| Xenrac |
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So, someone in an advice thread brought up a build with a Magus using a two handed weapon, and he said Spellstrike could give a Magus, that no longer benefits from Spell Combat, the ability to attack twice at full BAB in one round. I'm certain that he was implying that the Magus could do this with one round of preparation, but I'm not certain he is right. Because I'm uncertain what kind of action a touch attack is.
Say you were to cast a spell with a range of touch, doesn't matter which, but rather than deploying it then, for whatever reason, you Hold the Charge and on your next turn you chose to deliver this touch attack on a single opponent.
I know it's a free action when you cast the spell, and a full round action when you touch six separate targets, but it doesn't specify if those six touches need to be done on willing opponents, or if they can be delivered on the same opponent, or what kind of modifiers apply to these touch attacks (aside from spell dependent ones).
Should they be unarmed strikes?
| Blackstorm |
So, someone in an advice thread brought up a build with a Magus using a two handed weapon, and he said Spellstrike could give a Magus, that no longer benefits from Spell Combat, the ability to attack twice at full BAB in one round. I'm certain that he was implying that the Magus could do this with one round of preparation, but I'm not certain he is right. Because I'm uncertain what kind of action a touch attack is.
Simply put: a touch attack is an attack. So it takes the same time of an attack (unless you refer to the free touch attack granted from casting a touch spell, wich is, in fact, a free attack, but it seems that's not the case).
I know it's a free action when you cast the spell, and a full round action when you touch six separate targets, but it doesn't specify if those six touches need to be done on willing opponents, or if they can be delivered on the same opponent, or what kind of modifiers apply to these touch attacks (aside from spell dependent ones).
No, you cannot touch 6 opponents to deliver your spell like this. I'm prety sure that there's a big thread on that and maybe a FAQ.
| Pupsocket |
I know it's a free action when you cast the spell, and a full round action when you touch six separate targets, but it doesn't specify if those six touches need to be done on willing opponents, or if they can be delivered on the same opponent, or what kind of modifiers apply to these touch attacks (aside from spell dependent ones).Should they be unarmed strikes?
I need the technology to kick other posters friends in the nuts over the internet.
From the Magic chapter, on Touch spells: You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
No person of average or better IQ can argue in good faith that the last sentence applies to attacking enemies.
To get back to the question at hand, "What kind of action is a touch attack?", the answer is, "a touch attack is an attack". When you cast a touch spell, you get a free touch attack. If you're holding the charge of a touch spell, you can use an attack action (the standard action), an AoO, or one of your attacks from a full attack to make a touch attack.
Your two-handing friend, assuming he's fairly low level, can not make two attacks per round if he's tooling around with a two-handed weapon. The Magus ability to attack twice comes from the combination of Spellstrike and Spell Combat.
| Xenrac |
Xenrac wrote:
I know it's a free action when you cast the spell, and a full round action when you touch six separate targets, but it doesn't specify if those six touches need to be done on willing opponents, or if they can be delivered on the same opponent, or what kind of modifiers apply to these touch attacks (aside from spell dependent ones).Should they be unarmed strikes?
I need the technology to kick other posters friends in the nuts over the internet.
From the Magic chapter, on Touch spells: You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
No person of average or better IQ can argue in good faith that the last sentence applies to attacking enemies.
I was most certainly not trying to imply that it was For attacking enemies, I was just genuinely confused and the slight contradiction between the two parts that I just highlighted alongside the utter lack of touch spell rules besides that one (that I could find), lead me to wonder if it WAS intended to be used offensively. Which was weird, didn't seem to jazz with anything else, and wasn't entirely specific and that's why I asked.
That statement was also insulting and uncalled for. Thank you kindly.
To get back to the question at hand, "What kind of action is a touch attack?", the answer is, "a touch attack is an attack". When you cast a touch spell, you get a free touch attack. If you're holding the charge of a touch spell, you can use an attack action (the standard action), an AoO, or one of your attacks from a full attack to make a touch attack.
Thank you for further clarifying something that has already been clarified so that your post that was obviously meant to insult at least appears to have some merit to the discussion.
Your two-handing friend, assuming he's fairly low level, can not make two attacks per round if he's tooling around with a two-handed weapon. The Magus ability to attack twice comes from the combination of Spellstrike and Spell Combat.
Yeah. I know that. He wasn't my friend, he was some over zealous guy in the advice forum that I didn't want to correct if I didn't know with certainty that I was right (God knows why I didn't want to do it there, I do it here all the time, I suppose to me you can be incorrect here because you can have relative certainty that someone will correct you, but you shouldn't give out advice unless you have certainty you are right). I was Right, and I was right for the right reasons, but I was confused on a small gap in the ruleset where I knew there should be a rule, but could not find one, and could not easily deduce one.
So thanks for your generally condescending and insulting post that told me nothing new.
| Umbriere Moonwhisper |
Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:you can spellstrike with arcane mark, which gives you an at will second attack.Okay, now that is intriguing, but nothing I read in Arcane mark says anything that alters the rules for holding a charge. Could you elaborate?
Spell combat requires a free hand, but works with Any Spell
Spellstrike doesn't require a free hand, but it only works with touch spells
they both follow slightly different rules
the spell combat penalties don't apply to spellstrike either
kinevon
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Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:you can spellstrike with arcane mark, which gives you an at will second attack.Okay, now that is intriguing, but nothing I read in Arcane mark says anything that alters the rules for holding a charge. Could you elaborate?
Arcane Mark is a cantrip.
Cantrips can be cast at will.For a Magus with the free hand, they can use Spellstrike & Spell Combat to cast Arcane Mark, and then make their full set of attacks, plus the free melle touch attack through their weapon granted by the touch spell cast.
Note that this won't apply for the TH Magus, since he doesn't have the free hand that Spell COmbat calls for.
With the Close Arcana, the Magus can do the same thing with Ray of Frost, another cantrip, but that would add a minor amount of damage to one of the attacks.