only maneuvers (Grapple being the other one) that actually stays relevant throughout the game, but is worthless until you can reduce the action cost or increase their action cost (making it cost more than a move to remove or cost less than a standard action to use). It's actually acceptably viable starting at level 10, but I still don't think it's actually worth it for a Dex-based Bard (since your feats are so tight--Lingering Performance, Weapon Finesse, and Arcane Strike are essentially required).
And there's no need to take Halfling Opportunist because Archaeologists can get Rogue Talents. Considering the only Rogue talent other than a Bonus Feat that's really worth taking is the one that lets you auto-spot traps, I think it's a safe bet that it will be part of his build anyway.
Despite the archaeologist flavour, I'd highly recommend going against a maneuver bard - they just don't have the BAB to get their CMB high enough, even if you fully invest in it with items and feats.
I tried a tripping archaeologist, and ended up spending 27 prestige in rebuilding it. Not fun.
alexander leah wrote: wiggz: i would prefer to not miss any spell level, does dirty tricks scale well? i never played a manouver user before NO maneuvers scale well though of them Dirty Trick is by far the best. Its still a trap in my opinion and there's nothing that a Dirty Trick chain will get you that an Archery chain wouldn't do better.
I was referring to being small giving you a bonus in Stealth, AC, etc. plus the Halfling's saving throw bonus and attribute modifiers.
I understand you not wanting to miss any spell levels, but Bards peak a lot earlier casting-wise than full casters. You won't miss it, I don't think, especially not as an archer who can also bust out Inspire Courage and Discordant Voice.
You'll be an awesome scout, a good face and/or knowledge base, have healing and biff spells as well as numerous bardic abilities... PLUS you'll be effective in combat and in a way the other party members won't have to worry about pulling your fat out of the fire.
Just my 2 cp.
Wiggz: as Archeologist archetype i lose inspire courage.
The gm has told to me to make a lv 10 instead of a lv 9, but this doesnt change much, i'm more fixed on melee than ranged because the other party members are 3 ranged focused and only one melee.
Trap spotter seems great, i will go for it for a rogue trick, also for the second trait the one that give me disable device as class skill seems good to me
What about combat casting?
For a melee non-whip user bard I would suggest a strengh-based two-handed fighting build. Here is a half-orc (for the falcion proficiency) going for the eldrich heritage (orc bloodline) feats. Could also be half-elf, but half orc fits more thematically and has higher saves. I also suggest a 4 level dip in Dragon Disciple for the Srtengh boosts (and the flavor is nice):
Half-orc Archaeologist Bard 6/Dragon Disciple 4
Alternate racial trait: Sacred Tatoo
STATS: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
Traits: Fate's Favored, Opportunistic Gambler
1 Bard Lingering Performance
2 Bard
3 Bard Dodge
4 Bard Talent: Weapon Training: Weapon Focus: Falcion
5 Bard Extra Performance
6 DD
7 DD Skill focus: Survival, Power Attack (bonus)
8 DD
9 DD Eldrich heritage (Touch of Rage)
10 Bard
11 Bard Eldrich heritage (Strength of the Beast)
12 Bard Talent: Combat Trick: Furious Focus
13 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Touch of Rage)
14 Bard
15 Bard Quicken Spell
16 Bard Talent: Opportunist
17 Bard Eldrich heritage (Power of Giants)
18 Bard
19 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Power of Giants)
20 Bard Talent: Crippling Strike
XMorsX wrote: For a melee non-whip user bard I would suggest a strengh-based two-handed fighting build. Here is a half-orc (for the falcion proficiency) going for the eldrich heritage (orc bloodline) feats. Could also be half-elf, but half orc fits more thematically and has higher saves. I also suggest a 4 level dip in Dragon Disciple for the Srtengh boosts (and the flavor is nice):
Half-orc Archaeologist Bard 6/Dragon Disciple 4
Alternate racial trait: Sacred Tatoo
STATS: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
Traits: Fate's Favored, Opportunistic Gambler
1 Bard Lingering Performance
2 Bard
3 Bard Dodge
4 Bard Talent: Weapon Training: Weapon Focus: Falcion
5 Bard Extra Performance
6 DD
7 DD Skill focus: Survival, Power Attack (bonus)
8 DD
9 DD Eldrich heritage (Touch of Rage)
10 Bard
11 Bard Eldrich heritage (Strength of the Beast)
12 Bard Talent: Combat Trick: Furious Focus
13 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Touch of Rage)
14 Bard
15 Bard Quicken Spell
16 Bard Talent: Opportunist
17 Bard Eldrich heritage (Power of Giants)
18 Bard
19 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Power of Giants)
20 Bard Talent: Crippling Strike
Keep in mind a few things when considering these options though:
1) Opportunistic Gambler is a campaign trait from a very long time ago. Many GM's would never allow the Touch of Rage/Oppotunistic Gambler combo because they clearly weren;t intended to interact. Not saying its not legal, just saying consult with your GM first.
2) There is an interpretation that Quicken Spell-like ability only applies to SLA's that mimic spells and as such wouldn't be applicable as shown above. I don't personally agree with that, but it is a viewpoint that is commonly held.
3) You'll eventually need higher than 14 Charisma to pursue this feat chain.
XMorsX wrote: For a melee non-whip user bard I would suggest a strengh-based two-handed fighting build. Normally I would agree with your suggestions, but when the OP states that he wants a dex based build, suggesting a str based build doesn't do much good, now does it?
Beyond that I second Wiggz's points.
The half elf has a lot of advantages for an archeologist bard. First they can use the Ancestral Arms to get proficiency in a good weapon, probably scimitar. Second Arcane Training gives a nice boost when using wands and scrolls. The favored class bonus of 1 round of performance per day is incredibly good especially when combined with lingering performance. This essentially gives you 3 rounds per level of the rarest bonus in the game on almost all rolls.
CHA may be your casting stat, but it is not as important to an archeologist as it is to other casters. Your best spells are things that boost you, or do not have saving throws. Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Heroism, Invisibility, and Mirror Image are all good spells for an Archeologist. Avoid the charm spells and you can save points on CHA without sacrificing anything.
Dumping STR is also a bad idea. Even if you are using dervish dance you still have to worry about encumbrance. A handy haversack can overcome and using mithral armor will help. It sucks when you are playing a thief type character and just grabbing the loot puts you to medium encumbrance. Having a 13 STR also allows for power attack for some extra damage. If you have heroism and are using your archeologist luck with dervish dance you will probably not have a problem hitting.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: The half elf has a lot of advantages for an archeologist bard. First they can use the Ancestral Arms to get proficiency in a good weapon, probably scimitar. Second Arcane Training gives a nice boost when using wands and scrolls. The favored class bonus of 1 round of performance per day is incredibly good especially when combined with lingering performance. This essentially gives you 3 rounds per level of the rarest bonus in the game on almost all rolls.
CHA may be your casting stat, but it is not as important to an archeologist as it is to other casters. Your best spells are things that boost you, or do not have saving throws. Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Heroism, Invisibility, and Mirror Image are all good spells for an Archeologist. Avoid the charm spells and you can save points on CHA without sacrificing anything.
Dumping STR is also a bad idea. Even if you are using dervish dance you still have to worry about encumbrance. A handy haversack can overcome and using mithral armor will help. It sucks when you are playing a thief type character and just grabbing the loot puts you to medium encumbrance. Having a 13 STR also allows for power attack for some extra damage. If you have heroism and are using your archeologist luck with dervish dance you will probably not have a problem hitting.
Some good points there. My Halfling Archeologist is strong in Knowledges and Dexterity skills but has only a 14 Charisma (including racial bonus) and doesn't generally use spells that would require a DC save. Its all buffs and useful spells.
.
In addition to the boost to rounds of Archeologist's Luck (which, remember, you don't gain as you level up), the Half-Elf also offers a free Skill Focus feat which can be used as the starting off point for many interesting Eldrtich Heritage options.
ShadowcatX wrote: XMorsX wrote: For a melee non-whip user bard I would suggest a strengh-based two-handed fighting build. Normally I would agree with your suggestions, but when the OP states that he wants a dex based build, suggesting a str based build doesn't do much good, now does it?
Beyond that I second Wiggz's points. I cannot just say "hey you will be the weaker member of the party and everybody will laugh at you behind your back but it is ok, just follow your concept", can I? I feel obligated to at least warn the OP that there are much better alternatives with a similar flavor than what he has in mind. Playing a semi-fighting class that deals no damage is just no fun for anyone, no matter how flavorful it is. I remember from my players, one of them was forced to change his original dex-based TWF wakizashi wielder ninja to an unarmed sap master feat tree user, because his full-round sneak attacks were still dealing less damage than a power attacking 18 Str cleric who was also hitting twice as many times because of his reach weapon. And this was the best case scenario.
He changed his concept a bit, but now he is having more fun and is building a more interesting character.
Wiggz wrote: XMorsX wrote: For a melee non-whip user bard I would suggest a strengh-based two-handed fighting build. Here is a half-orc (for the falcion proficiency) going for the eldrich heritage (orc bloodline) feats. Could also be half-elf, but half orc fits more thematically and has higher saves. I also suggest a 4 level dip in Dragon Disciple for the Srtengh boosts (and the flavor is nice):
Half-orc Archaeologist Bard 6/Dragon Disciple 4
Alternate racial trait: Sacred Tatoo
STATS: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14
Traits: Fate's Favored, Opportunistic Gambler
1 Bard Lingering Performance
2 Bard
3 Bard Dodge
4 Bard Talent: Weapon Training: Weapon Focus: Falcion
5 Bard Extra Performance
6 DD
7 DD Skill focus: Survival, Power Attack (bonus)
8 DD
9 DD Eldrich heritage (Touch of Rage)
10 Bard
11 Bard Eldrich heritage (Strength of the Beast)
12 Bard Talent: Combat Trick: Furious Focus
13 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Touch of Rage)
14 Bard
15 Bard Quicken Spell
16 Bard Talent: Opportunist
17 Bard Eldrich heritage (Power of Giants)
18 Bard
19 Bard Quicken Spell-like Ability (Power of Giants)
20 Bard Talent: Crippling Strike
Keep in mind a few things when considering these options though:
1) Opportunistic Gambler is a campaign trait from a very long time ago. Many GM's would never allow the Touch of Rage/Oppotunistic Gambler combo because they clearly weren;t intended to interact. Not saying its not legal, just saying consult with your GM first.
2) There is an interpretation that Quicken Spell-like ability only applies to SLA's that mimic spells and as such wouldn't be applicable as shown above. I don't personally agree with that, but it is a viewpoint that is commonly held.
3) You'll eventually need higher than 14 Charisma to pursue this feat chain. 1) The trait can be found in the d20PFSRD, I considered it legal. If it is not allowed in his game then eldrich heritage (orc) does not cut it IMO, the feat tax is just too big and the benefits very late.
2)I have see this interpretation. Fortunately quicken spell-like ability is not a big loss and can by substituted if it is not allowed.
3)I assumed he raises charisma every level. You are right I should have mention that.
If your going to be small and want to trip people down, you should get the Agile Maneuvers feat. It lets you use your dex instead of your str in caculating your CMB.
i get your point XMorsX, like i said i know thare are more powerfull option, but i prefer to optimize my concept the most than change my concept to the best build, but thanks anyway, all imput and ideas are well welcomed!!
Updated build
Halfling archeologist lv 10
alternate race trait Adaptable Luck
pb 25
Str 10-2= 8
Cos 14
dex 16+2= 18
int 12
wis 10
cha 16+2= 18
TRAIT:Fate's Favored,Vagabond Child (disable device as class skill)
lv 1 Weapon finesse
lv 3 arcane strike
lv 4 rogue trick: trap spotter
lv 5 Lingering Performance
lv 7 Pirahna strike
lv 8 rogue trick:
lv 9
Ok then, for a dex melee build you have two routes, twf and dervish dance. Like lemeres said, I also believe that two weapon fighting will wield better results. I suggest you use a light spiked shield and a cestus. Take the shield bash line of feats and you will eventually take the shieldmaster feat which eliminates the penalties of twf. You can cast with the hand that has the cestus.
I could see a decent dex twf build like this. Light shield and cestus:
Halfling Lore Warden 2 / Archaeologist 18
Traits: Magical Knack, Fate's Favored
Stats: Str 10, Dex 18 (+1 at 4, 8 lvls), Con 14, Int 13 (+1 at 20 lvl), Wis 8, Cha 14 (+1 at 12, 16 lvls)
(avoid negative str modifier, Vagabond child is nice but both Magical knack and fate's favored are better)
Alternate racial traits: Adaptable Luck, Fleet of Foot
1 Lore Warden Weapon Finesse, Improved Shield Bash
2 Lore Warden Two Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise
3 Bard Lingering Performance
4 Bard
5 Bard Arcane strike
6 Bard Rogue trick: Trap spotter
7 Bard Shield Slam
8 Bard
9 Bard Big Game Hunter
10 Bard Rogue trick: Weapon Training: Combat Trick (Piranha Strike)
11 Bard Discordant Voice
12 Bard
13 Bard Shield Master
14 Bard Rogue trick: Opportunist
15 Bard Improved Initiative
16 Bard
17 Bard Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
18 Bard Rogue Trick: Crippling Strike
19 Bard Improved Critical
20 Bard
You really need the fighter lvls to get you going. Fortunately, Lore warden gives 4+INT skill points so you will not lose much. By using a shield for two weapon fighting you retain your high AC. At 13 lvl you finally ignore the penalties of two weapon fighting for the shield, which is much needed because of your medium BAB progression. DOn't forget to raise Perform (Oratory) every level until level 10 for meeting the prereqs of Discordant Voice.
discordant voice doesnt work with archeologist luck i think
alexander leah wrote: discordant voice doesnt work with archeologist luck i think You are probably right, it is an extraordinary and not supernatural ability. It is a shame. Anyway, in this case the build can be altered like this:
1 Lore Warden Weapon Finesse, Improved Shield Bash
2 Lore Warden Two Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise
3 Bard Lingering Performance
4 Bard
5 Bard Improved Trip
6 Bard Rogue trick: Combat Trick (Greater Trip)
7 Bard Arcane strike
8 Bard
9 Bard Big Game Hunter
10 Bard Rogue trick: Trap spotter
11 Bard Piranha Bite
12 Bard
13 Bard Shield Master
14 Bard Rogue trick: Opportunist
15 Bard Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
16 Bard
17 Bard Improved Critical
18 Bard Rogue Trick: Crippling Strike
19 Bard Staggering Critical
20 Bard
Trip and greater trip added. You have combat expertise for free, it is a shame not to take advantage of it. Also, tripping the enemy is particullary useful to a twf. You take away his chance to step away from you and deny you your full-attack.
Also you can (and should) wield a heavy shield. Cestus will be your off-hand.
XMorsX wrote: Also you can (and should) wield a heavy shield. Cestus will be your off-hand. Well this is a mistake, for a moment I forgot that we are talking about a Dex fighter. Light shield and cestus it is then.
yeah really good but dont hate me but is really far from my concept, i will stick to the one i was posting up there, where i have slot for 2 feats, any ideas? combat casting may be worth it?
also what is better :
a +2 agile rapier or a+1 agile keen rapier?
Enhancement bonuses are almost always the best thing you can get on a weapon. (Agility for dex based builds being an exception.) However, rapiers are not light weapons and will not work with piranha strike. (Sucks, I know.) I'd recommend using short swords.
DM said that is ok pirahna with a rapier
I won't hate you don't worry, but I don't see a strong concept, just a couple of feats for a dex fighter together. DO you want to fight with a rapier like Elan?
+1 keen agile rapier is my bet
yeah lets say i'm working a dashing swordman concept
Fair enough. But if this is your concept, why bother with Archaeologist? Unless you want a dashing archaeologist swordman concept :)
because i like the mix of abilities this class has
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alexander leah wrote: hey guys, i'm entering a lv 10 campaign, i will be the fifht man, all other roles are covered and this let me play one of the archetype i wanted to try the most.
i'm trying to put up a build, right now the cornerstone of the build are:
melee and dex focus
25 pb
62 000 gold for the equip
i'm also divided on the race, i like human and half elf , maybe half elf is better for the Favored Class bonus.
it seem to me that the best feats are Lingering Performance, arcane strike and weapon finesse right? where to go from there?
I am playing an archeologist now. Its awesome.
I wouldn't dip - spell casting is your best asset along with your luck, knowledge supremacy and rogue abilities.. all suffer if you dip - not to mention skills and any favored class bonus!
For race I choose was Vishkanyas because:
1.+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma
2.+2 racial bonus on Perception checks. (its what you do)
3.+2 racial bonus on Escape Artist and Stealth checks. (get out of grapples)
4.a racial bonus on saving throws against poison equal to its Hit Dice.
(frikin amazing)
5. Poison Use: never accidentally poison themselves
(poision is GOOD: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc12)
6. You get a venom ability that can be upgraded to a staggering poision with a feat
7. always proficient with blowguns, kukri, and shuriken.
8. ONLY RACE that adds to Archeologists luck rounds: Bard: Add +1 to the bard's total number of bardic performance rounds per day.
I am 5th and have been the best performer across the board (damage, hit, survival, skills, social, saves, defense).
Took a trait for +1 fort saves and a trait that gives disable device
Stats were 12 (need for encumbrance), 16, 14, 13, 10, 15
At 4th added stat to int so that level got 10 skill points and bought ALL knowledge skills so with just one rank can now beat anyone and auto 20 if I cannot.
Feats i took: 1. Weapon Finesse, 3. Arcane Strike, 5. Lingering Performance
With finesse I am equally good with shuriken (free draw), bows (long range) or my preferred kukri - its ALL about the crits! luck and arcane strike apply to all so the others complain when it seems I am good with everything.. even when I was turned into a vulture in some dream sequence wierdness!
I pre-cast heroism (2nd level bard spell and long duration) which gives me +2 to hit, saves, SKILLS, and initiative checks).
1st round I engage my luck = +3 base, +1 weapon, +3 dex, +2 heroism, +2 luck = +11 doing d4+4 damage 18 + crit and poison, 2nd round I arcane strike doing +11/d4+6 18+
Its enough to make an impact and will increase nicely with luck/arcane strike/magic weapon/str item.
More to the point - and the point of the archetype and class) I dominate EVERY skill check in the game
Find traps without looking (trap spotter)
Have uncanny dodge and a good AC (buckler + armor + amulet) which i normally boost with defensive fighting -4 for +3 AC with acrobatics as +11 is WAY more than I need to hit at 5th level.
My saves with heroism and resistance up = +7 (+12 vs poison),+10,+7 at 5th and I will have evasion soon so pretty much ignore most things that stop the 'fighters' dead. 44 hit points with good perception and saves means I often start combats with more than the fighters.
Heroism is a must, with stealth and summon swarm I have taken out entire encounters (and could take out all our parties warriors) and Gallant Inspiration allows a +2d4 on skill checks I cannot make or crit confirm rolls - I rarely use it as can do DC 20 skill checks easily enough and ALL DC 30 knowledge checks automatically and my perception and disable device are pretty silly as well.
Cure Light Wounds has been useful (level relevant healing always is sooner or later at low levels) at times but detect secret doors alone has meant NO treasure is left behind. Alarm has save our lives when ambushed as some in the party have poor perception and keep watch badly (and bad luck) never mind I often use it to mark central points so I know if we are being followed/flanked so can be ready.
Feats to follow are the Vishkanyas poision feat (its TOO good), craft arms and Armour (to keep my ac/hit/dam above others for wealth) and maybe the master alchemist feat.
Was pondering the combat expertise, blind fight, moonlight stalker thing to get +2 hit and damage and find some cheap lame way to be concealed like mistmail till I get displacement but decided against it. I prefer my feats as are and dislike all short buffs (less than 10mins pl) or buff sequences that take more than a single round: I find its unlikely if the DM knows the rules, enforces them and has a real idea of what he is doing.
As far as role I am the rogue (only better than any other), face, know all, tactical planner and manage to be in the right place at the right time and the most reliable damage round in and out over a combat where weaknesses are poked and ACs are higher than usual.
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Fate's Favoured definitely but also Master Performer and Grandmaster Performer (from the Faction Guide), these would give an extra +3 to Archaeologist's Luck which boosts, skills, combat and saves. At 10th level this would be +5!
So...
1. Extra Perfomance & Master Performer;
3. Weapon Finesse;
5. Lingering Performance;
7. Arcane Strike;
9. Grand Master Performer;
I personally would take 2 levels in Lore Warden Fighter though.
insaneogeddon: our concept is very similar apart from the poison use, but with that race is indeed a strong option, unfortunately my master doest allow them, so i will go with either halfling or half elf, what items you would advice with 62000 gp for a 10th lv character?
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Party needed a rogue - don't like the sucker punch/back stab type when playing a hero, don't like the sing/song performer bard thet prostitutes to others for gain either. The ranger/trapper archetype lacked rogue talents and though tempted didn't like the Alchemist Crypt breakers need for 'baggage'. Only one choice left.. also in retrospect with luck and heroism.. none other could come close to the know all nerdyness of the bard.
Equipment:
Self made: Elysian Bronze weapon (situational extra damage) I was going to put the 'duelling' enhancement on it ASAP but otherwise just go for strait +'s so can hit things others cannot/help BAB/be different from the +1 holy crowd!
Darkwood Buckler
Self made: Darkleaf Cloth Studded Leather (mitheral studs)
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/index.htm l
5000 Gloves of Arcane Striking (burst damage explosiveness!)
As stat, deflection and resistance items come up in play the things I have been tossing around to get made/buy are:
5200 Vest of Escape (grapple sux)
10000 Bane Baldrick (great burst damage for the hard opponents or when others underestimate you)
1000 Boots of the cat + 1400 Daredevil boots + 2000 Feather step Slippers (cheap even combining and doubling costs)
I am low level yet so thats it, have looked about and have a list of other stuff that took my fancy but really cannot remember all prices.. might ask you what you decide on:
5000 Scabbard of Staunching (defence)
16000 Scabbard of keen edges (feat is cheaper!)
25000 Sash of Flowing Water (free hand deflection)
---- Amulet of con or natural armour if you lack poison thats con based
----Ion Stone (the +1 ac one .. dusty rose I think)
Cord of Stubborn Resolve
BlinkBack Belt
Meridian Belt
Heavy Load Belt
Belt of fallen Heroes
Belt of Thundering
Unfettered Shirt
750 Snapleaf
600 Arrow Magnet
2000 Blood Reservoir of physical prowess
6400 Dragon bane divination sticks
2250 Elemental Gem
4000 Bracers of the falcon
5400 Storm Lure
Bladed Belt
Drinking Horn of Bottomless Valour
Book of Harms
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/spellbooks.html
Some end game things I was going to try to pull were:
Binding major CR outsiders with my knowledge checks:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/bindingOutsiders.htm l
Building Construct Armour (was going to take craft construct as a high level feat)
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/buildingAndModifying Constructs.html
since another player has craft magic weapon and armor you have some other advice?
The items above are still relevant no matter how you get them.
Also 2 craft feats in a group can be great if you have limited downtime. Craft wonderous is always an option or old faithfuls like improved initiative, exotic weapon proficiency, iron will/great fortitude, weapon focus or improved toughness.
Don't forget there is a feat that gives you extra traits: sometimes +1 to two saves is better than +2 to one!
Depending on your race look at the racial feats you qualify for .. some are really great or at least very themed.
If you have feats to burn the crane style route is about as broken as you can get!
mmmm if i add a one level dip, which are the best bet? unarmed figther and go for crane style?
Apart from TWF (which I wouldn't do as a bard), dervish dance or an agile weapon there's another option for dex-based melee: a dip into the aldori swordlord prestige class. It has a pretty tough prerequisite in terms of feats, but you get dex to damage with a one-level dip. Also, the dueling sword is a pretty cool weapon, and you can two-hand it for the 1.5x power attack bonus (which you cannot do with almost any other finesse weapon). Going this route as a bard would be tough at lower levels, but since you don't have to worry about low levels it is what I'd build.
Half-elf.
9 Archeaologist / 1 Aldori Swordlord
Ability scores (25 pts)
Str 13, Dex 16+2, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Traits: The +1 to luck bonuses one and blade of mercy
Feats:
1. Weapon finesse, EWP dueling sword
3. Power attack
4. Rogue talent: trap spotter
5. Weapon focus
7. Arcane strike
8. Rogue talent: combat trick: dazzling display
9. Lingering performance
Actually, you could do pretty much the same thing with an agile elven curve blade and no level dip, I guess, which would give you some more freedom with your feats. I would probably do one of those two though: the better power attack bonus is rather nice, and the weapons are much cooler in my opinion.
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