Building a swordmaster with high dpr and high unarmored AC?


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I'm looking to build a lvl 7 samurai-ish type of character that doesn't wear armor, but can get high AC (or DR or negate attacks), but also do really good damage. 20 point buy, all Paizo books allowed, any races allowed.

I thought Kensai would be good, but their attacks are so low from what I could create, so I dunno...

Basically trying to create this guy: http://cghub.com/images/view/304651/ (the small human dude with the sword, NOT the big monster)


Consider duelists, best mixed with samurai or fighter and monk. You easily get insanely high AC, great DPR and have lots of skills due to high int. Int, wis and dex all increase your AC, so you also benefit from all stat enhancers.
Itemwise consider light or no amor, bracers of armor, gloves of dueling and monk robes :-)


No armor with a sword I would take sohei monk


Sohei / Sword Saint / Duelist gets the most potential unarmoured AC, but will probably be difficult if not impossible to make effective by 7th level.

Liberty's Edge

Relying on Dex + Int + Wis sounds like it'd suffer from MAD? I'll check them out though, and see what they're like.

Please keep in mind that I'm also looking to be able to actually dish out damage, which means high +atk and high +dmg. I'm not looking to do barbarian amount of high attacks/damage, but at least comparable to Fighters, since they're capable of high AC/Atk/Dmg as well.


Does it have to be unarmored? The swordlord fighter archetype gets some very good ac bonuses, but can still use armor. You can take a monk level or two for that, I guess.

Also, crane style isn't half bad, and if you dip into the master of many styles monk archetype you can get it quite early.

The magus imo works out later on, but mage armor is all but necessary at the start.


Crane Style.
Racial Heritage: Halfling & Cautious Fighter, Dodge.
2 levels of Master of Many Styles & Monk of the Sacred Mountain, or 4 levels of MOMS & Qui-Gong to get Barkskin.

Can be combined with Aldori Swordlord PRC or Dervish Dance for a dex based build (better AC, worse DPR) or strength based (vice versa).

Sovereign Court

There is a guide to the Aldori Swordlord on the forums.

It is full of AC boosts and uses the crane style chain while doing decent damage. Fighter with Swordlord archetype and monk dip for crane style. Go into the Aldori prestige class at the right level and your solid.
Build comes together around level five.


Coinshot Colton wrote:

Relying on Dex + Int + Wis sounds like it'd suffer from MAD? I'll check them out though, and see what they're like.

Please keep in mind that I'm also looking to be able to actually dish out damage, which means high +atk and high +dmg. I'm not looking to do barbarian amount of high attacks/damage, but at least comparable to Fighters, since they're capable of high AC/Atk/Dmg as well.

That is not what I said. You get BOOSTED by all 3. Read the duelist guide,l and the class, it is one of the few classes that get scaling extra bonuses to damage, thus additional damage boosts besides strength.

You are actually less mad than a fighter, but can still reach higher ACs.
The abilities also fit the stereotypical image of samurai quite well.


As a sample here a replacement character of mine, level 15, WBL level 14. Crafted some magic items himself, thus WBL should be closer to WBL level 15 after all.

Duelleros - Aiding martial 15 (W14 185000)
Male Elf Duelist 7 Fighter (Free Hand Fighter) 4 Monk (Maneuver Master) 4
Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +10; Senses low-light vision; Perception +22
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 42, touch 28, flat-footed 29 (+9 armor, +8 Dex, +5 natural, +4 deflection, +5 dodge)
hp 105 (11d10+4d8+15)
Fort +16, Ref +24, Will +15
Defensive Abilities canny defense +3, elaborate defense +2, evasion, parry; Immune blindness, dazzled
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 Adamantine Shortsword +25/+20/+15 (1d6+12/19-20/x2) and
. . Dagger +22/+17/+12 (1d4+9/19-20/x2) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +22/+17/+12 (1d3+2/x2) and
. . Shortsword +22/+17/+12 (1d6+9/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +22/+17/+12 (1d8+2/x2)
Special Attacks ki strike, magic, precise strike, riposte
Spell-Like Abilities Light (At will)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 26, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 9
Base Atk +14; CMB +17 (+20 Disarming, +19 Grappling); CMD 44 (47 vs. Disarm, 46 vs. Grapple)
Feats Arcane Strike, Bodyguard, Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round), Craft Wondrous Item, Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Power Attack -4/+8, Quick Draw, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), Stunning Fist (6/day) (DC 19), Weapon Finesse
Traits Indomitable Faith, Savannah Child (Knowledge [nature])
Skills Acrobatics +24, Bluff +3 (+4 to feint or create a diversion to hide), Climb +4, Escape Artist +10, Fly +6, Handle Animal +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (engineering) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (nature) +22, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +22, Ride +10, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +18, Stealth +10, Survival +6, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +20; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven
SQ acrobatic charge, deceptive strike +1, elusive +1, enhanced mobility, flurry of maneuvers (1 maneuver, -2), ki defense, ki pool, lightbringer, maneuver defense, maneuver training, reliable maneuver, stunning fist (stun, fatigue), unarmed strike (1d8)
Combat Gear Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day), Wand of Shield; Other Gear Celestial armor, +3 Adamantine Shortsword, Dagger, Shortsword, Amulet of natural armor +5, Belt of incredible dexterity +6, Boots of speed (10 rounds/day), Cloak of resistance +5, Gloves of arcane striking, Handy haversack (empty), Headband of mental prowess (Int & Wis +2) (Spellcr, Ring of feather falling, Ring of protection +4, 1373 GP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) - 0/10
Dagger - 0/1
Feather Fall (Constant) - 0/0
Fly (1/day) - 0/1
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) - 0/1
Ki Pool (Su) - 0/4
Light (Lightbringer) (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Stunning Fist (6/day) (DC 19) - 0/6
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Acrobatic Charge (Ex) You can charge over difficult terrain.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Canny Defense +3 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Duelist level).
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Penalty when fighting defensively reduced to -2 and dodge bonus increases by 1.
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Deceptive Strike +1 (Ex) +1 to Disarm CMB/CMD, Bluff checks to feint or create a diversion to hide.
Elaborate Defense +2 (Ex) +2 AC bonus when fighting defensively / on total defense.
Elusive +1 (Ex) +1 Dodge AC
Enhanced Mobility (Ex) +4 AC vs attacks of opportunity while moving out of a threatened square.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Flurry of Maneuvers (1 maneuver, -2) (Ex) At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in pl
Gloves of arcane striking Arcane strike bonus is added to aid another, and deals splash dam around hit foe.
Immunity to Blindness You are immune to blindness.
Immunity to Dazzled You are immune to the dazzled condition.
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) Activate to negate a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Light (Lightbringer) (At will) (Sp) With Intelligence 10+, cast Light at will.
Lightbringer +1 effective level for [Light] spells and light-based abilities (including spell-like and supernatural abilities).
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Maneuver Defense (Ex) At 3rd level, if a maneuver master has an Improved combat maneuver feat, any creature attempting that maneuver against the maneuver master provokes an attack of opportunity, even if it would not normally do so. This ability replaces still mind.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Mobility +4 to AC against some attacks of opportunity.
Parry (Ex) Forego an attack to defend against enemy attacks.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Precise Strike (Ex) Extra damage when using light / 1-handed Piercing weapons.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Reliable Maneuver (Ex) At 4th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master may spend 1 point from his ki pool before attempting a combat maneuver. He can roll his combat maneuver check for that maneuver twice and use the better result. This ability replaces slow fall
Ring of feather falling Feather fall activates if you fall more than 5 ft.
Riposte (Ex) When you parry an attack, you gain an AoO vs that foe if in reach.
Stunning Fist (6/day) (DC 19) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (1d8) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

This one uses armor, so no monk bonuses. Alternative would be to go for bracers; actually the max dex on celestial already limits him.

The figures above are without any abilities on.
With arcane strike (swift action) damage increases by 4. When he hits, he splashes damage (no save) on adjacent opponents.
When he aids (can be done as attack of opportunity thanks to bodyguard feat) he aids for +5 AC without arcane strike, with arcane strike he increases others' AC by +9.
Alternatively he could spend ki points for AC and other abilities.

When fighting defensively and using crane style attack goes down by 1 but AC increases by 5, plus he always deflects the first attack.
When moving he has +8 AC against attacks of opportunity. With a judicious application of the shield spell from his wand he gets another +4. And with an extra ki he gets another, so without sacrificing offense, presuming he already is in crane style, he has an AC of 63 at -1 attack bonus against movement attacks of opportunity, and an AC of 55 against other attacks.

Finally, he can parry attacks, which is also great.

Offensively he can be much improved, but I went for the aid another part and general utility here :-)


Wait, how do you get arcane strike here - through the light cantrip?


Addendum to my previous post: The character is also geared towards preventing being grappled or disarmed, since even opponents with improved grapple provoke attacks of opportunities. When he hits, it is almost certain they won't succeed at their grapple check :-)

Hope this gives some ideas.


The Shaman wrote:
Wait, how do you get arcane strike here - through the light cantrip?

Yes. Generally I don't like that recent ruling by Paizo that SLAs count for these things, but hey, if it does and I can use it to boost my buddies, why not :-P

Well, this character will never see actual gameplay as long as my Zen Archer refuses to die ;-)


Just as general advice:
If you are going for a more dexterous than strength-focused build check if the agile property or the dervish dance feat are available for you.
Suddenly your dexterity bonus is used for damage bonus calculation, and you furthermore only need a 13 strength in case you want power attack.

That would be an option for the build above, too, and would significantly up its base damage. We don't use those, though...


Sounds like a straight-up monk could work fairly well here. If you're not aware of it: a monk can make all the attacks from his flurry of blows ability with a single monk weapon, which means you can do a flurry of blows wielding a single temple sword in two hands. By RAW, you would still only get your normal strength bonus to damage if you flurry with one weapon in two hands, but you would get the 50% extra power attack bonus.

As for what kind of monk, the strongest option is probably martial artist, as they get some great bonuses to hit and the ability to overcome any type of damage reduction. And as an added bonus, they don't have to be lawful and become immune to fatigue, which makes them ideal for a dip into barbarian. Personally I'd go for 1 level of urban barbarian, combined with the extra rage feat.

If you like the mystic energy feel of the monk (which the martial artist sort of loses) a weapon adept monk is also pretty good. Especially if you can convince your GM to let perfect strike work with a temple sword (just point at the zen archer if anyone claims that's overpowered - they get it with bows). The main benefit compared to the weapon adept is that you get a ki pool, so you can get extra attacks now and then, and you can combine it with the qinggong archetype for the barkskin power, which helps your AC a bit (as the bonus of barkskin increases much more quickly than the bonus you can afford on an amulet of natural armor).

The ability scores I'd go for would be like this:
Str 15+2, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
You could dump your mental stats more to get even higher strength, but I personally like a more balanced character. Also, a dexterity based character would work well for what you want, but not as a monk, as they don't get any good finesseable sword. Also, I like the spare feats you have with a strength build, as well as the 1.5x strength bonus when you make a single standard action attack.
To make sure your AC is ok from the start, you do really need a wand of mage armor. If you have that, your AC will be fine (it will end up about the same as someone in full plate at most levels). And if no-one in your party can use the wand on you, you need to spend a trait to get use magic device as a class skill. Or you could just buy potions, first level spell effects are really cheap anyway, so you will only really notice the cost of buying potions of mage armor for the first few levels.

As for feats, my 1 Urban Barbarian / 6 Martial Artist Monk would probably look like this:
1. Power attack, Extra Rage (human bonus)
2. Dodge (monk bonus), Improved unarmed strike (monk bonus), Stunning fist (monk bonus)
3. Weapon focus, Combat reflexes (monk bonus)
5. Weapon specialization
7. Mantis Style, Improved trip (monk bonus)

If you want more defense, the Crane Style feats are the obvious choice, but personally I wouldn't like to spend so many feats on defense while making my to-hit worse. You could also take Snake Style, which gives a nice defensive ability once per round, but it isn't that great. Personally, I think this character doesn't need more AC, and I like having a few tricks (stunning fist and tripping). Also, remember that you can use the Exploit Weakness ability of the martial artist for more AC when you feel you really need it, and you can also use the barbarian's controlled rage to increase dexterity instead of strength for defensive purposes (or when you need to hit something with a bow).


Is psionic material allowed, btw? The mechanics are available at d20pfsrd.com, and psychic warriors on the ascetic path (especially with a monk dip) can also do a pretty good job.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are high enough level, then pumping your AC without armor is easy (though expensive).

Here's a sample breakdown:

10 Dexterity of thirty
08 bracers of armor
06 +5 buckler
05 amulet of natural armor
05 ring of protection
01 dusty rose prism ioun stone
01 Dodge feat
01 jingasa of the fortunate soldier
47 TOTAL AC

CR 20 monsters only hit you on an 11 or better with their BEST attack. It gets worse for anything less powerful.

I've seen people get MUCH higher without armor.


yeah, you can really make it soar by tacking on combat expertise/fighting defensively bonuses--which most folks who take the crane style line do, monk or magus/duelist's "extra stat to AC (monks also get a flat bonus per level as well)", though you'd have to nix the buckler, and if you REALLY twink your sense motive you can get your "AC" hilariously high via snake style.


Off the top, this can probably get better.

Weapon Master 3 / Master of Many Styles 4 --> Duelist 10 --> Fighter +3

Stats: STR 9 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 14 / WIS 14 / CHA 7, before Racials
Key Trait: The one that adds to luck bonuses
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Pirahna Strike, Dervish Dance, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Crane Riposte
Key Items: Bracers of Armor +2, Ring of Deflection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Jigansa of the Fortunate Soldier

If you can, ditch the Bracers. Instead buy a lesser Rod of Extend for your mage and get Mage Armor cast on you. The bracer rout sits you at AC 24, just under a lazy Full-Plate Fighter (~26 without shenanigans). Mage Armor brings you up to match and frees up some gold. On top of that, you can Fight Defensively for another +4 (-1 to-hit) and negate/counter the first melee attack against you per round.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

how close to the picture do you want to be? also, bear in mind that (generally) any kind of unusual build like this takes time to come together (7 levels may not be enough to build a successful character that fights the way the potentially 20th level guy in the drawing does).

a dervish dance build is probably the way to go. if you really want to use a katana, i think the martial versatility feat should let you do that (though i know there are some who disagree... you'd have to ask your GM). you'll want enough levels of fighter to get wpn spec and weapon training (you'll need to stack as many of those types of bonuses as possible). you'll also want enough levels of urban barb to have a number of rounds/day of (+dex) rage that you feel comfortable with. duelist is a great option- both for the AC boost and the bonus damage. if you're going to be wearing no armor (and keeping a hand free) you really should consider a dip in monk; you can't flurry with a scimitar or katana so master of many styles is a good choice- snake and crane are both solid (and eventually you can use both together).


Here's a build I've been working on, haven't played it yet, dunno how good it is with all the class dips and stuff. Still figuring out feats/traits. I've never played a character past level 6, so I'm not really sure what's needed for later levels. You get a bunch of attacks with your scimitar from flurrying. Level 10 we get 4 attacks, 5 if you spend ki (and we got loads of ki) and then 5-6 at level 12. You also start off with 18 AC unarmored level 1 (look out for being caught flat footed!).

question marks are where i need to add feats. I went conversion inquisition for my domain so I get some social skills. Diety would probably be Sarenrae. 1 Level cleric for crusader's flurry, 1 level fighter so we can actually start dervish dancing level 3 instead of level 5. Once I hit monk level 8 for another flurry attack I went back into fighter so I could pick up gloves of dueling (hence why I went weapon master). I'd probably nab some style feats with the slots I've left open, crane style lets you negate attacks. Can also skip out on the aasimar racial feats for flying (I just really wanted wings!). Might want to get keen on your scimitar instead of waiting till 11 for improved critical.

Since you're starting at level 7 you can totally skip the fighter level and pick up dervish dance at 5 or 7.

I know it's probably not the best character ever but I'd appreciate feedback and advice for making it work!

Casper, the ugly duckling:
8 str 17 dex 13 con 10 int 16 wis 7 cha

Plumekin Aasimar for 19 dex 18 wis
-resistance (5) negative energy, +2 against necromancy, see invis 1/day, darkvision, +2 acrobatics/fly

traits: magical knack (cleric)?, ??

Level 1 weapon’s master Fighter / Level 1 Crusader (conversion inquisition)/ Level 8 Hungry Ghost Monk / 2 fighter / More monk?

1. Monk: combat reflexes (bonus), [weapon finesse]
-Flurry of blows, punishing kick, unarmed strike

2. Fighter: dervish dance (bonus)

3. Crusader: Weapon focus: scimitar (bonus), [crusader’s flurry]
-Lawful good Aura, Channel energy 1d6 1/day, 2 orisons, 1 spell/day

4. Monk: dodge/deflect arrows (bonus), point into dex
-evasion

5. Monk: [piranha strike?]
-Fast movement, maneuver training, still mind

6. Monk:
-Ki pool, barkskin, +1 AC

7. Monk: [angelic blood?]
-Steal Ki,

8. Monk: mobility (bonus)?, point into con
-+10 movespeed

9. Monk: [??]
-Life funnel, BAB +6 (+8 when flurry)

10. Monk
-+1 AC, +1 flurry

11. Fighter: [wings?], improved critical (bonus)?
-weapon guard,

12. Fighter
-weapon training, BAB +9 (11 when flurry = 5 attacks (6 ki))

13-20: ??


Oh you also get high jump or another 4th level ki power at level 7. Shoot lasers with scorching ray for a ranged attack or pick something more useful (though lasers are always useful!).

Liberty's Edge

Oh wow, okay, this is a lot to go through. I'm going through each post and looking up the classes/abilities you guys are talking about one by one, so this will take a while. However, a couple of things:

Duelist:
I really dig this class.

Sohei:
While I do love their high initiative and the ability to always act in a surprise round (reminds me of a Kenshin style fighter), their other abilities are just lackluster. Add in their medium BAB, and I'm ruling this one out for now, unless I see a build that really makes them shine.

Aldori Swordlord:
Been reading the guide on this class, and it's a lot to take in. Seems to be really good, especially if dipping into monk. I like what I'm seeing so far.

Free Hand Fighter:
I like this class a lot too. Dodge bonus that's applicable all the time, and Atk/Dmg bonuses to boot. I like it a lot!

Master of Many Styles:
If going this route, what styles would you pick up other than Crane Style?

Maneuver Master:
The Swordlord guide mentioned dipping into this class for the free disarm attempt, but that doesn't make sense to me. The free disarm attempt comes at a cost of using your monk class instead of BAB to make your CMB check, so if you're only dipping for 1 level, what's the point?

Overall:
I'm only about 1/3 or 1/2 of the way through looking up all the builds that the posts mentioned, but so far it seems like the Duelist or Swordlord with some Monk is the way to go. I'm also looking into the possibility of using Samurai to add some damage, but I'm not sure how worth it that is, will have to see.

I'll write some more once I get a chance to look up everyone else's advice. Thanks so much guys!

UPDATE: Just re-read the Aldori Swordlord, and compared it to the Free Hand Fighter. Both seems great to me.


Coinshot Colton wrote:


Maneuver Master:
The Swordlord guide mentioned dipping into this class for the free disarm attempt, but that doesn't make sense to me. The free disarm attempt comes at a cost of using your monk class instead of BAB to make your CMB check, so if you're only dipping for 1 level, what's the point?

You add your monk class levels instead of your BAB from the monk class. You still add your BAB from other class levels such as fighter to the check. So a level 1 maneuver master monk / level 3 fighter would flurry of maneuvers with a BAB of +4 (+1 monk, +3 fighter) to their CMB check.


Go Weapon Master Fighter 4 (Advanced Players Guide) with your choice of Monk Weapon. This nets you Weapon Training 1 at lvl 3, and allows you to pick up weapon Specialization at 4th. Weapon training can later be buffed with Gloves of Dueling. Then move on with any monk which retains Flury of Blows, as you may add your Fighter BAB to your Flurry of Blows ability (See bolded in spoiler). I prefer Flowing Monk for this, as it nets a buncha badass abilities as well as AC bonuses for fighting near multiple opponents and sets you up for some serious combo attacks with Redirection and Vicious Stomp. Additionally, I'd likely pick up the Crane Style feats for added defense, durability and an extra attack.

Alternatively, you may stay in normal Fighter for an additional level and take Weapon Training; Monk. This would apply to your unarmed strikes and monk weapon.

Flury of Blows:
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so, he may make on additional attack, taking a -2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to use this ability). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, I've looked at this a bit more in-depth now. Here's what I've gathered so far:

Swordlord will net a +2 Dodge bonus and another +2 when they get their lvl 7 ability. However, the tradeoff is that you rely on an Agile sword (unless you wanna really dump some stats), and ironically you also miss out on the Dueling Gloves, of all things.

Free Hand Fighter gets you the +2 Dodge (but not the additional +2 that Swordlord gets), however you can go Dervish Dancer so you don't have to rely on Agile weapon. You also miss out on Dueling Gloves.

Weapon Master misses out on a ton of Dodge bonuses in exchange for being able to go Dervish Dance, and can get the +2 atk/dmg by using Dueling Gloves.

My choice would be Swordlord or Free Hand fighter still, combined with the Crane style chain. I'm still looking into Samurai possibilities for their Challenge ability.


Coinshot Colton wrote:

Okay, I've looked at this a bit more in-depth now. Here's what I've gathered so far:

Swordlord will net a +2 Dodge bonus and another +2 when they get their lvl 7 ability. However, the tradeoff is that you rely on an Agile sword (unless you wanna really dump some stats), and ironically you also miss out on the Dueling Gloves, of all things.

Check out going into the prestige class: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/aldori-swo rdlord

Sovereign Court

In PFS, I had a Free Hand Fighter 8, Aldori Sword Lord PrC 2, Duelist 2. With a +4 Mithral Breastplate and a +3 Ring of Protection, he had a 36 AC. I never felt unhappy about not having Crane Style but I would have liked Monkey Style.

With a +5 sword, he added 25 to his attack roll, before buffs, and did d8+15 damage.

If I did this sort of character again, I would probably use Weapon Master instead of Free Hand Fighter. Going into Duelist via a Dervish Dance Weapon Master is also a possibility.

Another possibility I considered was going into the Aldori Sword Lord PrC by taking a Huntmaster Cavalier 3, Unarmed Fighter 2. After reading this thread, I will look at using a Samurai rather than a Cavalier.

thanks,

Kodger

Liberty's Edge

Ukki wrote:
Check out going into the prestige class: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/aldori-swo rdlord

Looks really good to take after level 7 if going the Swordlord archetype. Will keep it in mind for sure!

At this point the Swordlord archetype is pretty much a lock-in. I'm still debating regarding dipping MoMS for the Wis to AC (and early access to the Crane feat chain), or if I should just wait until later (if ever), since the Swordlord (archetype and the prc) keeps giving bonuses to AC anyway. Alternatively, I also looked into dipping Urban Barbarian instead of Monk to get more AC alongside with more atk/dmg.

Now that that's pretty much set, I'm actually kinda looking at the Kensai again to see if I can go that route. Getting Displacement and Mage Armor, along with all their other spell goodies just seems like it's got a lot of potential. I prefer sustained damage, so I don't care for the Shocking Grasp trick, but getting an extra free attack is always good (spamming Spell Combat with Arcane Mark or Brand through a trait). Biggest issue I have with the Kensai is their attack bonus is way too low. D'oh!


The swordlord prestige class suffers from two problems: a) it requires a lot of feat investment that distracts from getting AC and DPR up and b) it only brings dex to damage online at a time when you could also afford an agile weapon. So unless you really want to make use of dazzling display and disarm, it is not a good choice. If you do, however, be sure to include two levels of order of the cockatrice cavalier.


I think the guy in the picture could b e wearing a mithral shirt under his robe. :)


Yes, the swordlord PrC seems a bit unimpressive when it comes to dealing damage. Mind you, if you want to go duelist with an aldori sword you will likely have to take a few of the same feats as you need dueling mastery to be a duelist with an aldori sword.

Liberty's Edge

jerrys wrote:
I think the guy in the picture could b e wearing a mithral shirt under his robe. :)

Ya know, this is probably a damn good point, lol. Still pretty cool to create an armorless warrior though.

The Shaman wrote:
Yes, the swordlord PrC seems a bit unimpressive when it comes to dealing damage.

Well, at least they have good attack bonuses and will land their hits. Kensai suffers from low attack bonuses, though they can put out good damage, but I'll take accuracy over big damage that might not land. Still trying to work it all out.


It looks like this character wields a katana. Others have made really good suggestions about items; I'd like to present some rough sketches for class progression. If I may make a sort of strange suggestion, I would try a Monk (Qinggong, perhaps another archetype as desired; Hungry Ghost is good, though perhaps not Good; Martial Artist could allow Weapon Specialization) with a level of Cleric, aiming toward Holy Vindicator.

There are a couple of options here. One on which I'm particularly keen is to be a cleric of Shizuru; she opens up Crusader's Flurry (katana) and Guided Hand (if you want to favor Wisdom). As far as domains, Repose's touch attack can be nice on a conductive weapon; none of the others is too great for melee (not for one level, at least), but one could always try an inquisition. If you build for Wisdom, to-hit and AC can both be quite good; Strength will of course admit higher damage at the expense of lower AC.

As far as stats, Wisdom and Strength should be primary (with the attack stat higher), then Constitution, then assign the rest as you wish. One needs Constitution for this build because it will rely on stigmata. Stigmata afford you a bonus of half your Vindicator level to attack, damage, or AC (or caster level checks or saves, but these are less exigent for this build). Thus, you'll be taking some damage each round (this can be mitigated with your own small amount of healing), but you'll have a good source of static damage to add to each hit. When you need to tank up, add stigmata's bonus to your AC instead.

Note also that there's a remarkably cheesy trick involving "wearing" but not "equipping" a buckler, throwing your channel energy into it, and gaining an extra 1 - 5 AC just from that. The wording of the Vindicator's Shield ability is ambagious enough that it would be possible, as a monk, to retain AC bonuses by not using the shield but obtain the sacred bonus. Note that this won't stack with AC from stigmata (same kind of bonus). Given time to buff, there are also cleric spells to add a bit to one's damage and/ or AC.

This build might benefit from conductive weapons and metamagic rods of quicken (to get healing and buffs out when necessary).

Then again, one could just throw Cleric out and go Sohei, flurrying with a nodachi from level 6 (it's basically a big katana, even though it is in the "polearms" group). One would build for Strength as above, and there's nothing wrong with entering a PrC, preferably after level 8 (perhaps Horizon Walker? That character looks like he has to slog through swamps a fair bit ... ).


Coinshot Colton wrote:
jerrys wrote:
I think the guy in the picture could b e wearing a mithral shirt under his robe. :)

Ya know, this is probably a damn good point, lol. Still pretty cool to create an armorless warrior though.

The Shaman wrote:
Yes, the swordlord PrC seems a bit unimpressive when it comes to dealing damage.
Well, at least they have good attack bonuses and will land their hits. Kensai suffers from low attack bonuses, though they can put out good damage, but I'll take accuracy over big damage that might not land. Still trying to work it all out.

between your ability to enchant your weapon on the fly and arcane accuracy you shouldn't have ANY problems hitting. I just played through rise of the runelord anniversary with a plus 1 keen katana and never needed a better weapon or had significant problems hitting for a ton. Wyroort hilt ASAP on a high threat weapon and it keeps you in arcane points.

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