If you, Human McFighter, fell an orc, can you then move through his square unhindered, or would the unconscious/dying/dead foe count as an obstacle?
What about three orcs killed (sequentially) in the same square?
admittedly I usually handwave the corpses of fallen enemies and remove them from the map -every gm i have ever played under has done this-
Technically speaking though, it probably would count as an obstacle. Maybe I should start doing this.
I concur. We normally just remove corpses and forget about them. They should probably count as difficult terrain.
well, one corpse wouldn't keep you from moving through, no. It would count as an obstacle, so moving through a square contianing a body would cost and extra 5' of movement. It would also prevent you from charging/running through the square.
Anyway, it never says explicitly whether bodies/unconscious people count as obstacles, the fact of the matter is that what, specifically, an "obstacle" is is pretty much left up to the GM.
I'd say it would be a very reasonable ruling that the corpse of a medium size or larger creature would count.
Looks like most people play it pretty much the way we've always played it, with minor variation for how much corpse constitutes an obstacle.
Thanks for your input!
A 5' by 5' square is actually 25 square feet. One human size corpse would not be a significant obstacle in a space that big -- stepping or jumping over it would not be a challenge even for the least athletic among us. By the time there are enough bodies to pose an obstacle, most of us will have lost count of just how many foes died in that one square.
Eh, one corpse can sprawl and cover a significant fraction of a 5'-by-5' square, especially if entrails and such have fallen out. Not to mention pools of blood if on, e.g., tile or marble floor. Still, I'd likely not bother unless more than once corpse is in the same square.
You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty.
I would guess that it would also apply to a corpse.
Now imagine a Large-sized or larger corpse...those will definitely present an obstacle, perhaps even an impassible one.
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The helpless opponent rule applies to the movement associated with opponents. Obstacles are still obstacles, whether rocks, furniture, or bodies. That said, I don't worry about medium or smaller, or if the local cleric tends to use channel in combat. I do use large sized and larger critters as obstacles.
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I'm not sure if there is anything official supporting this, but our house rule is that 3 x small, 2 x medium, or 1 x large foe*, lying dead in a square constitutes difficult terrain.
*in the case of a large foe, their corpse only impedes movement in 2 of the 4 squares their mini takes up - usually the front 2 for consistency.
We also play that it is a full round action (that provokes an AoO from living foes who threaten you) to move a corpse to a different square.
Rough terrain from dead bodies is indicated on the battle mat by "xx" in that square.
It's worth noting that this house rule provides greater benefit to the PC's, since "fallen mooks" become an excellent way to impede movement and block charges... We've never played a scenario where the PC's are sending waves of mooks the other way...
You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty.I would guess that it would also apply to a corpse.
Seems reasonable, so long as it's only one opponent and that opponent only occupies that square.
I just think that a sleeping character and a dead one take up exactly the same amount of space.
While not listed anywhere, one could say that a creature their size and smaller doesn't cause problems.
But I agree, it seems kind of strange that a body on the floor doesn't slow down a charge.
You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
It amuses me that it took nearly 20 posts of "there's no rule for it" before someone actually checked the book. ;)
To be fair, the combat and movement sections are a bit of an info dump. It's a nontrivial task finding some of these details. But it's true, I should have found this before posting.
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I'm not sure if there is anything official supporting this, but our house rule is that 3 x small, 2 x medium, or 1 x large foe*, lying dead in a square constitutes difficult terrain.
*in the case of a large foe, their corpse only impedes movement in 2 of the 4 squares their mini takes up - usually the front 2 for consistency.
We also play that it is a full round action (that provokes an AoO from living foes who threaten you) to move a corpse to a different square.
Rough terrain from dead bodies is indicated on the battle mat by "xx" in that square.
It's worth noting that this house rule provides greater benefit to the PC's, since "fallen mooks" become an excellent way to impede movement and block charges... We've never played a scenario where the PC's are sending waves of mooks the other way...
I like this and was thinking something along the same lines but was gonna use the rules for swallow whole to figure out what constitutes an equal amount of differently sized corpses.
It amuses me that it took nearly 20 posts of "there's no rule for it" before someone actually checked the book. ;)
Except, that rule actually isn't applicable.
Normally, you cannot move through a square occupied by an opponent. The rule is giving you an exception that you can move through an opponent if they are helpless.
If you interpret that as a general rule, then if a Gargantuan creature was squeezing through a 10 foot wide passageway and passed out, you could move through them without penalty. A gargantuan creature's body would completely block a 10 foot wide passage.
It amuses me that it took nearly 20 posts of "there's no rule for it" before someone actually checked the book. ;)Except, that rule actually isn't applicable.
Normally, you cannot move through a square occupied by an opponent. The rule is giving you an exception that you can move through an opponent if they are helpless.
If you interpret that as a general rule, then if a Gargantuan creature was squeezing through a 10 foot wide passageway and passed out, you could move through them without penalty. A gargantuan creature's body would completely block a 10 foot wide passage.
I'm willing to consider "unconscious" and "dead" subsets of "helpless", rules aside.
In more rigorous campaigns, a fallen foe would count as difficult terrain. With the introduction of minis, they are generally removed and subsequently forgotten about until the end of encounter body count is totaled and pillaged.
For whatever it's worth, squares with paralyzed creatures count as two squares for movement purposes.
For whatever it's worth, squares with paralyzed creatures count as two squares for movement purposes.
Which is somewhat amusing, since squares with perfectly healthy creatures count as just one square of movement if they're your allies.
Healthy allies can move out of your way.
In one game, there was a monk whose favourite tactic was called the 'party pile'.
Trip/maneuver every foe in sight into one square, which the alchemist kept bombing and locking down.
At one point I think we had twelve mooks in one pile.
It amuses me that it took nearly 20 posts of "there's no rule for it" before someone actually checked the book. ;)
Welcome to the internet, where laziness reigns over all.